Favorite Pultec Clone for HF Boosts

[Benmrx]

Sorry to start another Pultec Clone thread, but I'm looking for some fairly specific opinions.

Every time I've ever been in a studio that had a real EQP-1A, I used it mostly for HF boosting, and not for "thicking" the kick or bass. I'm sure it does an unbelievable job at that, but I loved its 16Khz HF boosts too much.

The way I've done it before (and was taught as an assistant), was to put the Pultec on a buss, crank 16khz, and send a few key items there. Usually means snare and lead vocals for parrallel processing.

So, which clone should I get first (can always sell it right?) for this task. The only one I'm not interested in is the Manley, because I've used it, and didn't like it, at least not for this specific task. I have used the Tubetech once or twice, and I'll probably go that route (when the time comes) unless there's an overwhelming cry of posts to stay away from it.

[thethrillfactor]

I guess the old Hi End GSlut answer is due here:

If you like the sound of a 16khz Hi FREQ boost on an original EP1-A than that's what you will want to get. Last year when mixing a record on an 8068mkII with a metal knob 33609 on the mixbuss and a pair of EQP1A's after drove this home for me like a hammer hitting a nail. Every EQ we tried after made things smaller and brittle like(GML8200,GR-EQ2NV,EQP-200B) but the Pultecs were just sweet.thumbsup

Its probably one of the things that seperates it from all the other clones. The Summit EQP-200 always comes across metallic in this area(like most summit gear) and the Tubetech just doesn't shine enough. They both can do the low boost/cut thing(the Tubetech does this closer). The EQP-200B does better in the mids.

I haven't heard the Amtec but i have tried the Mercury,EAR & Manley and none give you the same High(excuse the pun).

[Benmrx]

Well......damnit, I'm gonna find out for myself I guess because there's no way I'm getting a Pultec any time soon (although I also never thought there'd be an HD system here, and now that's happening). But I do plan on going through the buy/sell process (used of course) untill I find something I like.

I was hoping that at least one of these clones could do a real sweet 16Khz boost, or at least that was the "highlite" on one of 'em. Like.....the tubetech has floppy lows, but a real sweet top end.....or something like that.

And I know it won't sound the same as the real deal, I just want something that will let me get that effect and still manage to keep a smile on my face.

Thanks for the reply thrill, appreciated as always.

Maybe an Amtec owner will chime in?

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by Benmrx

Well......damnit, I'm gonna find out for myself I guess because there's no way I'm getting a Pultec any time soon (although I also never thought there'd be an HD system here, and now that's happening). But I do plan on going through the buy/sell process (used of course) untill I find something I like.

I was hoping that at least one of these clones could do a real sweet 16Khz boost, or at least that was the "highlite" on one of 'em. Like.....the tubetech has floppy lows, but a real sweet top end.....or something like that.

And I know it won't sound the same as the real deal, I just want something that will let me get that effect and still manage to keep a smile on my face.

Thanks for the reply thrill, appreciated as always.

Maybe an Amtec owner will chime in?

Not many EQ's do well with boosting "air" freqs or the hi mids. The majority of EQ's(especially the modern ones) do better at cutting freqs' so just on that alone the choices are pretty limited. Look at what most of the top ME's use for opening up mixes up top or in the hi mids. Its pretty much the same things a Sontec and something else for a different flavor in the low mids or bottomn. A Sontec ME430 is easily what these days $9K?

Also Amtecs are what $2500-$3K bucks each?

You are still looking at $5K-$6K for a pair. Not cheap to say the least. A pair of EQP1A if you lurk in the shadows and pounce on them with cash on hand you may be able to snatch up for $8K if the seller is desperate. That's a $3k difference that to me is worth it and to someone else may be too much.

This is where it becomes a game of inches and centimeters but in the Hi End each inch imay set you back around $1K.

[Benmrx]

The thing is, I'm only looking for a single channel......at least for the moment, and my original plan was a PE1C. Seeing as those fetch closer to 1.5K used (same with the summit), it's much closer to reality for my current situation.....mid budget, early-90's studio.......at least that's what I'm going for. (maybe this shouldn't have been in the hi-end forum)

I've also wondered how the A-Designs hammer would work in this scenario.....even though it only goes to 15Khz. The fact that it's stereo would be a big bonus. It would be more of a stretch $$ wise, because there isn't much of a used market for it though.

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by Benmrx

The thing is, I'm only looking for a single channel......at least for the moment, and my original plan was a PE1C. Seeing as those fetch closer to 1.5K used (same with the summit), it's much closer to reality for my current situation.....mid budget, early-90's studio.......at least that's what I'm going for. (maybe this shouldn't have been in the hi-end forum)

I've also wondered how the A-Designs hammer would work in this scenario.....even though it only goes to 15Khz. The fact that it's stereo would be a big bonus. It would be more of a stretch $$ wise, because there isn't much of a used market for it though.

