what would you like in next gen Digi releases?

[Idiophonic]

That is interesting, and it sounds about right. (I need to try some more extreme plugs, it sounds like!) However, HD ADC also has an upper limit to how much it can compensate that varies depending on user settings. I think the max ADC you can achieve with HD rigs is around 6000 samples. (Again, correct me if I'm wrong!)

[Kadden Heart]

Originally Posted by Idiophonic

That is interesting, and it sounds about right. (I need to try some more extreme plugs, it sounds like!) However, HD ADC also has an upper limit to how much it can compensate that varies depending on user settings. I think the max ADC you can achieve with HD rigs is around 6000 samples. (Again, correct me if I'm wrong!)

HD ADC is at least more blanketting than LE,..
the biggest delay monsters i have are
vintage warmer
liquid mix
these are actually the biggest i've seen yet (not just own) and HD would cover both of those together just fine.

it's a REAL PITA trying to work arund delays that big mixed with small delays everywhere.

[mp54u]

#1 ADC - If they don't release ADC in some way shape or form (paid upgrade or included) in the next version, I am seriously thinking about going completely away from it. It should be free with all the other manufacturers already doing this out of the box. I don't want to sit there and do math when mixing any more. That is what I have a computer for in the first place...

#2 Get rid of the track count limitations. This is ridiculous to have that in there these days. Or add the ADC to the Music Production Toolkit AND raise the limit of track count in the toolkit.

#3 Better support for other controllers. Get away from the HUI protocol. I am not very knowledgeable about this but maybe someone knows more about the differences in HUI vs. a Command 8 and the limitations that the HUI protocol has. I believe fader and knob resolution is limited when using HUI. I hate it when I want to pan something with my faderport, the resolution is so bad, I have to grab the mouse. That causes me to look instead of listen.

[leebridges]

Originally Posted by Idiophonic

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm under the impression that LE DOES have Automatic Delay Compensation. The difference is you cannot turn it on and off or configure any of the other parameters of it as you can with HD. (I think that's why so many people don't know it is there.)
I was on an HD rig the other day an experimented with the delay compensation turned off. I was surprised to hear DRAMATIC phase shifts on a track that was delayed by only 3 samples! Larger delays (1000s of samples) began to sound like a slapback delay. If the LE systems were not compensating for delay, we would all be EXTREMELY dissatisfied customers.

(I know that my M-powered version 7.4 on Leopard does not display this uncompensated behavior...)

i don't believe there is any ADC in LE...RTAS plugs on native systems are processed before the audio gets to them, tho (from what i understand). so, there is very little (1-3 samples) to no delay with most plugins. the real problem with LE, is that there is no ADC for hardware inserts. that's the big draw for HD.

[sevendaysoff]

Originally Posted by Idiophonic

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm under the impression that LE DOES have Automatic Delay Compensation. The difference is you cannot turn it on and off or configure any of the other parameters of it as you can with HD. (I think that's why so many people don't know it is there.)
I was on an HD rig the other day an experimented with the delay compensation turned off. I was surprised to hear DRAMATIC phase shifts on a track that was delayed by only 3 samples! Larger delays (1000s of samples) began to sound like a slapback delay. If the LE systems were not compensating for delay, we would all be EXTREMELY dissatisfied customers.

(I know that my M-powered version 7.4 on Leopard does not display this uncompensated behavior...)

that is wrong. you will def. hear 1000ms of delay in LE or any DAW, if you do not, you have hearing problems.

no delay is compensated for in LE. luckily there are some decent sounding rtas plugins with no delay (mcdsp, urs) for dynamic processing, and you can fetch the numbers on the plug to make up for time based FX latency. and of course theres always time adjuster (throws up in mouth).

another thing your hearing between LE & HD is the difference between 32 bit float and 48 bit precision digital summing.

edit: and neither of the buffers are relative to ADC, just used to free up dsp.

