neve sidecar or external mic pres??

[kurtr2]

hi all,

i wonder if someone could help me out with some advice:
i am looking to invest in analog front end for my daw and i'm not sure what would be the best direction.

i found a mint condition neve 542 board for 5k. thats 8 channels mic pre/eq and 2 busses. its configured for direct channel outputs on 6 channels.

but i am also considering perhaps getting two stereo outboard mic pre's- say one stereo Helios pre/eq and two Tab/Funkenworks v78 mono pre's.

i will be recording a small jazz quartet and also for fattening up synths and samples.

how much maintenence do these neve boards usually need?
how are these mic pre's (34128)?

more context:
i am upgrading my professional home studio from a g4-g5, 2408mk2- 2408mk 3 with the 424 card, thereby using zero latency monitoring and getting rid of my yamaha o1v. i have two apogee trak 2's and a lucid 2496 AD. the apogees go DA to a dangerous 2bus for external summing. i'm going to get a pair of Adam P22 monitors, a tube tech LCA-2B (recently mixed a record with that on the 2bus, on most songs it beat out the ssl compressor), a few mics and 4+ channels of mic pre. thats where i'm not sure where to go.

any advice would be much appreciated.
thanks,
kurt

[TonyBelmont]

Well, since you already have a backend setup... I would spend the $5k on a GTQ2mkIII, and an API 3124+!!!!

That would give you 6 channels of incredible mic preamps that will piss on the dfegad 34128 pre's.

[TonyBelmont]

Actually the 34128 preamps aren't that bad.... But, they aren't what someone would expect from something in the "Neve" family of products... It's basically a small input transformer feeding a 5534 if I'm not mistaken. You could post a question about the preamps on GeoffT's site.....

http://www.auroraaudio.net/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboard.cgi

[kurtr2]

thanks,

what do you think about the helios pre's?
how about the tab/funkenworks?
do you like these GTQ2mkIII's better than the chandler LTD-1?

as long as i have great sounds going to "tape" (disk) then i am happy mixing in the computer and sending to outboard gear as needed. then will sum using the dangerous 2bus, which by the way has made a huge difference for me on my last record. we had high track counts (40-70) and the 2bus enabled us to split up the daw busses, thereby allowing more level and bit resolution per track. the sonic difference was really incredible. initially we mixed a few tunes without it, always pulling down faders so as not to overload the bus. after i bought it we plugged it in and reassigned the daw outputs and pushed the faders up. it sounded SO much better. very dramatic difference.

anyway thanks for the input
kurt

[MIKEHARRIS]

Now for something completely different...CraneSong Spider....pres...mixer...a to d....

[TonyBelmont]

Originally posted by kurtr2
thanks,

what do you think about the helios pre's?
how about the tab/funkenworks?
do you like these GTQ2mkIII's better than the chandler LTD-1?

as long as i have great sounds going to "tape" (disk) then i am happy mixing in the computer and sending to outboard gear as needed. then will sum using the dangerous 2bus, which by the way has made a huge difference for me on my last record. we had high track counts (40-70) and the 2bus enabled us to split up the daw busses, thereby allowing more level and bit resolution per track. the sonic difference was really incredible. initially we mixed a few tunes without it, always pulling down faders so as not to overload the bus. after i bought it we plugged it in and reassigned the daw outputs and pushed the faders up. it sounded SO much better. very dramatic difference.

anyway thanks for the input
kurt

I haven't any experience with the new Helios or TAB stuff, so I can't comment on that. I'm sure it's quality stuff. Call Fletcher at Mercenary, and he can send you a TAB unit to try out. I think Vintage King sells the Helios stuff, so you could give them a call for a demo...

If you don't already have any Neve flavor in your life, then I would grab the GTQ2mkIII first! It's 2 channels for just a little more money than one channel of LTD-1 with power supply. It sounds amazing, but if you want more EQ points, than the LTD-1 would be the better choice (you will sacrifice a channel worth of pre's and eq's for those additional frequency choices). This is the High End forum, so you will have to buy all of these eventually.....

