API 1608 vs Tonelux

[TML]

Comparing each company's say... 16 channel config......

Why did you go with the either? Price, expandabilty.... name ?
Thanks,
Tim

[Mike O]

Some questions (there are many others) you may have already answered for yourself. If so disregard.

1. Do you need busses (or ITB)? If no, assign weight toward Tonelux.
2. How big of system do you see yourself eventually exanding to? Compare THAT config to the API with or without the expander.
3. Do you feel comfortable 'designing' your own console? If no, assign weight to the API (or other).
4. Do people in your area know and value the API name?
5. Have you listened to both? Do you have a preference? If so, identify the specific reasons. See 4.
6. Have you priced a Tonelux with a pre, eq, and buss assign on 16 channels w/8 subgroups?
7. There is a lot more 'user' wire in the Tonelux set up. Not necesarrily a bad thing. But are you comfortable with maintaining, adding to it?
8. Have you considered that you could ALWAYS add Tonelux to the API to exand it to whatever you needed.

[Paul EQ]

I personally chose the 1608 for a couple of reasons.

Size - it'll fit in my flat with my outboard, keyboards etc..
I only need 16-20 channels (the 8 buses can become channels).

Sound - Love that API sound.

[RoundBadge]

They both kick ass.

..

[GYang]

Have you checked RND 5088?
In some respects might be easily preferred to both mentioned i.e. groups, choice of classic or LED meterbridges, class A summing path and probably stronger designer's apperance (especially now teamed R.Neve & Hutchinson) with equal or slightly better pricing for similar configuration.
Tonelux wins if you start from small (8 ch or simple 16 ch) and would like to grow with time. On the bigger system they are all similarly competitive.

[Mike O]

Last time I checked the Tonelux was more expensive by a margin IF you have buss assigns on each channel as the API, Neve, and yes Daking (see Avatar) have.

Buying a solution is ALL about your particular needs. YOU may not need buss assigns on each channel (as aluded to in my questions above) and may value, for example, the TX pre or EQ over the API. For me, at least 8 assignable busses is a requirement. But for you? Lot's of 'workarounds' for anything 'missing' on either. What do YOU want to work around?

Roundbade is of course correct, the two YOU asked about are great.

[Dan]

Originally Posted by RoundBadge

They both kick ass.

..

apparently not so much in the monitor section?

[RoundBadge]

Nah,The monitor sections are both fine.
Its just the flexibility of the Avo makes everything a little easier,the remote,the big green knob,etc..especially level matching on the fly..indispensable.
of course it sounds friggin great too.


..

[GYang]

Originally Posted by RoundBadge

Nah,The monitor sections are both fine.
Its just the flexibility of the Avo makes everything a little easier,the remote,the big green knob,etc..especially level matching on the fly..indispensable.
of course it sounds friggin great too.


..

Yea bro, I like Avo, too.
More than any monitoring section anywhere.
BTW when you'll make one good real trial for 5088.
Comparison of slutzs who worked on them all would be first hand value.

[Tube World]

Nothing is better than API for rock n roll.

[C_F_H_13]

Originally Posted by RoundBadge

They both kick ass.

..

I'm not going to lie...I'm pretty jealous of that picture.

[RoundBadge]

Originally Posted by GYang

BTW when you'll make one good real trial for 5088.
Comparison of slutzs who worked on them all would be first hand value.

I did play with it for a bit and. although i wasn't expecting an 8068 it was still sonically a little too clean for my taste.
I'd imagine some of the R & B cats will dig it's open cleaner vibe though

..

[RoundBadge]

Originally Posted by Tube World

Nothing is better than API for rock n roll.

I love API too,but if I could have any console for the rock and could afford to maintain it:
Helios

But thats another dream
..

[TonyBelmont]

Originally Posted by RoundBadge

I love API too,but if I could have any console for the rock and could afford to maintain it:
Helios

But thats another dream
..

Purely for bragging rights, too...

Sound-wise, many of the old Neve and API's will likely sound much better than most of the Helios consoles.

[RoundBadge]

Originally Posted by TonyBelmont

Sound-wise, many of the old Neve and API's will likely sound much better than most of the Helios consoles.