[EvilE]

Originally Posted by Idiophonic

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm under the impression that LE DOES have Automatic Delay Compensation. The difference is you cannot turn it on and off or configure any of the other parameters of it as you can with HD. (I think that's why so many people don't know it is there.)
I was on an HD rig the other day an experimented with the delay compensation turned off. I was surprised to hear DRAMATIC phase shifts on a track that was delayed by only 3 samples! Larger delays (1000s of samples) began to sound like a slapback delay. If the LE systems were not compensating for delay, we would all be EXTREMELY dissatisfied customers.

(I know that my M-powered version 7.4 on Leopard does not display this uncompensated behavior...)

from what i understand and from experience i was unaware that there was ANY ADC on LE, however, i have not been able to hear anything less than a few hundred samples (ear check?) or maybe that's because the playback buffer is compensating for it?!? either way, time adjuster is annoying and i hate math!! haha, anyone have a technical answer to this? maybe someone from digi....i hope they are reading this thread. this is market research made easy. if the other DAW's that cost less have it....why can't we?

E

[EvilE]

also, my limited amount of plugins on my home rig never seem to impart more than a couple samples worth of delay....the benefits of poverty i guess.

[Kadden Heart]

Originally Posted by EvilE

from what i understand and from experience i was unaware that there was ANY ADC on LE, however, i have not been able to hear anything less than a few hundred samples (ear check?) or maybe that's because the playback buffer is compensating for it?!? either way, time adjuster is annoying and i hate math!! haha, anyone have a technical answer to this? maybe someone from digi....i hope they are reading this thread. this is market research made easy. if the other DAW's that cost less have it....why can't we?

E

perhaps the playback buffer is what i'm thinking of.

the large sample delays really do suck,.. i eventually started inserting vintage warmer aross EVERY track just to keep the delays consistent, this obviously had a major tax on my little macbook pro.

furthermore: when routing all my drums to a sub-bus i use an aux track,..and i can't nudge an aux track (obviously) back, so this leads to me usually not using a drum sub-buss.

i REALLY refuse to upgrade to an HD system to get all the things i want from digi, i've been learning REAPER to the best i can so when it finally gets to beta for mac i can replace PT altogether hopefully,..although i will really miss some of my RTAS plugs, digidesign hates it's consumers.
maybe it's for our own good??? maybe they're trying to keep pro tool in the hands of the big studios who have the mula for an HD system, they're trying to keep the middle-man off the radar?
lol

1.) ADC-biggest concern
2.) more tracks-second biggest (hell i'll pay another $200 bucks to get another 30 tracks (on top of my music production toolkit)
3.) better metering- this would just really make me feel better about PT as compares to nuendo, reaper, etc...
4.) 64 float enginer maybe? everyone else has better options (reapear i believe ALLOWS you to choose your mix engine

i think when digi hires you they make you sign a paper saying you'll stay off of gearslutz or you'll get fired.

[Idiophonic]

that is wrong. you will def. hear 1000ms of delay in LE or any DAW, if you do not, you have hearing problems.

no delay is compensated for in LE.

I agree, one can EASILY hear 1000ms of delay (1 whole second!) as well as 1000 samples of delay or even 3 samples of delay (when left uncompensated).

My only point is that my V7.4 M-powered ProTools DOES compensate (to what upper limit, I don't know) for delay caused by RTAS (obviously, no TDM) plugins, including 1000s of samples of delay.

(I sincerely hope everyone here can hear 1 sec of plug-in induced delay!)

P.S. Evil E, you would DEFINITELY hear a few hundred samples, your software is taking care of it...

[DJGoody]

I'm going to get killed for this, but I can't take all this moaning about PT LE. It's cheap software, and a cheap platform. It's meant for hobbyists or "on the fly" work.

It's not meant or designed for "professional" work. Pro Tools HD is meant for that, hence the cost and feature difference. It's actually a simple and common concept throughout our culture. It's Pro Tools LE - ie LIMITED EDITION

This whole phenomenon of wanting a "world class studio" in a laptop with a tiny interface is part of the reason there is no respect anymore for engineers who've spent their lives refining their craft, and the process in which that is accomplished.

