french pop tricks

maxim · 24th August 2004, 09:51 AM

since moving to france (and back in my russian childhood days), i enjoyed the french pop productions, especially, their attention to vocal and the ability to have a kitchen sink mix sound sweet and clear

i hear plates, delays and limiting

any tips from the slutz who have been involved in the process?

max
(currently, from oenpelli, oz)

vnt001 · 24th August 2004, 09:55 PM

as far as French Pop Electronica.....a few rules go in France:

1) Compress drums to death...emphasize bass drum compression...
2) Vocals must be touched up with vocoder or spacializer effect...good technique..emits more air in the mix to open it up to background instrumentation.
3) More compression on the back end mix...
4) And to top it off...slam it with an L2.

maxim · 25th August 2004, 01:08 PM

oh yes, the french electronica is something else again

they seem to be on the cutting edge of modern synthesis (perhaps, because, unlike most countries in the world, they actually spend money on music research... if you're ever in paris, visit the ircam building next to the georges pompidou centre, it'll blow your mind)

i'm more interested in the mainstream pop, though

cheers,
max

loudist · 25th August 2004, 06:39 PM

Because of the language, the vocal has to mixed much louder than most other languages because of the gutteral throat sounds.
That could have something to do with it.

RichT · 25th August 2004, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by loudist
Because of the language, the vocal has to mixed much louder than most other languages because of the gutteral throat sounds.
That could have something to do with it.

Who paid you for this gem?

oudplayer · 25th August 2004, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by vnt001
2) Vocals must be touched up with vocoder or spacializer effect...good technique..emits more air in the mix to open it up to background instrumentation.

That's because of their political ideologies, of course.

loudist · 25th August 2004, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by RichT
Who paid you for this gem?

You are on the hook for it.

RichT · 25th August 2004, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by loudist
You are on the hook for it.

Dammit, I want a refund!

Or at least a rendition of that classic French pop number J'taime...

Teacher · 25th August 2004, 08:16 PM

AZNAVOUR is DA MAN!

Bruce Keen · 25th August 2004, 10:16 PM

the bullshit generalisations some people get away with...

French music is generally different in that the lyrics are more important (or the music is less imoportant) and the vocals tend to be mixed quite a bit louder and often wetter than their english counterparts. Apart from that I don't really see anything in particular and I've done my share. French music is not just Aznavour Air and Daft Punk. One common thing I've seen quite often on long airy vocals is the DMX 1580 or any old delay floated into a EMT244 but that's not specific to french variety music. I would say that the pop and soul productions of the 70's period had a lot of serious arrangers and players that contributed a lot to a certain "French Touch" back then but that's all down the drain.

Oudplayer, you can check your political views at the door thank you. Whether a pun was intended or not is irrelevant.

Cheers

oudplayer · 25th August 2004, 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bruce Keen Oudplayer, you can check your political views at the door thank you. Whether a pun was intended or not is irrelevant.

Cheers

You need to search around these forums more. It's been an ongoing joke on this and other pro audio forums for the last couple of years and in no way reflects my/our actual political beliefs. Feel free to start an American-essentialist thread with similar remarks of your choosing. Humor is never irrelevant.

loudist · 25th August 2004, 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bruce Keen
Oudplayer, you can check your political views at the door thank you. Whether a pun was intended or not is irrelevant.

Cheers

Hmmm, aren't we a bit touchy...
Get over it, it was a joke (and a good one).
Looks like you checked your sense of humor at the door.

Quote:

Originally posted by Bruce Keen

the bullshit generalisations some people get away with...

French music is generally different in that the lyrics are more important (or the music is less imoportant) and the vocals tend to be mixed quite a bit louder and often wetter than their english counterparts.

Oh man... Too good, you validated your leading line with your own post!! hahahaha!

loudist · 26th August 2004, 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Teacher
AZNAVOUR is DA MAN!

Teach,
it was Serge Gainsbourg with Brigitte Bardot on that one.

tINY · 26th August 2004, 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bruce Keen

French music is generally different in that the lyrics are more important (or the music is less imoportant).....

And all the time I thought it was because they were speaking a foreign language. (If they'd just sing in English, I could understand and still hear the instruments.....)

-tINY

BrianK · 26th August 2004, 09:40 AM

In general. what Keen says is true; aside from the garagey '60's French bands who kinda yelped and hollered their way through the loud instrumentation!