Not a well maintained one.and I'd take it over an A range too.thumbsup
of course its just my personal taste..having been exposed all three on /off for years, I'd still go w/ the Helios based on the sonics.to me its the most musical console I've ever used.
Although around here the Neve/API is a much better sell for clients

But sure Tony everybody loves bragging rights

..

[Silvertone]

Originally Posted by TonyBelmont

Purely for bragging rights, too...

Sound-wise, many of the old Neve and API's will likely sound much better than most of the Helios consoles.

As will Sphere, Electrodynes and older Quad Eights!

If it is a Helios it'd have to be one of the Olympics every one after those paled by comparison (and I do mean by comparison!).

[RoundBadge]

Originally Posted by Silvertone

As will Sphere, Electrodynes and older Quad Eights!

If it is a Helios it'd have to be one of the Olympics every one after those paled by comparison (and I do mean by comparison!).

Well I've got some of the 4 band pre/eqs and have used them alongside the older olympic style[Lustraphones] many times and they seriously sound every bit as sweet as the old ones.


..

[Jack P]

Originally Posted by RoundBadge

Well I've got some of the 4 band pre/eqs and have used them alongside the older olympic style[Lustraphones] many times and they seriously sound every bit as sweet as the old ones.


..

Yeah man ! Love the four band eq's, i have a couple along with Lustraphones 69's & reissue 69's.. They are all amazing to me in different ways.

I would love to own a sidecar like the Clapton console, but maintenance
is too scary for me..

[TonyBelmont]

Originally Posted by Silvertone

As will Sphere, Electrodynes and older Quad Eights!

If it is a Helios it'd have to be one of the Olympics every one after those paled by comparison (and I do mean by comparison!).

Agreed.... plus, they just aren't meant to work outside of the console.

[RoundBadge]

Originally Posted by TonyBelmont

Agreed.... plus, they just aren't meant to work outside of the console.

?
The old Helios modules?
Have you used any lately?
Well neither were Neves,A ranges,etc for that matter yet people rack em all the time
[I also find the old API 312's sound different in a console compared to a lunchbox]
They do work and I use them everyday.
Man they sound phenomenal.nothing better on acoustic guitarsthumbsup

..

[Jack P]

They old ones sound amazing to me just racked up - the new ones are unbalanced so you just put the 2 cables to ground.

I just sold a rack made by Helios in the 70's for outside the console - i have two more for keeps.

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/gears...4-band-eq.html

The Neve's sound different racked up - sometimes better, depending on what
your looking for while tracking.

[TonyBelmont]

Originally Posted by RoundBadge

?
The old Helios modules?
Have you used any lately?
Well neither were Neves,A ranges,etc for that matter yet people rack em all the time
[I also find the old API 312's sound different in a console compared to a lunchbox]
They do work and I use them everyday.
Man they sound phenomenal.nothing better on acoustic guitarsthumbsup

..

Let's preface this with there are many different types of Helios modules and consoles... some of them had three transistor preamps... some of them had seven transistors... some of them even had dreaded IC's (so I've heard). I can't even count the various differences between all of the various Helios modules.... virtually every console had something different (even transformers from various manufacturer's like Beyer, Lustraphone, etc)... ALL of them sound different, and I haven't heard every incarnation of this rather esoteric line. So, when we say Helios, we really aren't talking about one thing or one sound...

They don't all sound great... a handful of them definitely did, but it could be said that some don't sound very good at all (and never did).

Now, the older modules were designed to work in a console... It's not just that they sound different when removed (like a Neve or API for instance), it's that most of them required other parts of the console that were vital to the circuit to work properly (to balance the signal, provide necessary gain, etc).

Ever notice a lot of the old modules have really low output when racked? or are unbalanced? or don't sound good?

If you answered yes to one or more of these questions than you know exactly what I am talking about.

If you still think they sound good , then that's great... But, I'll take a Neve 1073 over most racked Helios modules.

[Silvertone]

Originally Posted by RoundBadge

Well I've got some of the 4 band pre/eqs and have used them alongside the older olympic style[Lustraphones] many times and they seriously sound every bit as sweet as the old ones.


..