Like it or not, the PROCESS of analog tape is still respected, in part because you can't just go out and roll a collapsible tape machine into the subway, and do some "beat chopping" with your latte in your left hand, and cell phone in the other. You need to respect a tape machine and a console to coax good results out of them. The same is true (or should be true) for software.

I agree that DIGI has its issues. They have a practical monopoly on the "studio" world, and as such, get away with ridiculous pricing. There are things they can do to improve the functionality of LE AND HD. They've been dragging their feet for years with certain features.... but can we please get over this perpetual bashing of PT LE......?

[dannygold]

Originally Posted by DJGoody

It's not meant or designed for "professional" work.

Oh really? Says who? Professional work is work you are paid for. How many people on this list have been paid for work on an LE system? Show of hands?

[Chaellus]

DJGoodyIt's Pro Tools LE - ie LIMITED EDITION

i beleive its light edition

[TRW]

I want to see the same as everyone else - a high-track count, fully featured native/dsp hybrid, with full upgrade path.

I can't work with LE, but I also can't afford a HD rig, we have 4 at work though.

I want digi to do this:

• Full native PT software with multichannel BD etc
• Unlimited audio and midi track counts
• Native and fully delay compensated mixer - ability to run AU, RTAS or VST plug-ins without wrappers, hence total integration of UAD, Duende PCI etc
• Event style volume handles like Nuendo/Cubase/Samplitude - massive deal for me! May as well throw in Nuendo style real-time fades and the envelope/edit options too.
• A single 2U rackmount box that connects via Ethernet or single PCI or Cardbus and provides 24 ch of 96k AES I/O (Digi AD/DA boxes optional) and 8 stereo foldback analogue outputs. The box contains sufficient DSP to run a full 24ch in 24ch out matrix foldback mixer than totally integrates into the standard PT mixer. This foldback mixer provides the ability to run TDM plugins on the rackmount DSP to ensure low latency monitoring and real-time processing during tracking. All must must appear to be transparent to the native mixer, but allow seamless professional monitoring whilst tracking.
• I'd like integrated talkback with remote control and the ability to set dim options and routing on the foldback outputs and also any set of AES outs that feed your DACs and external monitoring chain... Avocet etc

Add 2U rack boxes for more I/O. 2 boxes = 48 I/O and enough DSP to monitor all with sufficient tracking processing. I don't know about you but some good reverb or delay is all I'd need.

Starting price £3k. Additional I/O boxes @ £1.8k

Optional PCI DSP cards that are £1k each and slowly upgrade to full DSP TDM operational power.
These must completely integrate into the native mixer to run the TDM plugins we know and love transparently.

Fully blown system could be as much as a good HD rig, but we can all enter at <£5k. I'd be in.

I want to use your software DIGI but I'm not keen on your hardware limitations, see it's funny, most people said PT was all about the hardware, for me now, today - it is all about the software. I like it, it gets the job done with minimum of fuss.

Let us chose our I/O and DSP please. I'd commit long term if they did this. Steinberg are shitty and I'm no logic fan. I don't want to buy a mac for DP. Come on Digi, it is time to change it up!

Before SSL do exactly this with Soundscape and Duende... here's hoping.

I'd really like to see the foldback thing nailed, so its as console like as possible. And the fact that it could run on desktop or laptop without additional hardware. This is what the industry needs.

-T

[AMIEL]

I love Protools Audio Editing capabilities BUT!

I want to be able to move an audio region and still see the Waveform while I grab it and move it !!!!

This feature helps to align and place the region from a visual point of view and do not guess and check later!

I can not believe Pro Tools do not have this basic/important feature!!


I want to be able to mute individual MIDI notes and also select many notes and mute them with a click....

I want to have a insert chain preset saver!!!want to save and recall my coolest insert chains!!!

I want gain on Audio Regions!!!

I want a better integration of the workspace or a better media explorer to select and preview audio loops and MIDI Files with ease !


I want to be able to choose better track and layout Colors the one are so cheese.

I want to be able to change the look of Protools..But I know is not gonna happen.

[DJGoody]

Originally Posted by dannygold

Oh really? Says who? Professional work is work you are paid for. How many people on this list have been paid for work on an LE system? Show of hands?

