Help! Help! Help! Duality Or 9k?????

[bforest4]

I would definitely go Duality, way less hassle, don't have to deal with the external machine room, high energy bills(power and way higher air conditioning bill). Remember that duality is also a nice controller for your DAW, which the 9K isn't. I think it looks killer with all the Displays, and you will be able to get it serviced and supported by SSL. Also, you can have several people doing a recall at once on the Duality using the different screens for each of the buckets. Definitely my dream console!

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by JASON GARTE

However, everyone who walks in complains about the lack of an analog board and now we're lookin for one.

I'm sitting here at 1am on a Friday after a week of back and forth between 7 different used 9ks, from 5 brokers, and a Duality and I REALLY have NO FRIGGIN IDEA which way to go.

On the one hand most Hip Hop guys down here LOVE the 9K, they're used to it. They LOVE the headroom and love to SLAM the hell out of it to achieve that sound they're after.

To let the whims of clients decide what to put in a studio especially something this significant is a road to financial suicide.

I would ask them if they are willing to pay double or triple for the same room with an SSL console. Are they willing to pay a day rate to use it? Are they willing to pay extra for a qualified engineer?

If their answer is no than there is your answer.

Originally Posted by JASON GARTE

But... I am REALLY impressed by the Duality and what it can do. Also, as I'm just breaking into this biz, I don't want a large format console's energy bill on my tab in addition to everything else, and my room being a DCOMMAND/HD rig is not set up for a J/G/K because:

Are you asking about a 9000K or 9000J?

If its a 9000J i would choose the Duality. If its a 9000K i would choose the 9000K and take the hit with the electric.

[Weasel9992]

Originally Posted by thethrillfactor

To let the whims of clients decide what to put in a studio especially something this significant is a road to financial suicide.

I would ask them if they are willing to pay double or triple for the same room with an SSL console. Are they willing to pay a day rate to use it? Are they willing to pay extra for a qualified engineer?

If their answer is no than there is your answer.

Wow. That's actually really, really good advice.

Frank

[pw8888]

4k....ooopps what did i say.....

[delcosmos]

Duality!

[Tibbon]

I guess a 4056G+ gets no love?

I'd still just love to have a 4056 with a Protools rig and a 16 track 2" Studer rolling mixing to tape. Sounds like fun to me anyway. Then again, I'd also be really happy with a 16 input board and a 8-track 2".

I'd go with the 9. In the long run you'll have high maintence costs either way.

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by Tibbon

I'd go with the 9. In the long run you'll have high maintence costs either way.

Yeah but with the Duality your electric bill would be half. Not to mention finding parts.

Also if you have some tech skills you can easily keep your 4056G+ running until you needed serious help. A 9000 console is a different story. But the recall on the 4056G+ is a bitch, not to mention calibrating the moving faders a couple of times a year.

Also it doesn't have the small moving faders which the 9000's do and the Duality doesn't.

For my own personal place i would choose the Neve 88RS but i would be the only client.

[psycho_monkey]

from your situation, I'd say the duality was the clear winner.

If your clients were crying for a G series...then no. But j is the worst of both worlds (all the disadvantages of a G, but won't appeal to those who specifically want to mix on a G, and none of the practicalities of the Duality), and the K, whilst it might be cool, is going to be a lot more hassle - unless you've got lots of potential clients who would book the room with a K in it but not with anything else.

[Mr. Man]

I know you want to go analogue… but just out of curiosity have you thought about the digital SSL C200?

What were your thoughts against going for a digital console in your studio, especially when you already have an ICON?

[Tibbon]

Originally Posted by thethrillfactor

Yeah but with the Duality your electric bill would be half. Not to mention finding parts.

Also if you have some tech skills you can easily keep your 4056G+ running until you needed serious help. A 9000 console is a different story. But the recall on the 4056G+ is a bitch, not to mention calibrating the moving faders a couple of times a year.

Also it doesn't have the small moving faders which the 9000's do and the Duality doesn't.

For my own personal place i would choose the Neve 88RS but i would be the only client.

Damn good points

[jasound]

The studio I work at just faced the same question about 6 months ago. After looking for two years at used ssl's (mostly 4000 g series) we decided to get the duality. It has been a really great choice for us. Our situation is a little different from yours. Our studio is 100% in house projects, no outside engineers/ producers to contend with. I will say the learning curve on the duality is not too bad especially if you've worked on ssl's before. The automation is the easiest ssl automation system they've ever put out.

Somethings to think about. The headroom on 9000 is greater. I'm not very techy but from what I understand this is because the internal power supply. Honestly, this is not a really big deal. This console rocks and sounds big. The console does put off more heat than your controller. We had to install an extra ac unit but this is nothing compared to what a 9j or 4g would have been like. Also... unless you get the attached patchbay, the duality does have a whole lot of cabling. You may still have to rip your floor out. Another weird observation, the duality seems to be a little more fragile than older ssl's. This is not a issue for us since we are the only users, but it's something you should think about when imagining your clients working there. We haven't had any problems but the console's frame and overall construction is not as robust as older ssl's.

How are the techs in Miami? If there isn't a great ssl tech there than I would rule out a 4000 immediately. These beasts do go down and you will need a reliable tech to work on them at a moments notice. And parts for these older desks are much harder to find. Since I'm talking tech... the support people at ssl are awesome! You can tell they really care about making their clients happy and they go above and beyond to fix issues when they come up.

Now cost... the duality is expensive but it is a lot less expensive than the 4000 or 9000 were when they were new. When we were looking at 4000 we found a 4064 I think in the neighborhood of $60-$70k (if memory serves) The duality is more than three times this (as I am sure you are well aware of by now

All that being said, we chose the duality and couldn't be more happy. We are finding new things this console does all the time. It sounds great and is very easy to use. We are making better records as a result. The ease of backing up mixes straight to the studio computer is great and convenient. Gone are the days of boxes of floppy disks. We don't really do any surround, but for a commercial facility this might be a selling feature.

Hope this helps

[Dan]

So let me get this straight, people working in your studio are complaining about the lack of an analog console, but still working in your studio? Are there no 9000's, or duality consoles in Miami?

Seems like you could have a false problem on your hands. But I don't know, big SSLs seem like a good way to not make money, but that's just one guys perspective, in a different market. I've faced similar decisions, and just couldn't make it work. It's too hard to charge a price that is reflective of the costs involved.
That being said, there is one studio in this town (Dallas) that's made a 9000J work for them, and they might be in a situation more similar to yours. I still get the sense that the rooms with the C24, and the pro-control are actually more profitable for them. That's just outside speculation though.
I'd probably go with a Legacy Plus, if I had to get a big console. I don't think I will in the near future.

FWIW, I'd rather work in a room with an ICON, than a duality, but I'm not your customer.

[JASON GARTE]

Hey guys. Thank you all so VERY much for all of the GREAT advice. We actually did some polling around and decided on the Duality as well. I think that all of the options mentioned have both pro's and con's, but in the end Duality wins it for me.

Please keep any additional feedback coming and lookout in about three weeks for some pics as we begin delivery on the console.

Thanks again...

Jason

(NERVOUS , ANXIOUS , and HOPEFUL )