Otherwsie - when one thinks of French pop - it IS the vocalist as an entity, rather than band or group mentality. So the vocals are stuck way out front. Not unlike Sinatra (Nancy) or 60's/70's American pop idols. Even with Serge's amazing rhythm tracks, they are cleverly arranged to support the vocal at all times. I also think it's why many "not great" French singers become famous - they don't have amazing voices, but they have character.

maxim · 26th August 2004, 01:43 PM

bruce wrote:

"... the vocals tend to be mixed quite a bit louder and often wetter than their english counterparts. ... One common thing I've seen quite often on long airy vocals is the DMX 1580 or any old delay floated into a EMT244 ..."

thanx, bruce, just the sort of info i was looking for

i agree also that the sixties and the seventies saw some great arrangements

jacques brel is my hero when it comes to songcraft/production (albeit that he's a belgian, and his "plat pays" is my favourite song ever)

i must say, i was expecting some kind of anti-french expressions from the more chauvinist of the group, but, guys, music is the universal language, non?

cheers
max

oudplayer · 26th August 2004, 05:30 PM

Favorite French album for the last 2 years:

Les Primitifs du Futur: World Musette.

Vocals are mixed very hot, as is the musette. Quintessential outdoor dinner party music. Uses "vintage recording techniques" to get that 20s sound, done beautifully. R. Crumb plays on this album...

studiomusic · 26th August 2004, 06:00 PM

Francis Cabrel and J.J. Goldman, 2 of the best song writers/poets (especially Cabrel) evah!
French is a great language for songs, just not rap or Vanessa Paradis (Depp's honey) tunes (Ma Petroleuse?...yech!)

Knastratt · 27th August 2004, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by loudist
Teach,
it was Serge Gainsbourg with Brigitte Bardot on that one.

No. It was Jane Birkin!

woodworm · 27th August 2004, 12:32 PM

"Je t'aime moi non plus"

Originally recorded by Gainsbourg and Bardot (actually written by Gainsbourg with Bardot in mind or for Bardot IIRC), but left unreleased upon Bardot's husband request at the time.

Re-recorded by Gainsbourg and Birkin (Gainsbourg's wife) and made into the success we all know.

The Bardot-Gainsbourg was later re-released anyway (fairly recently) and we can now undertand why Bardot's husband felt uncomfortable with it at the time - it was a far more... hum.... sensual interpretation.

The musical arrangement differs also between the two versions.

Right, time for me to go back and hide in my archives museum and do some dusting. A Plusse.

maxim · 27th August 2004, 01:14 PM

yes, apparently, it was a "live" recording

cheers
max

dave-G · 27th August 2004, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by loudist
hahahaha!

Not to be a pedant, but in this thread, that should be written as "hau-hau-hau-hau!"

(or optionally/regionally as "chaux-chaux-chaux-chaux!")

-dave

vincentvangogo · 13th September 2007, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrianK

I also think it's why many "not great" French singers become famous - they don't have amazing voices, but they have character.

I think the reason is simpler, its because people don't understand what they're singing about. Its a shame because people like Gainsbourg were rated in France as much for their lyrics and wordplay as their music, ('Je T'aime, Moi Non Plus' translates roughly as 'I Love You, Me Neither' for example.) Jacques Brel was another amazing lyricist, one of the greatest ever, but again all lost on most people because it just sounds likes 'haugh he haugh he haugh' set to music.

Grizzly · 13th September 2007, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by studiomusic

Francis Cabrel and J.J. Goldman, 2 of the best song writers/poets (especially Cabrel) evah!

Goldman's melodic strength is unquestionable, but he sure is not a poet ! - he wrote the dumbest lyrics of all-time french music IMO...

Cabrel wrote many beautiful songs but to me, Georges Brassens was by far the greatest french songwriter... Waaay up there...

MeatPye · 14th September 2007, 12:15 AM

We should have some love for Jean-Jacques Perrey's take on french pop, too. Very unique and wonderful.

He used a lot of bucket-brigade delays and tape-loops on many of his crazy Moog-laden productions.

Cosmic Closet · 14th September 2007, 12:44 AM

Let's not forget Le Animale Rock'n Roll, Monsieur Johnny Halliday.

I have heard live stuff of his in French which was pretty good, but real respect came when I saw him in a Sun Studio documentary doing 'Blue Suede Shoes' with Chris Spedding and one other great who escapes me right now. Nice unplugged moment, and proof that the man can rock.

Best,

Santiago · 21st September 2007, 08:51 AM

Of course, Gainsbourg rules, but in terms of contemporary French music I would really recommend Dominique A (particularly his albums Remue and Auguri) and Yann Tiersen (of Amelie soundtrack fame, but actually someone who makes quite radical music).