I only know the old stuff.

In my studio everything is pre 21st century.

But people rave around here about the Hammer so it may be worth checking out at least. Its got me curious and kinda skeptical at the same time.

A Summit EQP-200B or PE1C are good workhorse EQ's. Definitely here in NYC during the 90's you saw them everywhere(and still do). I've had both and eventually got rid of them. I thought the PE1C was better in the lows and the EQP-200b was better from middle up. I didn't like either on the mixbuss or on vocals so to me it was a moot point keeping them.

[Benmrx]

I'll probably end going with whichever one falls in my lap first, try it out and go from there. The tricky part is that now I'm trying to make gear purchases based on my needs, and how freelancers will see the place. Keep in mind, I'm talking low-mid budget projects here.

[princeplanet]

Originally Posted by thethrillfactor

I only know the old stuff.

In my studio everything is pre 21st century.

But people rave around here about the Hammer so it may be worth checking out at least. Its got me curious and kinda skeptical at the same time.

A Summit EQP-200B or PE1C are good workhorse EQ's. Definitely here in NYC during the 90's you saw them everywhere(and still do). I've had both and eventually got rid of them. I thought the PE1C was better in the lows and the EQP-200b was better from middle up. I didn't like either on the mixbuss or on vocals so to me it was a moot point keeping them.

Any of you chaps play with one of those old Lang eq's? A few peeps seem to think the highs are as sweet as the Pultecs.... and how about the 50hz on those old Langevin channels (AM4 or Am16 or something)?....

[Joe Porto]

I've got a couple Tubetech PE1-c (with NOS mullard tubes) and just sold the Summit EQP-200B. I much prefer the TT for the high end boosting, but the honest truth, since getting my Tonelux EQ4Ps (I now have 18), I never touch the TTs. Plus, I can fit 16 Tonelux in the same space as a single Tubetech.

The Tubetechs do look cool though. I'm not actively selling them, but feel free to PM me with an offer if you're interested.

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by Benmrx

I'll probably end going with whichever one falls in my lap first, try it out and go from there. The tricky part is that now I'm trying to make gear purchases based on my needs, and how freelancers will see the place. Keep in mind, I'm talking low-mid budget projects here.

Honestly bro i am a freelancer(going on for 23 years) as well and after awhile its all the same thing. An EQ, a compressor a mic pre, blah.blah.blah. These days for my clients i pick out studios based on 3 things:

1) Budget & location

2) Facility offerings-size and sound of live room and control room, lounge or place for clients friends to hang, take pictures,vibe. Also is there a place for people who like to light up or just smoke.

3) Console,mic selections, reverb(plate), big speakers,piano.

Things most people can't get at home in there project studios. That's really what will make them want to crawl out of their caves.

The outboard gear honestly i really don't think or care about since i own stuff that even the super hi end studios don't have. And if i need something esoteric i can always bring it. Basically the rack should have bread and butter stuff:

1) A really nice stereo mic pre for anything in stereo

2) A good vocal/bass tracking compressor

3) A good EQ for fixing things when needed

4) An H3000 or AMS 1580 DMX and 3 nice delays(need something for predelaying the plate and a 2 delays for pingpong delay)

5) A nice stereo compressor

But given the 2 EQ's you are thinking of i would lean to seeing an EQP-200B since they are in almost every hi end studio here in the city and i know what it sounds like an does. The TT PE1C you will probably need 2.

[Benmrx]

Wow Thrill, your post actually made me feel pretty good about my studio!

I've got all the things on your list, minus the bigs and the plate. I guess I forget that alot of freelancers that are actually working have their own racks of gear they're know and love.

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by princeplanet

Any of you chaps play with one of those old Lang eq's? A few peeps seem to think the highs are as sweet as the Pultecs.... and how about the 50hz on those old Langevin channels (AM4 or Am16 or something)?....

I know Allen Sides swears by the Langs.

I had one PEQ-2 for a while(95-99) and for some reason could never get on with it. It never really did it for me when mixing vocals and to me that is the tell tale sign for the usefulness of an EQ for me, especially when mixing songs with multiple vocalists and every piece of gear gets used up including the kitchen sink.

I always wanted to try the tube PEQ-1 which i heard was closer to the EQP-1A but never had the funds when they were available.

I eventually sold it with a Blue stripe 1176(package deal) for a ridiculously low price.

But that was B.G.
(B.G. stands for before Gearslutz).

[Benmrx]

Originally Posted by Joe Porto

I've got a couple Tubetech PE1-c (with NOS mullard tubes) and just sold the Summit EQP-200B. I much prefer the TT for the high end boosting, but the honest truth, since getting my Tonelux EQ4Ps (I now have 18), I never touch the TTs. Plus, I can fit 16 Tonelux in the same space as a single Tubetech.

