Barefoot Sound Micro Mains Vs. ADAM S3A's

[Tetness]

Robert,

The MM27s do look a bit wide for that setup. I would stagger the speakers. That way both the S3A's and the MM27s are the same distance apart. When Thomas and I do shootouts, that's what we do.

[rvwainscott]

Originally Posted by Reptil

Wow busy setup!
you're a speaker slut
IME monitors need a bit of space around them. It depends on which kind of course, but did you try to remove some of them, and check?
I understand all ears are different, but seriously, you don't get interference? (the big PA ones resonating etc. the dynaudios getting a bump from the adams etc.)

It isn't really an issue. All of them sit on their Isolation pads so that helps and I do not ever run them all at the same time. The club speakers are just that, club speakers. Some artists, especially hip hop artists just want to know what it will sound like in a club so "crowding" isn't an issue with them. They just want to hear something very loud regardless so I oblige them.

The dynaudio's have to sit on something dont they? Sitting on their pads on top of the adams does not impart any additional bump that I know of. Probably less so than sitting on my desk.

The Vega's are rather large club/home stereo speakers for when someone wants to know how it will sound on a stereo system. BTW, I even have some cheap computer speakers that I can run a mix through.

I know it seems a bit overkill but prior to the ADAMS, translation was a big issue so I needed the additional systems to check my mix against. Sadly, I'm not big enough or well know enough to just tell the client "trust me" so having something they can relate to that I can easily switch to isn't the worst idea I've ever had.

At some point this may all change but until my next repatch/upgrade (a repatch can take as long as two week - the last one did) I'm gonna keep things the way they are.

BTW, I might as well include some other images of my place.

Enjoy!

[212121]

If the mm27 are \ sound so good i can't imagine how the mm12 will sound

[Mike H]

Originally Posted by RoundBadge

Yeah the MM's are cool like that.
you can have the volume,power and fullness to track with guys rocking in the control room or have em at super low volumes for quiet mixing and they don't flinch.
..

Yes, I normally mix at fairly low levels, then crank it up briefly near the end just to hear it. I don't end up changing anything as a result.

Amazing monitors.

[raal]

Originally Posted by Tetness

Robert,

The MM27s do look a bit wide for that setup. I would stagger the speakers. That way both the S3A's and the MM27s are the same distance apart. When Thomas and I do shootouts, that's what we do.

hi tetness,
how do you mean staggered? if either the S3As or Barefoots are further back than one another, wouldn't the further one's signal bounce off the 1st?

thank you for posting.

[rimskidog]

Thanks for the pics but...wow! I'd envisaged the barefoots [barefeet ;-) ] being much bigger!

[RoundBadge]

Originally Posted by rimskidog

Thanks for the pics but...wow! I'd envisaged the barefoots [barefeet ;-) ] being much bigger!

They are pretty big.
very deep.
Also: 70 pounds apiece

[lucey]

Originally Posted by Dean Roddey

So the street price is $3500 each? They best sound good. That puts them at $1700 more than a pair of S3-A's, which are already pretty pricey. At that price it might be more fair to compare them to the S4V-A MK from Adam perhaps?

The 27s compare more evenly with ATC 100s or 150s at more than double the price.

[yeloocproducer]

I compared them to ATC 150s "side by each"... and the MM27s could certainly hang tough. You might get a tiny bit more "club" factor in the power of the low end in the ATCs but not much. The MM27s measured pretty much razor flat across the mids and highs in the room as well.

[u b k]

i've only heard the 27's in playback situations, never used them for mixing.

the first was a shootout between them, s3a's, and twins. all i got out of that session was that very scooped, hyped music (l.a. style smooth jazz) sounds very scooped and hyped on all 3 models.

the second was at the last tapeopcon, where an old betty davis mix (hard 70's funk) was being gently squozen by the shadow hills mastering comp, and they sounded unbelievably rich and deep, with amazing bass. they also revealed distortion on a sax in a song i've heard 10 million times but had never heard the reedy distortion. i pointed it out to jeff (from vk) and we had to verify that it wasn't the tweet... it wasn't. so apparently they're very revealing as well, at least of some things.

my guess is i'd love them if i had them. the ability to reveal like that isn't a plus in my book, i still don't hear that sax distortion anywhere else in the real world so i question the utility of hearing flaws that don't need addressing. but that kind of stuff also happens with the twins and s3a's, even ns10's, and i respect those monitors greatly, so there you go.


gregoire
del
ubk
.

[Bastiano666]

Thanks!!!

[jamwerks]

As said earlier in this thread, it would be interesting to compare the 27's to the Adam S4A's not the S3A's. The bigger drivers (9" not 7.4") and the mid range tweeter probably change alot.

