Metric Halo

[peeder]

Originally Posted by henryrobinett

Perhaps I miss-spoke. The clock is greatly improved which improves the performance of the converter. No?

A better crystal can improve accuracy and dynamic range...though the SNR specs remain a somewhat dated 110db on the ADC side and a nice 120db on the DAC side. Of course that may be due to the preamps in the signal path (though they ought to measure from the insert return I'd think...they don't say).

I'm sure their converters are a good deal but I was hoping for more than a new crystal in this product bump. I've never heard these units before or after this bump so I don't really know where they stand.

[henryrobinett]

Originally Posted by splitbrain

There was a discussion about some modifications to the preamps in the 2882 2d, so I wrote to MH, and here´s the reply:

Dear Timo,
Thanks for your email. There is no preamp modification option available for the 2882.
We have the Jensen Transformer option available for the ULN-2 described on our web site here:
http://www.mhlabs.com/metric_halo/UL...erOption.shtml
Space restrictions inside the box do not allow this option for the 2882.
Please let me know if I can help with anything else.
Best regards,
Jon Stern
Metric Halo Support

That's contrary too what BJ told me a year or so ago. I'll clarify this.

[henryrobinett]

Originally Posted by peeder

A better crystal can improve accuracy and dynamic range...though the SNR specs remain a somewhat dated 110db on the ADC side and a nice 120db on the DAC side. Of course that may be due to the preamps in the signal path (though they ought to measure from the insert return I'd think...they don't say).

I'm sure their converters are a good deal but I was hoping for more than a new crystal in this product bump. I've never heard these units before or after this bump so I don't really know where they stand.

The converters are very good.

[macleodgrant]

Originally Posted by peeder

sure their converters are a good deal but I was hoping for more than a new crystal in this product bump. I've never heard these units before or after this bump so I don't really know where they stand.

i guess for that to happen they would need to upgrade more than just the card. i guess they wanted to make their existing customer base feel like they have a quality unit that stands the test of time

i'm debating this one heavily - it's now between the 2882 and the Aurora 8

now which one is the question!!!!!

[peeder]

I woulda liked 8-channel S/MUX too (so I could do 96K with 8 or 10 external converters plus the internals). I guess I could put a ProFire Lightbridge or something alongside one of these in an aggregate device. Though that might eat a PCIe slot due to Firewire bandwidth concerns.

Again I wonder if these i/o would be recognized by Pro Tools somehow. Perhaps as a plugin? Do you think Digi would allow a competing hardware vendor to hack into Pro Tools via a plugin interface? They have absolute fiat over RTAS afaik. They might have told FXpansion that they'd only support the VST wrapper if it wasn't used to circumvent the Iron Grip.

[Fredrik]

Would this new update allow hardware inserts since it seems that everything is aligned in the box itself before it enters the da?

[henryrobinett]

I regularly insert PCM 91 and even a Rev7. Peavy VC/L-2 and Millennia pres. What inserts are you talkin' 'about?

[Fredrik]

Originally Posted by henryrobinett

I regularly insert PCM 91 and even a Rev7. Peavy VC/L-2 and Millennia pres. What inserts are you talkin' 'about?

Any type of insert I guess, as long as the signal leaves the interface and takes an extra roundtrip through the ad/da. I think this looks like a fantastic update. I don´t own any metric halo boxes but have always been curious about them.

[Riccardo]

Originally Posted by peeder

I woulda liked 8-channel S/MUX too (so I could do 96K with 8 or 10 external converters plus the internals). I guess I could put a ProFire Lightbridge or something alongside one of these in an aggregate device. Though that might eat a PCIe slot due to Firewire bandwidth concerns.

Again I wonder if these i/o would be recognized by Pro Tools somehow. Perhaps as a plugin? Do you think Digi would allow a competing hardware vendor to hack into Pro Tools via a plugin interface? They have absolute fiat over RTAS afaik. They might have told FXpansion that they'd only support the VST wrapper if it wasn't used to circumvent the Iron Grip.

