best value for money mic and pre combo.

[manning1]

well this year i'm looking to add a good mic pre and mic combo as i just came into a few bucks with a lucky win.
any ideas gratefully received under a g note.
heres the specs.....
for the combo....
1. combo must sound good on a range of male and female voices
and guitar amplifiers and acoustic guitars.
2. low noise of course, doesnt necessarily have to be condensers.
3. will be used for the up front in the mix tracks like vox and lead instruments. i have a test ive used in the past using the old school recorder. so would like it to pass the wooden recorder test.
4. versatility would be nice. in terms of settings for warm one minute and very clean the next.
any input gratefully received. maybe i'm SOL at this price point of a g note and might have to save more.
thanks all.

[bringmewater]

I would go with a Studio Project C3 mic and a Mackie Onyx mixer with those killer pres.

[zimv20]

you could get an FRM RNP and a Shure KSM32 for < $1000 USD. or did you mean canadian?

not sure High End is the place for this...

[manning1]

bringmewater - some people have mentioned sytek to me.
what if i made my budget 2 g notes ? would i see a major improvement or just 2 per cent ?
basically i'm trying to figure out how much is enough ,
and above which its not worth spending more money.
2 grand ? 3 grand ? i'm prepared to save more bucks if need be.
i just need to know the money plateau level vs performance.

[zimv20]

make it $2500 and get a phoenix drs-1 and a soundelux u195.

big improvement, imho.

[jpaudio]

Originally posted by zimv20
make it $2500 and get a phoenix drs-1 and a soundelux u195.

big improvement, imho.

Ditto... can't go wrong with that chain.


this is 'high end', after all...

[hollywood_steve]

If you start considering $2k (and above) price ranges, this whole thread goes out the window and your options go from a handful of really good choices to literally dozens of mics, dozens of preamps and therefore hundreds of combinations. So I'll stick with the original $1k limit (I could give you 30 or 40 options for $2k, but I don't have time).

Although there might be some really good discount mics made in China these days, I don't know and will never bother to learn about them. No matter how good they might be, the second you open the box, that $400 mic is now almost worthless - the used market for no-name condensers is a total buyer's market, sellers generally can't give those mics away. On the other hand, one of the Beyer ribbon mics (M130, M160 & M260) are all proven professional tools that hold their value very well. Your clients will be happy with their performance and your competitors will be glad to take them off your handls if you ever decide to sell.

Match any of the Beyers with a simpe single ch mic pre, like the Grace 101 and you have true pro quality performance for home studio pricing, but without being forced to purchase cheap third world gear that will instantly lose much of its value.

[ozraves]

For a g note ($1 k), I'd suggest an Audio-Technica AT4040 and one of the mic preamps that fit within your budget. The preferred mic pre would be the Hamptone HJFP2. But, it's a kit. Other good choices are the Safe Sound P1 and the Presonus Eureka.

[natpub]

For all the applications and versatility you describe, I think it might be better to go for the RNP than the Grace, as the RNP sounds more neutral to me and has 2 channels. The RNP may not look as impressive as the 101, but I think it will serve you trying to do different voices, acoustic instruments, and amp micing better.

As far as mic goes, I would go to your local Guitar Center and audition them carefully. The suggested AT 40 series and Shure KSM's are a good starting point, though for a bit more, I would seriously examine the new AKG 414's (gold & silver) which run around $800.

I know the 414's are multi-pattern, and I think some of the KSM's are also.



-KT

[matucha]

When you are on the tight budget, there is a question of AD conversion too. Nice pre and mic can be very "compromised" by cheapish AD. Resulting in mushy sound that will break down very soon after you try to EQ and compress it by plugins.

Second hand market is good place to start when you are searching for good value. I got Manley Dual Mono for $1100 and it was no scam ;-).

good luck

[Dot]

Originally posted by hollywood_steve
Although there might be some really good discount mics made in China these days, I don't know and will never bother to learn about them. No matter how good they might be, the second you open the box, that $400 mic is now almost worthless - the used market for no-name condensers is a total buyer's market, sellers generally can't give those mics away.

Match any of the Beyers with a simpe single ch mic pre, like the Grace 101 and you have true pro quality performance for home studio pricing, but without being forced to purchase cheap third world gear that will instantly lose much of its value.

Steve, there are some excellent mics being made in China and you're incorrect about their resale value. Companies like ADK and Studio Projects are putting out some great price-vs-performance mics - and their more popular models are not only well-known, but also hold their value quite well.

manning, working with a mic and pre combo for about $1K basically splits the budget at about $500 each. A very versatile mic in that price range is the Studio Projects T3 multi-pattern tube mic. You'll get more sonic variation out of that mic - with its 9-position variations on 3 polar patterns - than anything else offered in its price range. Sounds geat on vox as well as acoustic instruments. The T3 sounds better on more vocalists than any other mic in its price range. Runs right about $499.

ADK offers the TC cardioid-only tube mic which is cleaner and more neutral. Runs about $599. ADK also offers the TL - which is four pattern, transformerless and very clean - not unlike a 414.

As far as pres - there's the transformerless and transparent Grace 101 -which has a very clean almost glassy sound. Runs about $500. FMR makes the 2-channel RNC which is somewhat colored, nice airy top, and has a retro sound. A good character pre, but not a good all-arounder, IMO. And there's the Summit Audio 2BA-221 - which would be the most versatile sonically - as it offers variable impedance, variable HPF, and separate solid state and variable tube signal flow.

Given the choice of the best and most versatile mic and mic pre combo for right around $1K, my first choice would be the SP T3 mic with the Summit 2BA-221 mic pre. You could get an amazing amount of mileage out of that combo on a lot of applications.