[Flymax]

Originally Posted by jamwerks

As said earlier in this thread, it would be interesting to compare the 27's to the Adam S4A's not the S3A's. The bigger drivers (9" not 7.4") and the mid range tweeter probably change alot.

I agree with this post. I have the s4a's and they sound WAY different than the s3a's.

[anseo]

"Someone that wanted me to co-produce their album decided that he had to work on those monitors because he heard things in his mix that he never heard before on any other system."

Umm, isn't that a disadvantage? After all, if you're only mixing for Barefoot owners the market is pretty small.

[matucha]

Originally Posted by Flymax

I agree with this post. I have the s4a's and they sound WAY different than the s3a's.

aren't these supposed to be S3As with more extended bottom, more power, but in other ways almost "the same"? I say that because I like s3a (the detail they bring), but I'd like to get the same kind of sound but just a bit more robust/confident down there in the bass.

[cl516]

these posts certainly have me curious about the Barefoots, and every now and then, these comparisons to the S3A come up. one day i'll try for an A/B in my own environment, but in the meantime, i hope my S3A's will still be good enough for me to make music on.

[Bryce]

Originally Posted by matucha

aren't these supposed to be S3As with more extended bottom, more power, but in other ways almost "the same"?

Not really....

The S4As use a bigger woofer ( 2x the same woofer used in the S2.5A) which doesn't sound the same as the smaller one used in the S3A any more than the S2A sounds like the S2.5A; plus, it has a folded ribbon midrange driver in addition to the folded ribbon tweet.

Different sound for sure.

dB
ADAM Audio USA

[Flymax]

Originally Posted by matucha

aren't these supposed to be S3As with more extended bottom, more power, but in other ways almost "the same"? I say that because I like s3a (the detail they bring), but I'd like to get the same kind of sound but just a bit more robust/confident down there in the bass.

Diff speaker. Folded ribbon midrange.

[matucha]

Originally Posted by Flymax

Diff speaker. Folded ribbon midrange.

Hmm... makes me curious to hear it one day ;-)

[Full Clip Audio]

Originally Posted by anseo

"Someone that wanted me to co-produce their album decided that he had to work on those monitors because he heard things in his mix that he never heard before on any other system."

Umm, isn't that a disadvantage? After all, if you're only mixing for Barefoot owners the market is pretty small.

If that gets us the client then so much the better. In this market any advantage is, well, an advantage. Can any of you really say that a boom box is gonna reveal the difference between an ISA and a 610 pre? Yet we want to have both.

So far, these barefoot's seem to be the missing link between what I, as an engineer, want to have in a monitor and what the client wants to hear.

[peeder]

Well I use a sub with the S3As. I doubt I'd want one with Barefeet.

But the barefeet are just too big and heavy for my room. The S3As and sub are fine. Mixes come out very good now that I've made all the adjustments I need.

I'm glad the OP posted a picture of this "shootout". The displayed arrangement proves that a fair shootout could not be accomplished in that room.

[barefoot]

Originally Posted by raal

hi tetness,
how do you mean staggered? if either the S3As or Barefoots are further back than one another, wouldn't the further one's signal bounce off the 1st?

thank you for posting.

Hey Ra,

Sorry you had so much trouble with customs. As I recall, Armando's pair zipped right through with no problem. Maybe he has connections.... or you're under suspicion???

Tetness meant that for a better comparison, both pairs of speakers should be the same distance apart. So you would position them like this:

AB AB

Rather than:

AB BA

Hope this helps!
Thomas

[Full Clip Audio]

Originally Posted by peeder

Well I use a sub with the S3As. I doubt I'd want one with Barefeet.

But the barefeet are just too big and heavy for my room. The S3As and sub are fine. Mixes come out very good now that I've made all the adjustments I need.

I'm glad the OP posted a picture of this "shootout". The displayed arrangement proves that a fair shootout could not be accomplished in that room.

While its not ideal in terms of spacing, the differences between the ADAMs and the Barefoots can be easily heard with even one speaker! The room is properly treated and responds VERY well. The issue is the spacing and really shouldnt change what you are hearing from each speaker in the mid range where the biggest differences can be found.

[Reptil]

Originally Posted by rvwainscott

It isn't really an issue......snip..

thanks for the detailed answer.
Understand perfectly the idea behind the club speakers, it is necessary IMO, since they have a different character than the cleaner studio monitors, even if levels are the same.

Originally Posted by rvwainscott

BTW, I might as well include some other images of my place.

Enjoy!
...snip...

nice vibe.