Don't get me wrong Roundbadge (btw I have a '64 canary satin swirl set that Tito Puente's drummer sold me years ago for 150.00 and threw in a D12E while I was walking out the door), there were other incarnations I liked very much of the Helios console. Joe Demeao's (Shorefire Studios, NJ) "Brownie" console for instance, the last Helios made but a good half of the 11 different console modules we listened to didn't sound very good in my opinion. Some were actually really bad sounding. Leons console for instance.

I agree that I'd love to have a few pre-amps and EQ's myself. I actually just sold my Helios F700 compressor from the Rolling Stones Remote console to David Kean just so he could put that console back together whole! Trust me that I could have got twice as much for it... and if I held on to it, way more even. However I'm just as happy to know that the console is back and whole. This is way more important to me then anything.

Since there are less than 25 in tact Sphere consoles left, I am on a crusade to keep them all together as well.

Hey at least there are still about 45 of the 50 or so Helios consoles still in tact.

Anyway Tonelux or API, I don't think you could go wrong with either, Both are made very very well.

I just find that there are still bargins in the older console out there... for half the money you can get almost twice the console if you know how to shop and where to look (oh and have a bit of patience).

[RoundBadge]

Originally Posted by TonyBelmont

Let's preface this with there are many different types of Helios modules and consoles... some of them had three transistor preamps... some of them had seven transistors... some of them even had dreaded IC's (so I've heard). I can't even count the various differences between all of the various Helios modules.... virtually every console had something different (even transformers from various manufacturer's like Beyer, Lustraphone, etc)... ALL of them sound different, and I haven't heard every incarnation of this rather esoteric line. So, when we say Helios, we really aren't talking about one thing or one sound...

They don't all sound great... a handful of them definitely did, but it could be said that some don't sound very good at all (and never did).

Now, the older modules were designed to work in a console... It's not just that they sound different when removed (like a Neve or API for instance), it's that most of them required other parts of the console that were vital to the circuit to work properly (to balance the signal, provide necessary gain, etc).

Ever notice a lot of the old modules have really low output when racked? or are unbalanced? or don't sound good?

If you answered yes to one or more of these questions than you know exactly what I am talking about.

If you still think they sound good , then that's great... But, I'll take a Neve 1073 over most racked Helios modules.

I'm not saying they all sound the same
no argument there...I get what your saying Tony and believe me, I've had some different modules...original black 69's and the reissues [which ironically they initially weren't racked properly.. i sold]and I've heard different modules sounding different and lower level[like the reissues],
but some work great out of the console and I've got a rack of 1073/84's to compare to...Sure I still love the Neves,but the Helios have a really cool musical vibe..thumbsup


..

[jho]

API
Ours has fifty-two 500-series expansion slots !

[TML]

Seems to me that API's track record.... 500 series modules....mix and match (hopefully they do?) it's a winner.....the Tonelux.... you gotta build it like a Lego set. Trying to lean in one direction...
Tim

[RoundBadge]

Originally Posted by TML

Seems to me that API's track record.... 500 series modules....mix and match (hopefully they do?)

Lots of fun new modules out there and more coming.pretty cool.
I'm doing all weird stuff on my spare slots[Filistortion,Level-Or.etc]
Good times.

Get Demos of both rigs if you can.
They're both top notch.
it just really comes down to your personal taste and requirements

..

[TML]

Round-
I'm thinking a board again. My clent base is seems to be getting into live... no click recording. Punch mistakes later.. add vocals later. I'm not sure if it's the industry... the new indie rock buzz or just plain budgets. I need to simplify my workflow. I love my Avalon/Neve/Daking/Tubetech etc... but you know... get me a nice demensional clean signal... and I'll make it anything after the fact. The direction of the 500 series stuff eliminates all of the other manufactures for me. I'm looking for a setup for say.. the typical 4 piece rock band... gonna use the busses or aux sends for headphones.... and would sum back into the board.
Tim

[Mind-Over-Midi]

Originally Posted by jho

API
Ours has fifty-two 500-series expansion slots !

[Tetness]

Originally Posted by jho

API
Ours has fifty-two 500-series expansion slots !

Could you take a couple more pictures, different angles?