And, as bonus, a couple of excellent French producers/sound engineers: F. Lor and Dominique Brusson.

Santiago

Jack Luminous · 21st September 2007, 11:16 AM

Alain Bashung wrote some great pop songs.

Deif · 21st September 2007, 04:03 PM

does anyone know the name of the french singer who sang "Natalie" (or however it's spelled in french) .. it has to be late 50's/early 60s ... i've been listening to that song for 20 years and dont know who sings it.

jloyer · 21st September 2007, 06:38 PM

Nathalie : it was Gilbert Becaud (Mr 100.000 volts was his surname)

Jerome

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Modern pop/rock production "tricks"	XHipHop	So much gear, so little time!	34	20th January 2007 06:14 PM
a pop-rock tune and an acoustic pop song, my mixes, I'd like some critiques! thanks	flanger001	Work in progress / advice requested / Show & Tell / Artist showcase	14	28th March 2006 08:56 AM
Q for the French guys in the House:	Blast9	So much gear, so little time!	2	20th February 2006 11:54 PM
Old French Carol	Fran Guidry	Work in progress / advice requested / Show & Tell / Artist showcase	2	24th December 2005 10:26 PM
Any Irish or French Gearslutz out there?	mastermix	The good news channel	0	13th August 2005 03:59 PM

24th August 2004, 09:51 AM	#1
maxim Gear maniac Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 217	french pop tricks since moving to france (and back in my russian childhood days), i enjoyed the french pop productions, especially, their attention to vocal and the ability to have a kitchen sink mix sound sweet and clear i hear plates, delays and limiting any tips from the slutz who have been involved in the process? max (currently, from oenpelli, oz)

25th August 2004, 08:16 PM	#9
Teacher Lives for gear Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: NY Posts: 1,769	AZNAVOUR is DA MAN! __________________ "I hate it when they tell us how far we came to be, as if our people's history started with slavery...." Immortal Technique www.sicbeats.com

26th August 2004, 05:30 PM	#17
oudplayer Lives for gear Join Date: May 2003 Location: Silver Spring, MD Posts: 520	Favorite French album for the last 2 years: Les Primitifs du Futur: World Musette. Vocals are mixed very hot, as is the musette. Quintessential outdoor dinner party music. Uses "vintage recording techniques" to get that 20s sound, done beautifully. R. Crumb plays on this album... __________________ -oudplayer ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ World music recording, mixing, and mastering musiq.com myspace.com/oudplayer ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

26th August 2004, 06:00 PM	#18
studiomusic Gear nut Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Utah Posts: 118	zic Francis Cabrel and J.J. Goldman, 2 of the best song writers/poets (especially Cabrel) evah! French is a great language for songs, just not rap or Vanessa Paradis (Depp's honey) tunes (Ma Petroleuse?...yech!)

24th August 2004, 09:55 PM	#2
vnt001 Gear maniac Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: NYC Posts: 190	as far as French Pop Electronica.....a few rules go in France: 1) Compress drums to death...emphasize bass drum compression... 2) Vocals must be touched up with vocoder or spacializer effect...good technique..emits more air in the mix to open it up to background instrumentation. 3) More compression on the back end mix... 4) And to top it off...slam it with an L2.

25th August 2004, 01:08 PM	#3
maxim Gear maniac Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 217	oh yes, the french electronica is something else again they seem to be on the cutting edge of modern synthesis (perhaps, because, unlike most countries in the world, they actually spend money on music research... if you're ever in paris, visit the ircam building next to the georges pompidou centre, it'll blow your mind) i'm more interested in the mainstream pop, though cheers, max

25th August 2004, 06:39 PM	#4
loudist Lives for gear Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Earbleed, Iowa Posts: 590	Because of the language, the vocal has to mixed much louder than most other languages because of the gutteral throat sounds. That could have something to do with it.