If I had $5k to spend on pre's. I would buy the GTQ and an API3124+.....

[Seamus TM]

Oh... if you've got the Dangerous thing, then you're set. I just prefer to mix/sum on a desk for routing and things like EQ and panning.

I don't know about the Helios stuff, or the "new" Telefunken stuff, but I LOVE everything from Telefunken/TAB/Siemens that I've used. Amazing price/performance. Tube or SS.
I've got a Chandler TG2 and I love it.
I'll second the API 3124+

Just get a vertical rack full of Telefunken V676's.
Speaking of vertical racks... Seventh Circle is making some great stuff.

[kurtr2]

how about Marquette Audio Labs? check this out: pricing is under 3k for the 4 channel unit! (?)

http://www.marquetteaudiolabs.com/telefunk.html

or:

http://www.mercenaryaudio.com/amitav.html

im hearing Chandler LTD-1 over Aurora Audio GTQ2
. anyone care to weigh in?

[Seamus TM]

Marquette does great work, I hear. I think the under $3k was for a pair of V72's, though (which are tube... and pretty damn smokin).... personally, I wouldn't pay someone that much to do the mods. The V72 raw modules go for about $600. The V676 (ss w/ variable gain already) go for about $300 for raw modules. Again, it's REALLY not that hard, if you have someone who knows a bit about the stuff and can read a schem.

I don't know about the LTD1. That's Chandler's "Neve," I think. The TG2 is the one I have and like....
API 3124+ is kind of a no brainer, to be honest.
Seventh Circle is something to look in to.

Hope I helped a little!

[jb_studio]

Mr. Belmont,

Hmmm....

You say that the 34128 pre's are "not that bad" and that all these other pre's will piss all over them?

Well, I find that very interesting, since you sold me a Neve 54 console that was chock full of them and told me it sounded "great"!!

What happened, your 'vintage' Neve stock is running low and you've got a room full of GTQ2's to sell?

FWIW, I like the 34128 pre's very much. But you're still a punk

-- JB

[TonyBelmont]

Originally posted by jb_studio
Mr. Belmont,

Hmmm....

You say that the 34128 pre's are "not that bad" and that all these other pre's will piss all over them?

Well, I find that very interesting, since you sold me a Neve 54 console that was chock full of them and told me it sounded "great"!!

What happened, your 'vintage' Neve stock is running low and you've got a room full of GTQ2's to sell?

FWIW, I like the 34128 pre's very much. But you're still a punk

-- JB

HaHaHa!!

JB you funny mutha****ah! What took you so long to chime in? I was waiting for either you or GeoffT to come to the rescue of the 54 series.. The 34128's aren't that bad, especially the one's in the console you have. JB's 16 channel console has had a full IC and power supply upgrade by Coleman Rogers and sounds a lot better than the stock 54 series. But, the 34128's while decent and very usable can't hold a candle to a GTQ or API (even an upgraded 34128)! That console you have, as you know, does sound great (especially for the money)! And it makes a really nice backend. I would recommend Kurt to buy your Neve console. But, since I know you love it and won't part with it, I would go with the killer outboard pre's for his application!

BTW, our vintage Neve stock is as big as ever, and I wish I had a room full of GTQ2's!

[Geoff_T]

Originally posted by TonyBelmont
Actually the 34128 preamps aren't that bad.... But, they aren't what someone would expect from something in the "Neve" family of products... It's basically a small input transformer feeding a 5534 if I'm not mistaken. You could post a question about the preamps on GeoffT's site.....

http://www.auroraaudio.net/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboard.cgi

Hi

Early 34128's are the best... later versions had a very microphonic Belclere input transformer (picked up noise of tapping the module or rotating the gain switch) and the fix was to turn it upside down, connect with long wires (rather than direct into the board), and mount the transformer in a steel cradle wrapped in foam that goes moldy eventually. It fixed the problem but I never understood why QC at Neve didn't tell the transformer manufacturer to make them so that they weren't microphonic.... too obvious, I suppose...