[bringmewater]

These guys are much smarter than me. I would defer to them !

[manning1]

thanks for all the input so far folks.
as you can see this is a very difficult decision.
in another thread and looking back to the 50's i'm always blown away by patsy clines vocals on the song walking after midnight.
if im recording a female singer with a great voice i dont mind
spending the money on a great mic and pre if i can get the quality
of that type of recording. it was done in what ? 1956 ?
i guess my main question is how much money do i need to spend TODAY and the mic/pre combo i need to record a top class female vocalist and get THAT type of - i can only call it TEXTURE - owen bradley(the producer i understand of the song) obtained in the mid 1950's. AND at the same time be able to use the same mic/pre combo on other instruments i might record. ie : male lead vox, guitars,maybe even lead trumpet.
sadly i can only afford one great piece as i have a elder mum to worry about so it has to be very versatile.
i really appreciate all the great input. also i need on the preamp side something that in a few yrs if it does break down can be serviced easily. particularly smt worries me.
maybe the manufacturer disappears for example.
so future service is a worry.
oh woe is me.....

[Dot]

manning, you can get that classic sound with an MXL V69 ME tube mic running through an RNP mic pre. The V69ME is $299. In fact you could also get and RNC compressor, too. Check out this combo of the RNC and RNP for $680.
http://www.atlasproaudio.com/fmraudio.html

A great mic, comp and pre for $1K.

I reviewed the V69 ME. Don't be fooled by the price. We've used and tested a lot of the gear on the market in a lot of different recording situations - and I'm not going to recommend something that's not solid. It is an excellent, high-quality dark and colored mic.
http://www.digitalprosound.com/2003/...ws/mxl_v69.htm

That combo's not going to give you the overall versatilty - that you asked for - with the T3 and 2BA-221 that I recommended in my other post. But if you want to go for a classic 50's/60's Patsy Cline vocal sound - the V69ME/RNC/RNP combo will nail it. That same combo will also work great on acoustic gtr, amps, and other applications.

[natpub]

Don't forget that Patsy was recorded to TAPE, a major piece of the sound in those old recordings. It would be unfair for you to go off thinking some mic/pre combo is going to result in such sounds. Recommendations here may emulate those tones, but not replicate them.

[jeronimo]

That is very true!

Originally posted by natpub
Don't forget that Patsy was recorded to TAPE, a major piece of the sound in those old recordings. It would be unfair for you to go off thinking some mic/pre combo is going to result in such sounds. Recommendations here may emulate those tones, but not replicate them.

[toolskid]

perhaps she had a little to do with the sound too...

[shikawkee]

I didn't care for any of that hybrid Summit stuff that came out a couple of years ago but good value mics that perform well are the KSM series Shure's and Audio-Technica's like the 4050, etc.

The RNMP is pretty cool for two channel pre's and a decent price.

[gear chick]

Originally posted by bringmewater
I would go with a Studio Project C3 mic and a Mackie Onyx mixer with those killer pres.

Can anybody expand on these Killer pres of the Onyx mackie?
I've already heard one person compare them to the quality of Neve.

[zimv20]

Originally posted by gear chick

I've already heard one person compare them to the quality of Neve.

favorably?

[gear chick]

Yes, favorably. So far it seems people love them. I would like to get my hands on one, but I would like to know what the golden ears on this forum think.

[tINY]

You won't get many folk around here that will say anything good about any Mackie equipment (I guess it isn't Slutty enough).

Up until the Onyx, Mackie pre-amps have been designed for low-noise, wide-bandwidth, flat response, and low distortion. They also made an effort to keep costs in-line. Most people 'round here who want a "Pre" want something that adds color (even-order harmonic distortion, peaked response, a bit of transient instablity).

I thought the Onyx was going to answer some of these issues by adding some "color". So far, nobody is saying anything around here. I haven't had a chance to use them.


-tINY

[zimv20]

i found their VLZ pre's to be pretty crappy.

i'll be surprised if the new ones are as good as, say, an RNP.

[dasbin]

Originally posted by zimv20
i found their VLZ pre's to be pretty crappy.

i'll be surprised if the new ones are as good as, say, an RNP.

The new Onyx pres are a totally new design by a reputable designer with far less emphasis on cost-cutting components than previous generations.


The VLZ's aren't "crappy," per se, but they certainly aren't top-notch. They sound perfectly decent on a single track (so long as it's not an SM57/58), but I've found that the mids get somewhat cloudy when you're doing a mix full of them. This is due less to the design and more to the cheap opamps and caps.
It's still perfectly possible to get world-class results out of a Mackie, with enough effort.

[zimv20]

Originally posted by dasbin

The VLZ's aren't "crappy," per se, but they certainly aren't top-notch. They sound perfectly decent on a single track (so long as it's not an SM57/58), but I've found that the mids get somewhat cloudy when you're doing a mix full of them.

i've tried mixing a couple dozen such tracks, which led me to my conclusion of "crappy." i've mixed 32 tracks of RNP just fine: "not crappy."

i'm not declaring the onyx pre's crappy, i haven't worked with them. but i am skeptical.

[thebo]

Best value and high end mic pre, IMHO: Speck 5.0. I'm surprised there isn't more of a buzz about this superb piece of equipment. After demo'ing a Great River MP-2NV, RNP, Phoenix DRS-2, and Langevin DVC, I found it best suited for my needs. It delivers a solid, clear sound, gets "meatier" with the transformer engaged, and sports an excellent DI. Someone is selling one for cheap on the classifieds too. I'd grab it if I didn't already have two of them!