Advice for percussion overhead mics/pres

[Serevende]

One of my first posts here. Hope I don't make a total ass of myself...

I'm looking into a nice set of pres and mics for over head use on marimba, vibraphone, congas, timbales and drum set (primarily for capturing cymbal sounds cause I'm planning on trying out the Vdrums for everything but cymbals and snare). From marimba to timbales top cymbals... I realize there may be no one possible recommendation.

Since I already own a UA 6176 that I got a while back, I was thinking about going with a second 6176 so I'd have two channels of that to use as my overhead pres/comps. I've read such mixed reviews on what the 6176 is good for and what it's not; I'm trying to get as many opinions as possible on it's suitability for this kind of over head use.

For mics I've considered 414's, a second AT4050 (cause I have one of those and like it), Shure 44's, Shure 81's and others but I'm coming down to what I think will be my choice... a set of Neumann KM 184's.

It would be lovely if a great drum and percussion engineer would chime in here and say a second a UA6176 and a second AT4050 is the perfect solution since I have one each of those already. But I don't want to go that route if it will suck for the use I'm describing here. Also, my 6176 and 4050 haven't been used much but are over 3 years old. Would brand spanking new ones be noticeably different from those built 3 years ago?

Last, I'm wondering if all of this high end front end stuff is over kill for me anyway considering I'm a rank amateur and I'm running through a 5 year old MOTU 24i.

In the least, I wonder if anyone would look at the combination of the 6176 and the Nueman 184's and think it's a flat out rotten combination for the use I've described.

Anybody who responds to this is very generous! I apologize if my ignorance is overwhelming!

[rarseman]

Ah
I got conned into Samson C02 mics for percussion from Sam Ash couple years ago....
You gonna laugh that I still use the C02s in ISA 428 for congas, bongos, chimes etc even though I have better mics...dont asked, somehow they sound nice

[stafs]

For percussion Blue 'Dragonfly' is

[529 Pro Audio]

I am getting some really great drums sounds mostly from only two microphones, a Pearlman TM-1 and a TM-2 using the recorderman technique detailed here:

Recorderman overhead drum mic technique - Hometracked

The Pearlmans seem to work really well in this application because they both feature a hi-cut switch that I find essential for keeping the cymbals from overwhelming the mix.

You can hear some rough mixes on my homepage that we tracked recently using this very setup...

www.529proaudio.com or MySpace.com - 529 Pro Audio - - Other / Other / Other - www.myspace.com/529proaudio

Best,
Chris

[warhead]

Many people would kill to have a pair of 6176 and AT4050 for percussion recording, I'd say just pick those up and rock on. No reason why you cannot make great recordings if the source is right.

I do have to ask / point out though: why do you care about getting "mixed reviews" on something you own and can verify on your own? It's about time for people to start caring NOTHING about what a bunch of guys on the internet say about things THEY OWN. If you own it try it out, again most people would not complain about owning these things and any engineer worth his / her salt would reap excellent benefits from it.

I just don't understand reading other people's opinions on gear you own when you can simply record with it and find out for yourself whether it works for you?

War

[James Lehmann]

I think for percussion you need a matched pair of decent SDC's and a fast, clean stereo pre. FWIW, my own set-up is Gefell M300's into a Metric Halo ULN-2.

A 4050 and a 2176 are great bits of kit (and a great chain for vocals, bass, etc), but if there was a choice available I'm not sure it's what I'd reach for first for percussion. But if there isn't a choice then like War says, I'd just sling whatever I've got up and get on with it - you could make a perfectly good recording of the sources you describe with a pair of well-placed SM58's!

But it's certainly not overkill to invest in a good pair of SDC's if the budget is there - they will always earn their keep! I don't know what the MOTU pre-s are like but if they're only so-so there's plenty of well-recommended 2-ch pre-amps that you could investigate too that won't break the bank - FMR, Aphex, DAV etc. If you've $2,000 to spend, this is the route I'd choose.

Then again, you've posted in the "High End" section of this Forum so maybe you have triple that budget and see yourself more in the Schoeps/DPA/Millenia/Cranesong sphere, in which case I defer to the wisdom of more experienced folks than me!

I guess you've already searched? - there's tons of threads on percussion/overhead mics here!

[Serevende]

Originally Posted by warhead

Many people would kill to have a pair of 6176 and AT4050 for percussion recording, I'd say just pick those up and rock on. No reason why you cannot make great recordings if the source is right.

I do have to ask / point out though: why do you care about getting "mixed reviews" on something you own and can verify on your own? It's about time for people to start caring NOTHING about what a bunch of guys on the internet say about things THEY OWN. If you own it try it out, again most people would not complain about owning these things and any engineer worth his / her salt would reap excellent benefits from it.

I just don't understand reading other people's opinions on gear you own when you can simply record with it and find out for yourself whether it works for you?

War

How am I supposed to know how the gear I have might measure up to what others have experience with and may be more appropriate for the use I've described. Does that help?

I read and care about professional reviews. And I read and care about what knowledgeable people post here. I'm not a person that has been recording and working with all types of gear for 10, 20 or more years. I've recorded percussion with my 4050 and 6176 and to me it sounds good. But I'm about to drop a few thousand bucks on setting up an ideal 2 channel over head rig and was hoping to get opinions from people that know a lot more about this than i do. I appreciate your "Many people would kill to have a pair of 6176 and AT4050 for percussion recording, I'd say just pick those up and rock on." I don't doubt that. Thanks. I was just wondering if there might be someone out there that might chime in and say that the 6176 and a 4050 is a poor choice compared to a 2 channel John Hardy and a pair of 414's or whatever. It's a hell of a lot of money to spend for me. I've been lurking here for ages and have learned a great deal. The knowledge here is way beyond me and I was hoping to tap into it for this purpose.

Sorry. My first post. I'll be more cautious about posting the future.

[warhead]

How am I supposed to know how the gear I have might measure up to what others have experience with and may be more appropriate for the use I've described. Does that help?

It doesn't make as much sense as it would if you did not own the pieces already and like you say:

I've recorded percussion with my 4050 and 6176 and to me it sounds good.

and this is what matters!

Sorry. My first post. I'll be more cautious about posting the future.

I'm not trying to make you look bad here. You own the gear, you're satisfied and like the sound, somebody else coming along and saying "nah it sucks" (one person in 6.5 billion on Earth) and it will simply confuse the issue and send you further down the road of reading what other people think about your gear and how much more $$$ you should be spending.

Sorry, I was truly trying to be helpful.

War