[RoundBadge]

Originally Posted by peeder

Well I use a sub with the S3As. I doubt I'd want one with Barefeet.

But the barefeet are just too big and heavy for my room. The S3As and sub are fine. Mixes come out very good now that I've made all the adjustments I need.

I'm glad the OP posted a picture of this "shootout". The displayed arrangement proves that a fair shootout could not be accomplished in that room.

No you definitely don't need a sub.the bass extension/smooth crossover and tightness are all right there.
FWIW,I've done the shootout with the speakers in AB AB mode in a great room and the differences were not subtle.
i also found the BF's were way less room dependent..the sweet spot wider.
Also the size isn't much bigger than the S3A's.. a bit deeper .
..yes indeed they are way heavier.
The S3A's certainly aren't bad speakers to mix on.I got the work done. and I enjoyed them more than my old gennies
Its just the BF's have taken me to monitor heaven.best investment I've made in years


..

[Yuri Kogan]

We have Focal SM11's (with a sub), S3A's (with a sub) and S4A's in different rooms. Had the BF's too for a while, but sent them back in favour of the Focals..
That initial post saying something about S3A's not resolving a snare as well as the BF's is ridiculous. The BFs have a very wooly bottom (ala Genlecs) and a strange top end. Everyone was commenting on how unnatural they sounded in comparison to the S3A's. Thats why the Focals are now used in studio A, they are a class above. Great speaker but abit pricey.
I think people hear what they want to hear. Selective hearing anyone? The above opinion is not just mine but of ~30 clients we had in the studio. I think Australian Adams dealers did well after people compared them in the studio environment

Yuri

[edham]

I post this pic just to correct the impression that the 27's are physically way bigger than S3a's.
They are bigger but not by a lot.

[edham]

Originally Posted by Yuri Kogan

. The BFs have a very wooly bottom (ala Genlecs) and a strange top end. Everyone was commenting on how unnatural they sounded in comparison to the S3A's. Thats why the Focals are now used in studio A, they are a class above. Great speaker but abit pricey
Yuri

I came to the opposite conclusion.
Still love S3A's and like Focals.
Kept the barefoots. ymmv

[Full Clip Audio]

Originally Posted by Yuri Kogan

We have Focal SM11's (with a sub), S3A's (with a sub) and S4A's in different rooms. Had the BF's too for a while, but sent them back in favour of the Focals..
That initial post saying something about S3A's not resolving a snare as well as the BF's is ridiculous. The BFs have a very wooly bottom (ala Genlecs) and a strange top end. Everyone was commenting on how unnatural they sounded in comparison to the S3A's. Thats why the Focals are now used in studio A, they are a class above. Great speaker but abit pricey.
I think people hear what they want to hear. Selective hearing anyone? The above opinion is not just mine but of ~30 clients we had in the studio. I think Australian Adams dealers did well after people compared them in the studio environment

Yuri

I would suggest that it is probably your room if other people hear the same thing then because by almost every account the S3As are VERY weird sounding. I love them, dont get me wrong but they sound downright un-natural and strange. They ARE muddy in the low mids and the area does seem very cluttered compared to the Barefoots. The crossover area is just not smooth and open the way the Barefoots are. With ADAMs, the snare sounds as if its fighting to peek out of the mix and with the Barefoots you can hear the entire hit. To each thier own but wooly bottom end and "strange" top end is quite the opposite of what I am hearing and "natural" is the last adjective I would use to describe the S3As and one of te first I would use to describe the Barefoots(and agian I am not slating the ADAMs. I think they are great!).

Btw... no one ever claimed this was a scientific shootout by any means. This is simply a report on our initial observations in a real world setting.

[lucey]

Originally Posted by Yuri Kogan

We have Focal SM11's (with a sub), S3A's (with a sub) and S4A's in different rooms. Had the BF's too for a while, but sent them back in favour of the Focals..
That initial post saying something about S3A's not resolving a snare as well as the BF's is ridiculous. The BFs have a very wooly bottom (ala Genlecs) and a strange top end. Everyone was commenting on how unnatural they sounded in comparison to the S3A's. Thats why the Focals are now used in studio A, they are a class above. Great speaker but abit pricey.
I think people hear what they want to hear. Selective hearing anyone? The above opinion is not just mine but of ~30 clients we had in the studio. I think Australian Adams dealers did well after people compared them in the studio environment

Yuri

Easy answer ... everything is backwards down there! Folded ribbons are "natural". Genelecs are "wooly". Focal tweeters are likely 'soft', and the SM11s have 'clear phase' in the center from all that useful digital processing.

Just kidding Yuri ... whatever works brother!