Anyway, I like 54's... they may be IC based (so what's new?) and sound nothing like a 1073... but they are great little consoles and sound pretty darn good. Performance wise, line up the competitors...

Transformer balanced inputs and outputs?
90dB mic gain (ribbons no problem)?
40dB pre-fade headroom, 24dB post fade headroom?
3 band EQ with inductor based mids?
P & G faders, Sifam meters?
Build by Neve?

No contest!

[kurtr2]

interesting.

what year range are the old 54's with the non microphonic buttons?

how would compare then, say:

neve 54 console

with

two Tab/Funkenworks V87 mic pre's
two Tab Funkenworks V71 d.i. box
API 3124

i am leaning towards the latter direction- more variety, probably more reliability (new equipment with warranties), you really know what you are getting, etc.

the neve has eq's going for it, the fact its a mixer is very attractive and useful especially if the board is configured for channel outs. also it looks so damn cool!

hmmmm now im leaning back again to the neve, damn, tough decision. someone please help me.

the other way i could go is something from Marquette Labs or Seventh Circle (assembled) seems like good bang for buck and i've heard good reviews of both companies.

although i have heard people really bash Marquette. anybody know why?? i have seen both very positive and very negative things, but nothing specific...

thanks for all the help everyone.

kurt

[Geoff_T]

Hi

I'm sorry... I haven't a clue how a 54 compares to other makes of amplifier paths as I have no experience of the units you mentioned. Other folk are far more qualified to comment...

The date of the change-over to the foam mounted transformers wouldn't help you as Neve consoles have no manufacture date on them. It's a case of pulling the module out and looking.

The fix I mentioned did eliminate the microphony and the only thing I would check is the state of the foam mount... it's just a piece of packing foam wrapped around the transformer. If it's shrivelled and gone moldy it can easily be replaced.

[kurtr2]

ok, so it shouldn't deter me from buying the unit even if it does have that microphonic condition?...

thanks,
kurt

[Geoff_T]

Originally posted by kurtr2
ok, so it shouldn't deter me from buying the unit even if it does have that microphonic condition?...

thanks,
kurt

Hi Kurt

No, you shouldn't be detered... I posted that info so that the reader had the opportunity of checking the state of the foam.

In all probability the console may be one of the early ones without the need for the foam.

[neve1073]

Originally Posted by Geoff_T

Hi

Early 34128's are the best... later versions had a very microphonic Belclere input transformer (picked up noise of tapping the module or rotating the gain switch) and the fix was to turn it upside down, connect with long wires (rather than direct into the board), and mount the transformer in a steel cradle wrapped in foam that goes moldy eventually. It fixed the problem but I never understood why QC at Neve didn't tell the transformer manufacturer to make them so that they weren't microphonic.... too obvious, I suppose...

Anyway, I like 54's... they may be IC based (so what's new?) and sound nothing like a 1073... but they are great little consoles and sound pretty darn good. Performance wise, line up the competitors...

Transformer balanced inputs and outputs?
90dB mic gain (ribbons no problem)?
40dB pre-fade headroom, 24dB post fade headroom?
3 band EQ with inductor based mids?
P & G faders, Sifam meters?
Build by Neve?

No contest!

What a great thread! Just what I was searching for.

I just toured a studio where I may do some work which uses a Neve 34128 sidecar as its primary outboard preamps. I was a tad skeptical when someone told me it was similar to the 1073, but I'm pretty sure they'll do a fine job. We listened to a drumkit tracked thru it. Sounded fine.

[haikusoftruth]

Originally Posted by jb_studio

Mr. Belmont,

Hmmm....

You say that the 34128 pre's are "not that bad" and that all these other pre's will piss all over them?

Well, I find that very interesting, since you sold me a Neve 54 console that was chock full of them and told me it sounded "great"!!

What happened, your 'vintage' Neve stock is running low and you've got a room full of GTQ2's to sell?

FWIW, I like the 34128 pre's very much. But you're still a punk

-- JB

Pimped red handed...