You just may get paid for it, and I have certainly been paid for work done with LE as well.

My point is that it is unlikely that DIGI designs it, or markets it for that work. That's all.

[Kadden Heart]

Originally Posted by AMIEL

I love Protools Audio Editing capabilities BUT!

I want to be able to move an audio region and still see the Waveform while I grab it and move it !!!!

This feature helps to align and place the region from a visual point of view and do not guess and check later!
n.

this is a great point that i find myself sub-consciously thinking but never really noticed it,..
would be nice :)

Originally Posted by DJGoody

You just may get paid for it, and I have certainly been paid for work done with LE as well.

My point is that it is unlikely that DIGI designs it, or markets it for that work. That's all.

we know,...or assume LE is limited,..becuse it's obviousl the "light edition" and they want you to run "the real pro deal" by buying the HD rig,...BUT
the fact is, cubase, nuendo, samplitude, reaper, basically any other software out there allows full capabilities in it without certian silly limitations.
there's TONS of people on here who use logic, cubase, reaper, etc... rather than PT, mostly becuase of PTLE's silly crippling, so whether they (or you) like it or not there's always going to be guys doing "pro" work in small computer rigs, so we may as well want the best we can get.

personally i've been using reaper almost exclusively for about 3 months now trying ot learn it, becuase soon hopefully i can leave PT.
(one more lost customer digi, thanks a lot.)

[Tony Shepperd]

Originally Posted by DJGoody

I'm going to get killed for this, but I can't take all this moaning about PT LE. It's cheap software, and a cheap platform. It's meant for hobbyists or "on the fly" work.

It's not meant or designed for "professional" work. Pro Tools HD is meant for that, hence the cost and feature difference. It's actually a simple and common concept throughout our culture. It's Pro Tools LE - ie LIMITED EDITION

This whole phenomenon of wanting a "world class studio" in a laptop with a tiny interface is part of the reason there is no respect anymore for engineers who've spent their lives refining their craft, and the process in which that is accomplished.

Like it or not, the PROCESS of analog tape is still respected, in part because you can't just go out and roll a collapsible tape machine into the subway, and do some "beat chopping" with your latte in your left hand, and cell phone in the other. You need to respect a tape machine and a console to coax good results out of them. The same is true (or should be true) for software.

I agree that DIGI has its issues. They have a practical monopoly on the "studio" world, and as such, get away with ridiculous pricing. There are things they can do to improve the functionality of LE AND HD. They've been dragging their feet for years with certain features.... but can we please get over this perpetual bashing of PT LE......?

100% correct...
I'm glad you wrote this, it's about time someone did.

Digidesign Pro Tools LE should have NEVER been called Pro Tools.
It should have been called Digidesign Tools.

And when you wanted to move up to the pro features, you would move up to Pro Tools.

[Sigma]

pre insert metering..it sucks that ya can't monitor levels of what is coming into the system when ya got insert plug ins that change levels like eq's compressors on the record channel


a way to link volume and waveform editing so you can do x fades, waveform trims etc and volume adjustments in the same trackview if ya want


a way to change monitor gain on a record track while recording other than by using an insert plug in..

a way to make seesion default plug ins in the preference page broken down into audio , aux etc instead of globally

[barryjohns]

There is absolutely "No" ADC of any kind, shape, fashion, or form in Protools LE or MPowered LE. Buffer size has nothing to do with Delay Compensation for plugins. Do some searches and you will find this discussed to death both here and the DUC. Even if you are the Nudge King or Manual Plugin Calculator Guru (Peeder), not all plugins even report the correct latency in LE.

Protools HD handles all of this perfectly. Logic's ADC/PDC is spotty at times as well. Cubase has the best on the Mac as far as Native goes.

Protools HD has a ton of advantages over LE, ADC that actually works the way it is supposed to, is only one of so many HD specific features.

[youngmain]

Digidesign needs to understand that this whole idea that LE=begginers and HD=professionals is no longer as prevalent as it was 6 1/2 years ago. Excuse me if I get flamed but their are plenty of professionals using LE just as their is HD users. Digidesign needs to upgrade HD by making their cards extremely powerful, interfaces Top notch and make LE an HD "lite" type system that can be run totally native with PDC and other goodies. Or even by making LE resticted to its sub-par hardware, but enabling it to have ADC and PDC, they would sell more systems. And by upgrading HD with better interfaces and more powerful cards you sell more HD systems! If you make the software more attractive to the masses you sell more systems and slow the competition. Leave it the way it is and well............ on Pro Tools in the next generation. And Barry could you explain to me why some plug ins do not report the correct latency values in LE and which ones they are? This LE issue is a serious flaw and needs a revision....(Digidesign: 7.4.2!!!!!!!!!!) Wouldn't this hinder HD in calculating correct latency values if plug ins dont show the correct values in the software?

[imnickb]

Originally Posted by robcap

A way to batch spot numerous files at once from the region list to the timeline so each file snaps to the original time stamp.

amen...

[dylansmale]

Originally Posted by dannygold

I'll start us out:

More than 5 segment level LEDS on HD audio interfaces.

oh wow, well that really separates the the men from the boys. haha

I would have to say I would like Digidesign to start making things worth my money.

[billy]

Delay compensation would be nice....but

What about the ONLY real time bounce to disk feature? What the **** is that? I swear I spend 10 minutes every day searching for the offline option thinking "I am an idiot, I just can't find it...there is no way it is only real time (we are in 2008, right?)"

Really, why is this not a problem for anyone else? It's like "well guys, nice work getting all these takes down. Before you go home you have to sit here for another 2 1/2 hours listening AGAIN before I can burn you a disk"....

Very often I drag every file in a session over to Nuendo so I can quickly bounce mixes for someone to take....seems so unnecessary.

Doesn't anyone else have a problem with this?

[kosmokrator]

- audiosuite processing of regions with handles
- multiple spotting from regionlist
- region-based volume trim and eq
- better sounding fades
- ability to hide tracks only in the edit window
- ability to work from centralized storage systems
- mackiecontrol protocol

[neon]

I want more "Pro Users" that can be more challenging to Digidesign in order to improve the system and feature set!'

Too many guys that just kiss the as$ of Pro Tools and accept whatever Pro Tools give to us!

I think all the Digidesign hardcore booty lickers stop Digidesign from evolvinge faster and better...and yes, these guys have to check other DAWs and think outside the box in order to know that are great and amazing features out of the Pro Tools world that can be incorporated into Pro Tools!

I love my Protools HD ...but I know can be much better !

[Tony Shepperd]

That's actually funny Neon...
My wish list includes users who actually new something about the company and the architecture of the product they are using.

FYI: About once a year Digidesign comes down to Los Angeles and joins in our Tech Breakfast.
(Tech Breakfast is pretty much what it sounds like, a group of industry pros getting together to talk Tech over Breakfast.)

They sat there for over 2 hours and let some heavy industry pros "let them have it."
One such Tech Breakfast happened about 3 weeks ago. They are very open and eager to get real world experience of what's working and what's not.
What is liked and what needs to be changed. This last one we had about 75 industry engineers and 7 software/hardware engineers from Digidesign.

When you sit down and talk to some of the software design engineers and ask them for them certain things they will explain to you why in the present architecture of the system, things like offline can not be done.
Just going through and asking for something doesn't mean that a software's system is designed to that.
So you have to go back and work within the framework of the present configuration.

Every once in a blue moon the software engineers will retool and build the code from the ground up for future expansion, but that is a massive undertaking.

[leebridges]

Originally Posted by Tony Shepperd

Every once in a blue moon the software engineers will retool and build the code from the ground up for future expansion, but that is a massive undertaking.

paying for an HD system...now that's a massive undertaking.

they're software engineers. it's their job to write code. no need to feel sorry for 'em.

[Tony Shepperd]

Originally Posted by leebridges

paying for an HD system...now that's a massive undertaking.

You could get into a HD system on Ebay for around $5k.
I really don't see that a massive undertaking.