The Tubetechs do look cool though. I'm not actively selling them, but feel free to PM me with an offer if you're interested.

I'm a sucker for looks........I know it. I've also read lots of great things regarding the tonelux EQ's, but I'm not ready just yet to jump on any of the "Rack/Frame" formats (X-Rack, Tonelux, API, Audient)........although honestly, the audient rack intrigues me the most.

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by Benmrx

Wow Thrill, your post actually made me feel pretty good about my studio!

I've got all the things on your list, minus the bigs and the plate. I guess I forget that alot of freelancers that are actually working have their own racks of gear they're know and love.

Then work on those things bro. Hearing the music on the big speakers at the end of the session makes the clients feel good and tracking guitars in the control room on the bigs gets the guitar players amped up. Also to hear the kick and bass relationship in the best light you need the big guns. Working on small nearfields+sub feels like a guessing game sometimes.

An EMT 140 plate in a studio is a rarity these days. You need the real estate for one which lots of people don't have. There are still some old school guys that seek out studios for one.

If given the choice between the latest whiz bang mic pre & compressor or the above as the basis for choosing the studio i would choose the above.

You will never have enough or the right amount of gear where some guy will walk in and not miss or want something. If you buy a Pendulum ES-8 there will be a guy who would prefer to see a Manley Vari-Mu. If you get a Vari-Mu there will be a guy who wants to see a Phoenix compressor. If you buy the Phoenix the guy who is used to seeing Fairchild's in LA studios will complain. Its a never ending battle making engineers happy. That's why most studios just make sure the bread and butter stuff are covered(look at the HI END studios outboard list and its pretty much the same thing everywhere) and if they want esoteric shit than its on them.

[Benmrx]

Originally Posted by thethrillfactor

Then work on those things bro. Hearing the music on the big speakers at the end of the session makes the clients feel good and tracking guitars in the control room on the bigs gets the guitar players amped up. Also to hear the kick and bass relationship in the best light you need the big guns. Working on small nearfields+sub feels like a guessing game sometimes.

An EMT 140 plate in a studio is a rarity these days. You need the real estate for one which lots of people don't have. There are still some old school guys that seek out studios for one.

If given the choice between the latest whiz bang mic pre & compressor or the above as the basis for choosing the studio i would choose the above.

You will never have enough or the right amount of gear where some guy will walk in and not miss or want something. If you buy a Pendulum ES-8 there will be a guy who would prefer to see a Manley Vari-Mu. If you get a Vari-Mu there will be a guy who wants to see a Phoenix compressor. If you buy the Phoenix the guy who is used to seeing Fairchild's in LA studios will complain. Its a never ending battle making engineers happy. That's why most studios just make sure the bread and butter stuff are covered(look at the HI END studios outboard list and its pretty much the same thing everywhere) and if they want esoteric shit than its on them.

Those are some good words sir. And when it comes time for "phase 2" of this studio (new location), I'll be taking those words to heart. But, I just don't see how putting mains in my control room is gonna happen. We just didn't build it that way. There was a budget of roughly $15K for actual materials to build the place out from scratch. One big empty concrete rectangle. A builder friend (former partner) and myself designed the place with some CAD help from my dad.

I think the place turned out great, but it does have it's limitations. I'll probably be here for 3 more years or so, then after that, if everythings going good............phase 2.

Also, I'm not trying to get to dreamy about pimping out my studio. There's a couple guys that come here pretty often, but with the addition of an HD system (this summer), I feel like I could get more. I won't need the extra business........unless of course I want to start playing music myself again on a regular basis......which is the whole reason for wanting to pimp out the studio.

[Fletcher]

Originally Posted by Benmrx

Maybe an Amtec owner will chime in?

OK... chiming.

I think the "air" from the Amtec is about the best I've heard in any Pultec clone... but that could just be me. I have found it to be 'smoother' than any of the others I've heard... for my purposes it's a great unit... but as always, YMMV.

Peace.

[Benmrx]

Originally Posted by Fletcher

OK... chiming.

I think the "air" from the Amtec is about the best I've heard in any Pultec clone... but that could just be me. I have found it to be 'smoother' than any of the others I've heard... for my purposes it's a great unit... but as always, YMMV.

Peace.

Thanks for joining the thread Fletcher. I just did a quick search on the Amtec and have 1 question if ya don't mind.

Is there really a 20Khz boost? If so, is it still hidden?

[Fletcher]

If there is one it's hidden pretty well. There's a 20kHz low pass filter but to the best of my knowledge the highest frequency of boost is 16kHz [and FWIW it may be worth I use the 12kHz setting far more often than the 16kHz setting].