25th August 2004, 10:16 PM	#10
Bruce Keen Gear maniac Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Paris France Posts: 178	the bullshit generalisations some people get away with... French music is generally different in that the lyrics are more important (or the music is less imoportant) and the vocals tend to be mixed quite a bit louder and often wetter than their english counterparts. Apart from that I don't really see anything in particular and I've done my share. French music is not just Aznavour Air and Daft Punk. One common thing I've seen quite often on long airy vocals is the DMX 1580 or any old delay floated into a EMT244 but that's not specific to french variety music. I would say that the pop and soul productions of the 70's period had a lot of serious arrangers and players that contributed a lot to a certain "French Touch" back then but that's all down the drain. Oudplayer, you can check your political views at the door thank you. Whether a pun was intended or not is irrelevant. Cheers

26th August 2004, 09:40 AM	#15
BrianK Gear addict Join Date: May 2003 Location: Hollywood Posts: 341	In general. what Keen says is true; aside from the garagey '60's French bands who kinda yelped and hollered their way through the loud instrumentation! Otherwsie - when one thinks of French pop - it IS the vocalist as an entity, rather than band or group mentality. So the vocals are stuck way out front. Not unlike Sinatra (Nancy) or 60's/70's American pop idols. Even with Serge's amazing rhythm tracks, they are cleverly arranged to support the vocal at all times. I also think it's why many "not great" French singers become famous - they don't have amazing voices, but they have character.

26th August 2004, 01:43 PM	#16
maxim Gear maniac Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 217	bruce wrote: "... the vocals tend to be mixed quite a bit louder and often wetter than their english counterparts. ... One common thing I've seen quite often on long airy vocals is the DMX 1580 or any old delay floated into a EMT244 ..." thanx, bruce, just the sort of info i was looking for i agree also that the sixties and the seventies saw some great arrangements jacques brel is my hero when it comes to songcraft/production (albeit that he's a belgian, and his "plat pays" is my favourite song ever) i must say, i was expecting some kind of anti-french expressions from the more chauvinist of the group, but, guys, music is the universal language, non? cheers max

27th August 2004, 12:32 PM	#20
woodworm Gear nut Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 108	je t'aime "Je t'aime moi non plus" Originally recorded by Gainsbourg and Bardot (actually written by Gainsbourg with Bardot in mind or for Bardot IIRC), but left unreleased upon Bardot's husband request at the time. Re-recorded by Gainsbourg and Birkin (Gainsbourg's wife) and made into the success we all know. The Bardot-Gainsbourg was later re-released anyway (fairly recently) and we can now undertand why Bardot's husband felt uncomfortable with it at the time - it was a far more... hum.... sensual interpretation. The musical arrangement differs also between the two versions. Right, time for me to go back and hide in my archives museum and do some dusting. A Plusse. __________________ Don't tell my mom I'm a sound engineer. She thinks I play the piano in a brothel (d'après Seguela).

27th August 2004, 01:14 PM	#21
maxim Gear maniac Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 217	yes, apparently, it was a "live" recording cheers max __________________ cheers max sydney, oz "I find love the most important thing in the world. It’s much more important than songs or music or bicycles or cars or mansions. And so, I’ve always chosen to write about love." Harlan Howard

14th September 2007, 12:15 AM	#25
MeatPye Gear nut Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 105	We should have some love for Jean-Jacques Perrey's take on french pop, too. Very unique and wonderful. He used a lot of bucket-brigade delays and tape-loops on many of his crazy Moog-laden productions.

14th September 2007, 12:44 AM	#26
Cosmic Closet Gear maniac Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 183	Let's not forget Le Animale Rock'n Roll, Monsieur Johnny Halliday. I have heard live stuff of his in French which was pretty good, but real respect came when I saw him in a Sun Studio documentary doing 'Blue Suede Shoes' with Chris Spedding and one other great who escapes me right now. Nice unplugged moment, and proof that the man can rock. Best, __________________ CC

21st September 2007, 08:51 AM	#27
Santiago Gear nut Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: London, UK Posts: 95	Of course, Gainsbourg rules, but in terms of contemporary French music I would really recommend Dominique A (particularly his albums Remue and Auguri) and Yann Tiersen (of Amelie soundtrack fame, but actually someone who makes quite radical music). And, as bonus, a couple of excellent French producers/sound engineers: F. Lor and Dominique Brusson. Santiago

21st September 2007, 11:16 AM	#28
Jack Luminous Gear Head Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Paris Posts: 50	Alain Bashung wrote some great pop songs.

21st September 2007, 04:03 PM	#29
Deif Gear Head Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 46	does anyone know the name of the french singer who sang "Natalie" (or however it's spelled in french) .. it has to be late 50's/early 60s ... i've been listening to that song for 20 years and dont know who sings it.

21st September 2007, 06:38 PM	#30
jloyer Gear interested Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: paris Posts: 21	Nathalie : it was Gilbert Becaud (Mr 100.000 volts was his surname) Jerome

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search
Display Modes	Rate This Thread
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode	Rate This Thread: