how LOUD do you mix?

[xmostynx]

-6
-12
-15
-18
-20?

[Fletcher]

80-112 db SPL

[u b k]

i'm generally either at 70db or 85db, but i move around more as the mix progresses and gels.

by the end i do most of the tweaks at whisper volume, with the occasional pass loud to see how it hits.


gregoire
del
ubk
.

[xmostynx]

i quess i'm wondering what your meters are reading?

do you mix at 0db or do you mix at -20?

i'm mixing ITB and i'm getting much more depth at -20 than i am at -6.

anyone?

[Led]

I mix on a console, but I go back in to print the mix at around -10 to
-12dB with the odd peaks hitting around -6dB
Actual listening volume I change all the time, like every 10 minutes, but like Greg I like to do the final whisper quiet passes to check levels etc. I also go out to the kitchen which is outside my mix room and listen with it loud. I often hear things out there that I don't sitting at the console. It may be the beer out there....

[xmostynx]

Originally Posted by Led

I often hear things out there that I don't sitting at the console. It may be the beer out there....

i'm finding myself doing whisper quiet mixes at night

and when i mix really quiet i have so much more space and depth in my mixes...

my only loud mixes sound good when i'm mixing on an analog console live.

how come so different in the computer?

[Chaellus]

usually - 6db..

[DesertDawg]

Originally Posted by xmostynx

-6
-12
-15
-18
-20?

Not sure i understand the question... is this absolute, or using the K-scale (12/14/20), or are you talking about how hard you hit the meters on a final mix in (and you'd need to specify) either the RMS or PRMS scales (which in my case, would vary a lot, depending on the genre of music) ?

So which is it?

[Rick Sutton]

The question has no reference to real spl levels so I can't get any reference level to qualify an answer that has any bearing to reality.
So the answer is loud, medium, and soft. Regardless whether the question is grounded in reality or not, that is my answer.

[xmostynx]

sorry for the confusion but i'm wondering what your master fader meters look like.

does that help?

[Led]

I think I have concluded that Xmo is talking about the peak level dBFS that you mix your final master at.
I could be wrong, there's a lot of beer in our kitchen.....

[Pyxis360]

I mix quiet

[vernier]

Medium lowish or sometimes louder ...no VU meters.
'

[jinksdingo]

Generally fairly quietly for most tweaks.
Use cans to check reverb tails.
As mix gets closer to finished I check it loud a few times.
Then on various speakers including crappy clock radio/computer speakers which brings the mix back to earth.
Then quite again.

[rainsinvelvet]

The meters on my master fader in PT usually are hitting around -6db or so once I'm close to finished mixing.
ERic

[staudio]

I have calibrated my monitoring systems so that a RMS level of -20dB Full Scale
(digital dB) gives a resulting Sound Pressure Level of 83dBSPL in the control room. I mix at several repeatable settings: 70dBSPL, 83dBSPL, and 90dBSPL. I make sure to check at all these levels because each one tells me different things about what I am hearing. When calibrated as such, the peak level in the DAW is around -10 to -6 dBFS. I know what each monitor position sounds like loudness wise so I never have to look at the master meter to check for clipping and all my mixes are pretty much consistently the same loudness: peak to average ratio.

This is essentially the Bob Katz K-System.

[xmostynx]

Originally Posted by staudio

This is essentially the Bob Katz K-System.

looks like i need to go through his book and do more reading.

[inthere]

Loud as I can go without distortion...................

[James Meeker]

I'll use the full range of playback volume. But most of the time it's at a 'little-louder-than-conversation' level. I'll listen to stuff really quietly and loudly and look for the magic zones where the mix speaks loud and soft. That seems to be a balanced mix.

Remember that our perception of frequency is dependent on volume. If you mix at just one volume the mix will probably sound fantastic at that level... but maybe not at others.

[robot gigante]

Just a bit quieter than normal conversation level for me, but a tiny bit louder than whisper quiet.

As I'm wrapping up I check the mix at louder volumes to make sure it sounds even at all levels. At this point I'll also check it in the cans. Usually I don't have to make any tweaks at that point but sometimes I do.

[xmostynx]

Originally Posted by James Meeker

Remember that our perception of frequency is dependent on volume.

how do you go about finding the happy medium?

i find myself sometimes hating stuff lower, but loving it louder.

sometimes vice versa

do you just make a decision and stick with it?

[James Meeker]

Originally Posted by xmostynx

how do you go about finding the happy medium?

i find myself sometimes hating stuff lower, but loving it louder.

sometimes vice versa

do you just make a decision and stick with it?

Find the happy medium--that's going to be your best mix. You may have to adjust compression ratios to 'stick' stuff where it needs to be. Example: the snare is overpowering at low volumes, but lost in the mix at high volumes--take the level down and compress it more until it stays put at any volume level.

That's pretty much the process. After doing it enough you start to get a feel for where stuff needs to sit and your adjustments are less and less when you are checking the mix.

It's VERY easy to get a weak mix if you're jamming a loud playback. However, if you can get a powerful mix at a low or moderate playback level it sounds even stronger when it's loud.

As far as the playback volume on the master buss... in ProTools I aim to have my peaks hitting -6db. The kick and snare are going to be pretty much nailing -6 to -7 db or so (typically I choose either the kick or snare to be "dominant" and put the other one a db underneath... I think putting the kick and snare on equal footing yields unfocused mixes most of the time.... like everything else in this life it depends), and then I build everything else around it. I'll often throw a compressor on the mix buss, nothing major... maybe 1.5 to 2.5 db of GR. Often I'll use the BF Fairchild 670 for this--it seems to help spread out the image and a fat, gluey sound.

In the analog world, when I'm mixing on the SSL I aim for the kick and snare to hit around +4 to +6db with the buss comp on (4:1 ratio typically, threshold set around +1db). That gives me a good level when I bounce the mix through the Cranesong HEDD... hitting right around -6db, although on occasion I have to yank the master down a db or two if the mix is really dense.

[leebridges]

i peak at 0dB. i have no idea what my RMS would be...prolly 10-15dB below that.

[James Meeker]

Originally Posted by leebridges

i peak at 0dB. i have no idea what my RMS would be...prolly 10-15dB below that.

Wow. That's hot.

My mixes have -6db peak, and the RMS is typically -22 to -18db. Typically.

I'm not criticizing but maybe to mix things up try it at a lower peak/RMS and see if you get better results?

[petys]

I also peak at close to 0. But I'm doing mostly demos, no mastering. I do the mastering within the program and try to get it to peak around there.

[xmostynx]

Originally Posted by James Meeker

Wow. That's hot.

My mixes have -6db peak, and the RMS is typically -22 to -18db. Typically.

I'm not criticizing but maybe to mix things up try it at a lower peak/RMS and see if you get better results?

my best mixes are there too

[leebridges]

Originally Posted by James Meeker

Wow. That's hot.

My mixes have -6db peak, and the RMS is typically -22 to -18db. Typically.

I'm not criticizing but maybe to mix things up try it at a lower peak/RMS and see if you get better results?

like i said, i'm guessing at the RMS. as far as peak, there are a couple different reasons i peak as high as i can...1. the client is going to reference other material that is mastered 2. to use up as many bits as possible...at lower gain, you lose resolution in digital, right?


i learned to mix under a guy that slams the 2-buss of an SSL (VU's are always in the red)....we had the 2-buss A/D's set to -23dB at one time (if that tells you how hot he mixes). if you were to look at his mixes, they look like they've already been mastered...pretty square wav-ish.

all that to say, i like to mix hot too. i'm mixing pop, pop rock, etc...and i'm happy with my results.

it's all gonna end up peaking at 0dB anyways...i'd rather mix it like that than be surprised by what happens when the ME gets done...and i've found that the good ME's don't mind getting something that is pretty hot already (as long as it sounds good). they're used to it.

[xmostynx]

Originally Posted by leebridges

like i said, i'm guessing at the RMS. as far as peak, there are a couple different reasons i peak as high as i can...1. the client is going to reference other material that is mastered 2. to use up as many bits as possible...at lower gain, you lose resolution in digital, right?


i learned to mix under a guy that slams the 2-buss of an SSL (VU's are always in the red)....we had the 2-buss A/D's set to -23dB at one time (if that tells you how hot he mixes). if you were to look at his mixes, they look like they've already been mastered...pretty square wav-ish.

all that to say, i like to mix hot too. i'm mixing pop, pop rock, etc...and i'm happy with my results.

it's all gonna end up peaking at 0dB anyways...i'd rather mix it like that than be surprised by what happens when the ME gets done...and i've found that the good ME's don't mind getting something that is pretty hot already (as long as it sounds good). they're used to it.

your murdering dynamic range...

[The Beatsmith]

My mixes peak at -1 or -2db or so... why is it better to be lower?

As long as it doesn't clip or have any intersample peaks, what's the point in making it quieter?

[xmostynx]

if you mix lower your mixing will have more 'space' since there is more headroom for you to mix in...

this is the understand that i've always thought tho.

if you mix at -12dB then the mastering engineer has 12 decibels to work with.

if you mix at 1-2dB then he has no room.

i dunno i asked the question to further understand this issue