[Lukpio]

Originally Posted by Benmrx

Is there really a 20Khz boost? If so, is it still hidden?

Hi,

let me answer the question.

Yes, there is the 20kHz peaking boost and it's still hidden, but it will be marked on the front panel on the next revision.

As a matter of fact, there is yet another hidden feature. If you turn the frequency selector yet one position clockwise, there is a SHELVING high frequency boost (of about 10kHz). It's a new feature that I incorporated a few weeks ago.

Hope that helps.

[Benmrx]

Just curious because I came across these posts during a quick search:

Originally Posted by bruno

theres 1 thing i don't understand.. 20khz boost frequancy is not listed on the faceplate.i discovered this by accident cos i usually don't read manuals. 20khz can do wonders sometimes. 40khz cut is excelent too!

After someone else mentioned it, this response came in:

Originally Posted by Lukpio

The very first units didn't have the 20kHz boost frequency, but soon I decided to add this feature. I had however a lot of front panels already made, so I just made it a kind of a hidden, "secret" feature...

EDIT: Looks like you beat me too it. Thanks for clearing that up.

[Benmrx]

Originally Posted by Lukpio

As a matter of fact, there is yet another hidden feature. If you turn the frequency selector yet one position clockwise, there is a SHELVING high frequency boost (of about 10kHz). It's a new feature that I incorporated a few weeks ago.

Just out of curiousity, when using this new 10K shelving feature, how does the "bandwidth" control come into play?

Also............out of curiousity, any news on your up-coming compressor?

[Lukpio]

Originally Posted by Benmrx

Just out of curiousity, when using this new 10K shelving feature, how does the "bandwidth" control come into play?

Also............out of curiousity, any news on your up-coming compressor?

The bandwidth control would only limit max. boost in this mode, so it should be kept in "sharp" position.

I'm working very hard on the compressor. As a matter of fact I'm working on 3 different compressors. I've been designing them for a few good years, so it's high time to release them.
The first one is a Fairchild-inspired tube variable-mu limiter, but with a trick to use readily available tubes instead of expensive and hard to find ones like the 6386. The same ultra-short topology as in the Fairchild, where VCA tubes drive the output transformer directly, but with additional features like separate attack control, selectable sidechain HP filter etc.

The second one will be a discrete class A transistor design with input and output transformers, which will use FET's as a gain reduction element, but it will not be a 1176-inspired unit. It will be entirely different and will use the FET's in a configuration that to my knowledge has never been used in audio before.

The third one will be a small surprise... And this one will be released first.

[vibralux]

Havent tried other Pultec clones, but used Amtec – it really kicks ass in this department - it's just like it says in the note submitted with it – „works almost in an exciter fashion” - perfect for vocals and whole mixes. Love it.
Try it – if You wont like it I am pretty shure You will find someone who will buy it from You. But it wont be necessary

Cheers

Marty

[nicolasixxx]

I would love to hear from someone who has done a side by side comparison of the Amtec and Mercury clones. Anyone?

Nic

[keepthefunkalive]

We have the EAR 822 here at Climax Mastering...
They sound wonderfull, especially for boosting highs.

[dandeurloo]

Maybe try the Drip Pultec? From the guys I know that have one they say its amazing and end up getting a few of them.

Pultec EQP1A

[M.o.T.s]

You may want to check this:
The World of Clones - Pro Audio Vintage Clones by gigidesign

I'm digging their sound clips.

[once a roadie]

Another cheaper approach might be the five fish carhill inductor eqs. The air band is quite convincing and is an eq that makes your head look up to see where the highs are coming from (sounds like the highs come from above the speakers) and I can't say thus about the Midas console eq or clariphonic or hammer. Fivefish air band is pretty sweet in this dimension. It is not a pultec design though so you will have to cut with a separate eq if you want the boost/ cut interaction.


Posted via the Gearslutz iPhone app

[Jim Williams]

Originally Posted by keepthefunkalive

We have the EAR 822 here at Climax Mastering...
They sound wonderfull, especially for boosting highs.

EAR's are a very good Pultec clone. British too. If you want to move 16 k up to 20 k, just derate the EQ cap -25% in value. Or, install a switch and make it selectable.

[Flightcase Recs]

I use the Thermionic Rooster for exactly the way you described. I send a stereo aux from select tracks and run them throughout the Rooster cranking up the "hi" setting in the mid lift. It adds a really classy high end prescence that enhances and sheens the mix nicely. I usually also end up giving it a little attitude also when the mix needs more steam. And the low boost is also just as handy parallel to beef up drums.

The rooster valve eq is really really basic but really really good. Plus the pre and distortion sections are excellent. Very versatile and maybe good if you're looking for lots of tricks in One box.