We use the 2882 when we need extra i/o for PTHD hooked up via ADAT to one of the 192. MIO console connect plug in via RTAS.

[thermos]

Originally Posted by macleodgrant

i guess for that to happen they would need to upgrade more than just the card. i guess they wanted to make their existing customer base feel like they have a quality unit that stands the test of time

i'm debating this one heavily - it's now between the 2882 and the Aurora 8

now which one is the question!!!!!

Aurora 8 smokes it. Sorry guys.......

I've said this before, I had serious headroom problems with the A/D for some reason. I thought the D/A in the 2882 was great, but the A/D didn't quite measure up to me. The Aurora 8 is much better in terms of both A/D and D/A.

Very cool that they are doing this. I'd love to hear those plugs as standalone.

[jslevin]

Originally Posted by peeder

I woulda liked 8-channel S/MUX too (so I could do 96K with 8 or 10 external converters plus the internals). I guess I could put a ProFire Lightbridge or something alongside one of these in an aggregate device. Though that might eat a PCIe slot due to Firewire bandwidth concerns.

I would humbly suggest, as companion to a 2882 ... a ULN-2. The two make a lot of sense as companion pieces, as the 2882 provides a bulk of i/o, while the ULN-2 brings two high-end preamps to the party as well as monitor and headphone outputs with physical attenuators.

I bring this up because of your S/MUX request. Both support S/MUX, and with the new board, the ULN-2 gets ADAT i/o, thus with both boxes, you do get eight channels of ADAT input at 96K.

At 44.1K: 8 line/mic inputs, 2 mic/line inputs, 4 AES or S/PDIF inputs, 16 ADAT inputs -- total of 30 inputs

At 96K: 8 line/mic inputs, 2 mic/line inputs, 4 AES or S/PDIF inputs, 8 ADAT inputs -- total of 22 inputs

You also get the combined mix and DSP power -- even if you only have one +DSP license, it covers both machines as long as they are connected.

Again I wonder if these i/o would be recognized by Pro Tools somehow. Perhaps as a plugin? Do you think Digi would allow a competing hardware vendor to hack into Pro Tools via a plugin interface? They have absolute fiat over RTAS afaik. They might have told FXpansion that they'd only support the VST wrapper if it wasn't used to circumvent the Iron Grip.

RTAS plugins tend to deactivate when you go into record mode anyway -- so assuming you could work external i/o into an RTAS plug-in, you still couldn't record it. You'll note that the MIO processors, like FXpansion, support only RTAS, not TDM. It presumably would be a lot more difficult to hack external processing into a TDM plug-in, since those processors execute entirely on the hardware card rather than within the operating system.

Originally Posted by thermos

Aurora 8 smokes it. Sorry guys....... I've said this before, I had serious headroom problems with the A/D for some reason. I thought the D/A in the 2882 was great, but the A/D didn't quite measure up to me. The Aurora 8 is much better in terms of both A/D and D/A.

Absolutely not true. The idea that the Aurora is "mastering grade" has been promoted by a lot of folks around here, and I know there are a lot of people here who would like to think it's true — it ain't. It's a bit less detailed than the high-end Apogee stuff and simply not in the same league as Mytek for overall clarity and flatness. It's a really, really great converter and a tremendous value, but "mastering grade?" No.

Whatever your headroom problems were on the 2882, they seem to have affected your evaluation of its ADC. I really encourage you to get another unit and/or get your headroom issues sorted out, then re-evaluate. We use the Aurora 16 every day and have owned and often used a 2882 for several years. The Aurora is great, but so is the 2882, and I don't think either one of them is of significantly higher caliber. If anything, I would probably lean toward the 2882 — the Aurora may be slightly more detailed, the 2882 slightly more flat.

While very happy with our Aurora 16 as a secondary converter, I can't see buying an Aurora 8 + Firewire rather than a 2882. The 2882 is simply a far more useful and versatile device -- lots more connectivity options (ADAT and S/PDIF), good headphone amp, and extra mic pres (but only if/when you want them).

