Summing options: Manley mixer or D2B

[Shaman]

Hi there,

I´m thinking about several options for analog summing.

Since I´m a big fan of Manley gear ( I have Slam, Massive Passive, Vari Mu ) I´m considering the Manley Mixer.
The problem is - It´s not available as a test device in Germany.

Are there some Manley 16/2 Mixer analog summing users out there, who compared it to other summing boxes ?

The Manley has tubes only on the 2-buss- not in the single channels.It´s headroom is about 4 db higher than of the D2B.
But it´s 3 X the price of the d2B.

I´m wondering if I could achieve similar results with:

D-2b --> VariMu with some tube drive on the input ?

or

Folcrom --> SLAM ?

To put it simple: I get 3 D2B for the price of the Manley and have a nice 5.1 analog summing. Is the Manley still worth its price for summing ?

Thanks

[The MPCist]

I use one. I like it because it's more than a summing box. I can track with it (I have the micpre version), use it as my main mixer,e tc.

If you like other Manley equipment, you'll like this.

[guru007]

I've used the Manley Mixer for summing and it was wonderful. Then when I got my SLAM I added a Folcrom and now use that for summing instead. The Folcrom->SLAM mixes seem wider and more open to me, but that could have been me driving the Manley Mixer harder.

And, oh yeah, the ability to use the SLAM AES Outs -> my LynxTWO AES IN means I have some interesting new options to play with.

One cool plus of having the mixer is the control section. Very convenient and could save you from having to shell out for a monitor box.

ymmv,

guru007

P.S. One last thing, the mixer, and it's hefty power supply, get plenty hot. Make sure your AC is upto snuff - these two kept me plenty warm on cold winter days in the studio

[jho]

I know you didn't ask, but I'm luving the API 8200 system (I have 8200A and 8200 Aux)... I LOVE the fact I can do all my insert points OUTSIDE the daw without having to do DA/-A/D again.

Oh and it's phat...

[Shaman]

Originally posted by guru007
... Then when I got my SLAM I added a Folcrom and now use that for summing instead...

Does somebody mix 5.1 with 3 x Folcrom ?

[SMA]

I use the D2B, although it took me a while to get used to working with it due to the way it effects the sound when compared to mixing itb. The D2B enhances low end detail and punch, helping to add clarity and separation to the kick, bass, and other low instruments. It also seems to help control sibilant/crisp frequency ranges, although that might be an illusion due to the stronger low end. Finally, it makes my mixes sound more "integrated" and "radio ready" with a lot less work than mixing itb. I think the most important thing is that my D2B mixes are easier and more pleasant to listen to, at least to my ears. Anyway, acheiving a pleasant effect without having to resort to excessive EQ is a plus to me.

[Ted Nightshade]

That's fascinating about the Folcrom into the SLAM!. The 16x2 is basically a nice simple high quality solid state front end and a mix bus going to a Manley mic preamp circuit for make-up gain. I haven't used it, but I have done passive summing with a Manley Dual Mono as the make-up gain, and I had been thinking about a system where you could use any pre of your choice for the make-up gain, and here's the Folcrom. How cool!

The Manley mixer power supply and just size and heat has always been a counterindication to me. I have enough heavy gear that wants to overheat, what with these beautiful Manley 440 monoblocks! They'll heat yer house, that's for sure.

SLAM! also has enough patch possibilities to do a pretty flexible mixdown with whatever other outboard. And expandable to *great* converters! So the SLAM!/Folcrom will take you all the way into digital in great shape.

Of course you could always put the output of the 16x2 right into the SLAM! ADC...

[kevinc]

Don`t forget about the Speck Xtramix !!

It`s less than half the price of the Manley with way way way more routing options.

Don`t let the price tag fool you. It sounds fantastic.

[genericperson]

Shaman, I private messaged you on this...take a look at your GS mailbox.

[Shaman]

Thanks a lot for all your replys !

I think, I´ll walk the folcrom / d2b route.

Since I allready have lots of outboard to colour my 2 buss / a Spider for tracking half of the Manley to me is redundant.

