Yamaha Studio Connections Initiative

[robdarling]

Chris, I know you are the moderator, but that is an enormously heavy-handed response to what is in fact a very exciting thing. I in fact have never seen a post shut down in so un-warranted a fashion. You may not like midi, but come on- haven't you every had to dynamically contol an Eventide? Ever try to have a decay time on a reverb shrink on each hit? Ever try to change pitch shifter values when the song goes to a modulation? It is a pita to learn and sift through control values. And now we can do it easily.

You really might want to rethink your response, at least talk to other moderators, and please open the thread back up.

[Eddie Kish]

Its not shut down. . Just moved to the proper place. There is nothing high end about midi

[robdarling]

Really, there's nothing high end about using midi? Then why does every single high end effects processor have a midi jack on it? It is is a control protocol, that is it. Sending program changes to outboard is about as high end tweakhead as it gets- go talk to Flood or Trevor Horn and ask them if this wouldn't make life a little better. Ask someone like Michael Wagener how they control a Harmonizer to pitch shift vocals note by note. Midi, baby. This entire conversation shows how important an update this protocol is. There is a huge world of power and creativity in a lot of equipment that is never used because it is a pita and doesn't fit easily into a fast creative flow.

[Eddie Kish]

I cant tell you why all this high end gear has midi on the back. Its a good question. It never works properly or as advertised. I've connected a bunch of gear this way with the expectation of being able to make program changes and load presets with sessions, and its spotty at best. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesnt. Midi doesnt need an update, it needs a complete overhall or replacement. There is nothing solid or pro about it.

[robdarling]

Eddie-

Just because you can't make it work doesn't mean that it doesn't work. And, by the way, you've just made my point. Data control is currently overcomplicated and this system will make it a thousand times easier to implement what is a very powerful control set that is enormously underused.

You say you've tried a number of times. It means the result is what you want- easy control and recall. Now someone puts it on a platter for you and you say it's useless. This is exactly the kind of experience that I know many people have had with midi control of outboard and exactly the thing I am excited to see disappear.

[robdarling]

Here's a scecario that even the most un-midi of engineers can appreciate.

It is eight in the morning at the end of a mix, with the next client barking at the door, and you are sweating bullets because you know the label will be recalling this mix. In a fit of detail orientation, you've super-edited patches in the Eventide and 480. You look at the very sweaty, very tired-looking assistant and realize that you should stand over their shoulder and personally make sure that every parameter is recalled, but your brain is so fried and tired after printing 15 passes that you're not sure if you can even remember all the pages you were tweaking. Oh, and maybe this is happening on a piece of rental gear and they don't even have a recall sheet for it.

Not a high-end scenario? If I owned a high-end facility, I'd cream my jeans over the possiblity of being able to avoid such problems.

[Eddie Kish]

You are right. If that would work it would be great. The problem is I cant see it happening. I've tried to do exactly what you are proposing, and after many frustrating nights, I've determined that it doesnt work. At least not on the Lexicons and TC units that I use. The problem is not a fancy front end to this either.They way the midi is implimented doesnt like to work that way. (at least for me). I can get it to change presets but not change the parameters of a preset without saving it as a new preset and loading that. I could be wrong, but I would have to see this working and being 100% solid before I got excited about it.The next problem I see is Yamaha being involved. I had 2 O2Rs and used the Studio Manager program, which they had stopped making and I had to buy from a company called Zeep. It worked, but was a little clunky and poorly implimented. IMHO.
I may rethink my position on this but after looking at the website I still dont have much confidence in it.

[robdarling]

Eddie, I can completely understand your doubt- this history of midi implementation is filled with horror stories. But the goal is still a holy grail studio users have sought for a long time. And if it were just Yamaha doing this, I wouldn't waste my breath. But with Steinberg involved, my hopes are much higher. It is guaranteed to be buggy for the first run but will then run like a charm. And given the amazing history of both companies in developing open standards, this really stands a chance of being a strong addition to the studio arsenal.

r.

[C.Lambrechts]

software it is ... and there is a dedicated section on this board just for that.

[mwagener]

Originally posted by robdarling
... Ask someone like Michael Wagener how they control a Harmonizer to pitch shift vocals note by note. Midi, baby. ...

Rob, I hate to disappoint you, but I have never used MIDI for anything but recording keyboards into a sequencer and linking different keyboards/soundmodules together, and in my world Keyboards make a rare appearance.

I have never used MIDI on a Harmonizer to pitch shift vocals note by note, nor do I use MIDI to control "ANYTHING" in my studio. I do not even have ProTools, for the simple reason that I don't agree with the way it's being used by engineers to "perform" music, rather than let the musicaian perform, MIDI falls into the same category for me. If it works for you, great.

I've messed around with MIDI time code to synchronize computer/sequencers to my R-1 and everytime have gained a bunch of gray hairs over the process, it's just not exact enough. If I don't have to use MIDI, I stay as far as possible away from it.

As for documenting your 480 or Eventide box, just get a storage card, takes just a couple of seconds and is way more reliable than MIDI or the sweating assistant.

IMO Chris did nothing wrong by moving your thread to the appropriate place. His dislike of MIDI and his actions with your thread have nothing to do with each other. In any case it's no big deal, your thread is still there, just in the proper place, I wouldn't lose any sleep over it.