JSL

[Da5Id]

My ULN-2 is on a UPS truck right now for the 2d upgrade! I'll report back in a couple weeks when I get it back and have a chance to play a bit.

[thermos]

We'll have to agree to disagree then. I honestly thought the RME Fireface 800 A/D was slightly better than the MH 2882 I had for a while (more extended top end). My main a/d converter at the time though for most stuff was a Jim Williams modded Lucid Ad 96/24. Way better than either the 2882 or Fireface. The Aurora definitely beats all of the above for solidity of the image and flatness, no question. And has A/D headroom for days! Very handy when you accidentally get those tracking overs.

I remember taking the 2882 to Jim Williams when he was in LA, and him opening it and exclaiming "look at all those cheap Japanese caps!" Still a great all in one though (one of the best), don't want to seem like I'm knocking it......

[mothermix]

What about all the plugs listed here:



Are they all included?

[henryrobinett]

Are they included in what? They're part of the 2d/DSP upgrade, yes. But all of those plugins are not available for just the free V.5 Console download upgrade.

[mothermix]

I found it a little complicated first, this is what I found out:
The plugins on this page are included on the 2D, also on the new 2882-2D. If you want all other FX, you need the +DSP-Licence. Right?

Another question: What exactly is the graph-tool?

[uosdwis]

Originally Posted by Da5Id

My ULN-2 is on a UPS truck right now for the 2d upgrade! I'll report back in a couple weeks when I get it back and have a chance to play a bit.

It's on a UPS truck, and you think you're getting it back?

[henryrobinett]

Originally Posted by thermos

Aurora 8 smokes it. Sorry guys.......

I've said this before, I had serious headroom problems with the A/D for some reason. I thought the D/A in the 2882 was great, but the A/D didn't quite measure up to me. The Aurora 8 is much better in terms of both A/D and D/A.

Very cool that they are doing this. I'd love to hear those plugs as standalone.

Man, I don't know. You need to check out the 2d/v5 and get back to me on that. I don't think there's much at all in a similar ballpark for anywhere near the price.

[lllubi]

Originally Posted by henryrobinett

You got to check out summing from DP or Logic in this box! I just basically use the DAW app as a launching pad. I use the record panel in Metric Halo Box to record to. You can access this stuff "inside" the Daw with Console Connnect. Recording using the best plugins I've ever used. I used to think UAD was the bomb.

The mixer is set up like a big console. You can route pre AND post fader. There's a great reverb built in - HaloVerb.

For those of you with a 2882 or ULN-2 the 2d upgrade card is a no brainer. If you are fairly handy, it's pretty easy to install.

Check it out.

Henry
when you implement your Halo-verb within Logic or DP does the DAW affect
how the reverb sounds?
MH summing vs.Protools HD summing:any experience?

thanks

[henryrobinett]

I haven't used PT HD summing. But summing in the V5 Mixer (Metric Halo box) is superior in sound to summing in either DP or Logic. By this I mean using the Console Connect that runs as a plugin inside your DAW. For one thing you're using the 80 bit wide Mixer. I use all 18 channels of one box, more boxes if I need more, to sum. Obviously my pan is in the v5 mixer. I have it's faders at unity and still use the automation of DP/Logic.

[henryrobinett]

HaloVerb goes in the bus fader of the v.5 Mixer, not in the fader of DP/Logic, etc. If I'm using Altiverb or UAD EMT Plate I send it out a stereo DAW track to be summed in v5, if that makes any sense. And yes, sonically it's clearer, less cloudy, mushy, than doing it inside the DAW summing engine.

[thermos]

Originally Posted by henryrobinett

Man, I don't know. You need to check out the 2d/v5 and get back to me on that. I don't think there's much at all in a similar ballpark for anywhere near the price.

Yeah, its probably much better, I don't doubt it. I have heard the summing in their console is great. I wonder if they will release those plugs natively.

[lllubi]

Originally Posted by henryrobinett

HaloVerb goes in the bus fader of the v.5 Mixer, not in the fader of DP/Logic, etc. If I'm using Altiverb or UAD EMT Plate I send it out a stereo DAW track to be summed in v5, if that makes any sense. And yes, sonically it's clearer, less cloudy, mushy, than doing it inside the DAW summing engine.

thats great news.i like the idea not being dependant on a DAWs sound.
can you use 2d´s plugins within Logics mixer like UADs plugins?seems not
to work from what i understand from your post.

thanks

[OldTimey]

Originally Posted by henryrobinett

I haven't used PT HD summing. But summing in the V5 Mixer (Metric Halo box) is superior in sound to summing in either DP or Logic. By this I mean using the Console Connect that runs as a plugin inside your DAW. For one thing you're using the 80 bit wide Mixer. I use all 18 channels of one box, more boxes if I need more, to sum. Obviously my pan is in the v5 mixer. I have it's faders at unity and still use the automation of DP/Logic.

So the "Console Connect" is run as an insert plugin? You place it post-fader i imagine, last in the chain? Is that how it works?

[henryrobinett]

Originally Posted by thermos

Yeah, its probably much better, I don't doubt it. I have heard the summing in their console is great. I wonder if they will release those plugs natively.

I would seriously doubt. The whole idea behind concepts like Metric Halo and UAD is to NOT be native so as to protect the technology from piracy. At least that's the way I view it. Also to not be hampered in any way from shared dsp resources, but mainly to protect the company from pirates.

[henryrobinett]

Originally Posted by lllubi

thats great news.i like the idea not being dependant on a DAWs sound.
can you use 2d´s plugins within Logics mixer like UADs plugins?seems not
to work from what i understand from your post.

thanks

You can use the 2d plugins within Logic with Console Connect. It's applying a different technology within Logic. CC is a "plugin" in Logic/DP, Cubase. Doesn't matter whether it's post/pre. It just launches. You the set your daw outputs/inputs through Console Connect/v5 Mixer. I run two simultaneous mixers: Logic/DPs and 2d/v.5s. UAD and the native plugs go in the DAW mixer strips and the Metric Halos go in the v5 Mixer strips. Logics plug is generally, the way I do it, is pre 2d mixer. The real MASTER fader is v5, because that's how I'm summing and recording. v5 is the real power and brains behind the DAW.

But I gotta tell you, this thing is so damn flexible, there are so many ways to do this thing, I haven't even scratched the surface.

But it's not like UAD or URS or Hydratone. 2d is the brains. It's a new way of operating.

[astronmr20]

Originally Posted by peeder

It looks interesting. Though I was hoping for an upgrade to the converters. I see they're putting a new crystal in them, but converter IC's have now had several generations of refinement since those shipped. And these boxes aren't cheap...

I do wonder how the Pro Tools integration works in practice though.

That's the thing about these boxes.. the converters stand up to anything even close to it's price range, and they're 10 years old.

Future-proof, and they meant it!

[Mile-High]

This is really exciting, especially since the MH plugins like the Channelstrip are nothing short of great .. cos I'd assume the channelstrip in the 2d system is based on the native MH channelstrip?

How will it live with other FW devices connected to the same computer? (like the Duende) I guess separate busses/fw-cards is the way to go?

[sirthought]

I was really, really.... really hoping the news was that they were offering products for Windows PC.

I know a couple of people who use these (actually two of the endorsers on the MH site) and they love the 2882s. For the price, they probably are the best FW interface deal going. But I work in PC for a variety of reasons.

It would also be nice if there was a main monitor volume on the front.

[A440]

Originally Posted by Mile-High

How will it live with other FW devices connected to the same computer? (like the Duende) I guess separate busses/fw-cards is the way to go?

I run Duende on a separate FW buss card to my MH 2882, which, as you'd expect works fine. However, I tried running them both on the same FW buss and that worked too! Which was a pleasant suprise. This is not the usual experience that people seem to have though. Separate FW busses is probably the way to go for stability.

On another point. It seems a shame to me that you can't insert the MH 2d/+dsp plugs directly into your DAW. Personally that's a feature that I'd really like to have. The good thing about MH is that they are very responsive to user feedback. So if enough of us make this point it could be something we see in the future!