For the $ of the Manley I´ll buy one of these two, a big ben + a Grace m 906 instead - this makes more sense to my monitoring / summing/ overall sound situation.

BTW - during the AES Berlin I was talking to SSL about the release of an external 19" version of their 9000J summing buss, since that would be the only thing, that would make sense to me instead of their "monster DAW controller".
They said, this could be an option in the future....

[Fletcher]

Originally posted by kevinc
Don`t forget about the Speck Xtramix !!

... and start thinking about the Speck LiLo... we just got one and damn it sounds great... I'll be back from vacation in a week and hopefully by then the rest of it will be wired up... 32 inputs with 4 aux's, insert points, yada, yada, yada... The initial playing with it we did [in place of the PM-1000 side car] went seriously well... well enough to wire the whole thing up to the patchbay [which is indeed a commitment]

I'm quite psyched about getting all of it hooked up!!!

[Jim Williams]

Originally posted by Fletcher
... and start thinking about the Speck LiLo... we just got one and damn it sounds great... I'll be back from vacation in a week and hopefully by then the rest of it will be wired up...

Enjoy that vacation, remember, if you bring your work with you it isn't a vacation!

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

Also on vacation next week Jeepin' in the High Sierra's.

[Revelation]

I found someone that has the Manley mixer and he loves it. They are cleaner pre's than the other Manely pre's which he likes. However there is a touch of smoothness due to the output tubes in the Mixer. He swears by it, and actually bought a 2nd for his studio. Very high quality build, clean open sound, solid switches, and nice VU meters.

[kevinc]

Originally posted by Fletcher
... and start thinking about the Speck LiLo... we just got one and damn it sounds great... I'll be back from vacation in a week and hopefully by then the rest of it will be wired up... 32 inputs with 4 aux's, insert points, yada, yada, yada... The initial playing with it we did [in place of the PM-1000 side car] went seriously well... well enough to wire the whole thing up to the patchbay [which is indeed a commitment]

I'm quite psyched about getting all of it hooked up!!!

Yeah the Lilo looks awesome !

I remember first hearing about that years ago and it seemed like the perfect mixing solution even back than.

I`d like to get one in place of the Xtramix one of these days.

[Cluster]

Also The Nautilus Commander (?) is supposed to be out soon. Steve Furlotte designed it or at least helped in the design. I was going to get my hands on a SBM-2 but they're out of production so I called Steve and he turned me on to the nautilus which is supposed to be sort of the same box but only with 8 ins instead of 16. Very nice guy by the way.

[stedel]

Originally posted by kevinc
Yeah the Lilo looks awesome !

Well yeah..apart from the Meter Bridge, which looks, well...naff. Great concept though. And I've tried contacting API re an Australian Distributor, but no reply. Not being familiar with the Folcrum I just visited their site. And well....I do have a Manley SLAM, and my first thought after reading
the Folcrum blurb is....
$1000???!!!!! Yep. Just re-read it. $1000?
A stella sound for $1000?
Not that I doubt them, but geez, I could buy one of these and still have enough food to get through to Sunday!
So my question (possibly to myself) is
A stella sound for $1000 - and I still get to eat on Saturday night?

[e-cue]

Originally posted by stedel
Well yeah..apart from the Meter Bridge, which looks, well...naff. Great concept though. And I've tried contacting API re an Australian Distributor, but no reply. Not being familiar with the Folcrum I just visited their site. And well....I do have a Manley SLAM, and my first thought after reading
the Folcrum blurb is....
$1000???!!!!! Yep. Just re-read it. $1000?
A stella sound for $1000?
Not that I doubt them, but geez, I could buy one of these and still have enough food to get through to Sunday!
So my question (possibly to myself) is
A stella sound for $1000 - and I still get to eat on Saturday night?

The Folcum can be had in the states for around $750, but something you have to consider is that you'll need to supply 2 channels of mic pre for make up gain.

I'd put another vote in for the Manley over the D2B. Mine has 16 pre's in it and when set to 0 accepts line inputs. Basically, I got it because the pre's make it in incredible deal. I really love it on orchestral instruments, and like the pre's much more than the stand alone Manley pre's I've used in the past. The mixer sounds tons better than the D2B IMO. I haven't used the Folcum yet.

[stedel]

Originally posted by e-cue
The Folcum can be had in the states for around $750, but something you have to consider is that you'll need to supply 2 channels of mic pre for make up gain.

I'd put another vote in for the Manley over the D2B. Mine has 16 pre's in it and when set to 0 accepts line inputs. Basically, I got it because the pre's make it in incredible deal. I really love it on orchestral instruments, and like the pre's much more than the stand alone Manley pre's I've used in the past. The mixer sounds tons better than the D2B IMO. I haven't used the Folcum yet.

Erm got the mic-pre's, hence the interest in all things dangerous.

And I love Manley gear (got some) so there's no argument with me re the mixer, it's just that where I am fiscally, re my above post...we would be talking about me eating somewhere post Christmas - and no this isn't complaining about Manleys prices, or Specks, or Dangerous Bus's pricing. Quality costs....but $750? How can this be? It just doesn't sum up.

which is my point. Erm...Boom Boom? People are talking about it as being in the same league as some of the others. But then they said that about the American Basketball team before the Olympics



just thought I'd mix it up a bit there

[Revelation]

The more I read, and hear Manley gear, the more I am impressed with them. Though you may not care for all of their products flavor, everyone admits they are better very well, with only the highest quality parts. Go for the Manley!

[Teacher]

Originally posted by stedel
Quality costs....but $750? How can this be? It just doesn't sum up.

Well the Catch is you need a $1500+ pre amp to unlock its full potential. Which pushes it closer to 2500 or more depending on your pre, if you look at it that way it prices pretty close to the D2b

[e-cue]

Originally posted by stedel
Erm got the mic-pre's, hence the interest in all things dangerous.

I'm a missing something? The Dangerous 2 Bus doesn't require pre's. The Folcum does (Shaman's orignal post doesn't mention mic pre's for the Folcum, just a Slam). If you have pre's, I would've thought you'd be interested in the Folcum not the D2B.

Originally posted by stedel
And I love Manley gear (got some) so there's no argument with me re the mixer, it's just that where I am fiscally, re my above post...we would be talking about me eating somewhere post Christmas - and no this isn't complaining about Manleys prices, or Specks, or Dangerous Bus's pricing. Quality costs....but $750? How can this be? It just doesn't sum up.

Nice pun at the end there. I noticed ShipShape (and others) were digging the Crane Song Flamingo with the Folcum. That would put the total cost at ($750 + $2600) around $3350(us), vs the Dangerous 2 bus at @$2600(us). Of course, you could use cheaper pre's. Or if you have a wide variety of pre's, you could use different ones for different flavor, which is more versitile. If you are broke, you could always DIY one with a handful of resistors, a patchbay, and a roll of solider, but that's sorta a PITA, doesn't look as nice, and isn't as functional as a Folcum.

Originally posted by stedel
which is my point. Erm...Boom Boom? People are talking about it as being in the same league as some of the others. But then they said that about the American Basketball team before the Olympics



just thought I'd mix it up a bit there

I think the Manley MIXER is about 3 times better than the D2B, panning being a big part on top of that. Once you factor in the mic pre's, I think it's a much better value.

This is easily the worst USA B ball team we've had since we started letting NBA players in. Lots of nancyboys. Their loses have not been a suprise at all.

[stedel]

Originally posted by e-cue
I'm a missing something? The Dangerous 2 Bus doesn't require pre's. The Folcum does (Shaman's orignal post doesn't mention mic pre's for the Folcum, just a Slam). If you have pre's, I would've thought you'd be interested in the Folcum not the D2B.



Nice pun at the end there. I noticed ShipShape (and others) were digging the Crane Song Flamingo with the Folcum. That would put the total cost at ($750 + $2600) around $3350(us), vs the Dangerous 2 bus at @$2600(us). Of course, you could use cheaper pre's. Or if you have a wide variety of pre's, you could use different ones for different flavor, which is more versitile. If you are broke, you could always DIY one with a handful of resistors, a patchbay, and a roll of solider, but that's sorta a PITA, doesn't look as nice, and isn't as functional as a Folcum.



I think the Manley MIXER is about 3 times better than the D2B, panning being a big part on top of that. Once you factor in the mic pre's, I think it's a much better value.

This is easily the worst USA B ball team we've had since we started letting NBA players in. Lots of nancyboys. Their loses have not been a suprise at all.

Erm...I don't know. Maybe I'm misssing something. I thought that the Folcrum was more along the lines of the DangerousBus ie. an analog summing device after the DAW. Also if your main interest is summing then I think comparisons with the Manley Mixer are a bit....extended. The Mixer provides additional functions than the Dangerous Bus. A more useful comparison between the two, as far as I understand it, would be if you had the Dangerous Bus and the Dangerous mixer unit. Which starts to not only increase the price BUT also increases the number and kind of functions you want to perform outside of the DAW. Also kind of makes both the number of channels that your ADC/DAC's provide and their quality even more critical.

Basically my interest is in summing, otherwise I'd be hocking my son's basketball shoes to go totally analogue in my mixing or getting something like the Speck Lilo, which, as I said, may LOOK a bit naff with the VU's, but LOOKS don't take away anything (and if it does you could live with it) from the function and design aims (including VU's which I love) and implementation of the Lilo - which I think are pretty cool.

BTW just to clarify, I'm not necessarily against working totally ITB - it's actually something that I'm also working on in my own situation - it's just that for the final stages I PREFER analog. My main gripe about all In The Box has to do with...well sensory deprivation.

Kind regards

[genericperson]

Shaman's got pres. I'm actually surprised he's looking into this, because he seems to me one of the people "who has everything".



his website looks awesome too. but i can't understand all the "ich bin ein schaumshleiger pirne kopf" German stuff.

[kevinc]

Originally posted by e-cue
This is easily the worst USA B ball team we've had since we started letting NBA players in. Lots of nancyboys. Their loses have not been a suprise at all.

BIGTIME nancy sissy boys. dfegad

Lebron and Duncan are the only two I can think of that are really great players (Allen Iverson sucks !) and Lebrons still a kid.

Carlos Boozer is an up and coming player but really has no place whatsoever on a " dream team "

****in lame man.

I`m movin to Europe so I can see some real basketball !

[squizz]

Originally posted by kevinc
BIGTIME nancy sissy boys. dfegad

Lebron and Duncan are the only two I can think of that are really great players (Allen Iverson sucks !) and Lebrons still a kid.

Carlos Boozer is an up and coming player but really has no place whatsoever on a " dream team "

****in lame man.

I`m movin to Europe so I can see some real basketball !

"Iverson sucks and boozer is up and coming" the team has carmelo and wade yet you mention boozer. the team doesnt suck it just is a flawed team with alot of guys that pretty much play the exact same position and no role players. Fact of the matter is they are the best team on the floor talent wise every night.

The difference between them and other dream teams is other dream teams all had at least 2 or 3 jump shooters and roll players that could take some of the pressure off the stars. In the internatioal game you NEED jump shooters cause everybody plays zone and the three point line is closer in. You cant stand outside and dribble for half an hour like you can in the NBA cause everyone plays man.

[kevinc]

Originally posted by squizz
"Iverson sucks and boozer is up and coming" the team has carmelo and wade yet you mention boozer. the team doesnt suck it just is a flawed team with alot of guys that pretty much play the exact same position and no role players. Fact of the matter is they are the best team on the floor talent wise every night.

The difference between them and other dream teams is other dream teams all had at least 2 or 3 jump shooters and roll players that could take some of the pressure off the stars. In the internatioal game you NEED jump shooters cause everybody plays zone and the three point line is closer in. You cant stand outside and dribble for half an hour like you can in the NBA cause everyone plays man.

Sorry fella. There is NO comparison talent wise with ANY of the previous dream teams and this one.

The previous dream teams had the best talent the NBA had to offer and this one is no where near that.

They DO have all the positions accounted for they`re just not the best the NBA has to offer at those positions.

Carmello is probably a future hall of famer. He IS a rookie though and I was mentioning the people that SHOULDn`t be there not the ones that should.

Richard Jefferson shouldn`t be there period. His quality of play as of late is a product of Jason Kidd and nothing else.

This isn`t even close to what the US could have brought and a lot of it`s due to the better players simply refusing to play.

[thethrillfactor]

Originally posted by kevinc
Sorry fella. There is NO comparison talent wise with ANY of the previous dream teams and this one.

The previous dream teams had the best talent the NBA had to offer and this one is no where near that.

They DO have all the positions accounted for they`re just not the best the NBA has to offer at those positions.

And whose fault is this?

Shaq,Kobe,Garnett,Vince Carter all pulled out with excuses.

They are the true sissy's.grudge

The guys who are playing all volunteered to go there and represent.

I totally respect that, flawed or not.

A. Iverson is playing with a broken hand. After the games he is not ducking the media.

They have 2 of the best coaches, Brown and Popovich there and all they do is throw their hands up and complain about the state of basketball today.

FuKK that sh*t!!!

Start acting like hall of fame coaches and find a way to win.

[zimv20]

call me old fashioned, but i liked it better when the US sent amateurs. the drama of the hockey win over the soviets will never be duplicated w/ pros.

regarding the current BB team, i don't care how good the individuals are, it's a team sport. if they don't play as a team, then they deserve to lose. kudos to the teams who play together.

[squizz]

i wasnt saying they were the best dream team, i am saying they are better than all the other countries teams talent wise one. It has nothing to do with not having the best players, the countries third and fourth tier players can go oversees and kick ass if the team was assembled properly.

They have a team full of two gaurds and small forwards, no true point guards, shooters or a true big man (Duncan is not a center). If they filled those psitions properly they would be stomping teams. Jefferson, carmelo, lebron, marion, and odom all play the same position. Iverson and Marbury are pretty much the same player (no need for the redunacy), same goes for Boozer, Stoudimire, and Okafor. If they had a true point gaurd (like bibby or Kidd) a true center (ben wallace) , and a couple shooters (ray allen, richard hamilton, allen houston, michael redd) they would be fine.

In international play your two gaurd and small fowards need to be shooters not play makers. this team is full of playmakers and no finisher, to many scorers and no passers. Its good to have playmakers but the team cant be full of them. Just 3 or 4 should be enough, not 12. If theres twelve playmakers and non of them are good shooters then how is standing outside so the other team cant clog the lane.

And Jefferson is good he's a role player and thats what the team needs, he just should not be starting. he should be coming off the bench and diving for loose balls and stuff. remember he was chosen to the team before anybody dropped out. that should say alot.

[thethrillfactor]

Originally posted by squizz


They have a team full of two gaurds and small forwards, no true point guards, shooters or a true big man (Duncan is not a center). If they filled those psitions properly they would be stomping teams. Jefferson, carmelo, lebron, marion, and odom all play the same position. Iverson and Marbury are pretty much the same player (no need for the redunacy), same goes for Boozer, Stoudimire, and Okafor. If they had a true point gaurd (like bibby or Kidd) a true center (ben wallace) , and a couple shooters (ray allen, richard hamilton, allen houston, michael redd) they would be fine.

.

First of all there are no more true centers in basketball that are Americans(with the exception being Shaq).

Same goes for the point guards(only Kidd and he had his knee operated on).

Brown personally asked Richard Hamilton and he said no.

Ray Allen said no.

Allen Houston is a bust if there was ever one(and he is probably done any way).

Again the guys that went all wanted to represent the country.

They have had no time to practice together.

All of the other countries have had up to 6 months.

I believe that they will get it together.thumbsup