Raidohead - In Rainbows - Production questions

[Jack P]

I dig the pictures of the recording with the vintage API console..

[Tom H]

This is clearly Thom sitting behind a Malcolm Toft Audio series 980.

Malcolm seems to be very proud they use his console cause he keeps bragging about it!

[MyNameIsChris]

Originally Posted by dylansmale

no, those aren't the best albums. Their new stuff is way more futuristic, probably by light years.

Since when is futuristic inherently an improvement? Besides... just because the touchstones were slightly more out of the mainstream (i.e. Aphex Twin, Can, DJ Shadow et al) doesn't mean the later records weren't heavily influenced by previous work... just not as recognizable to an average pop music listener as Sexy Sadie popping up in Karma Police.

For what it's worth, I don't think they've made a bad record aside from the first one. And Kid A may (on some days) be my favorite, but I could certainly make an argument that the inspired orchestrated guitar perfection of The Bends, or certainly the era defining OK Computer both trump the comparatively scattered Amnesiac or the overlong Hail To The Thief. Not that these are by any means bad records... on a different day I'd argue Amnesiac is brilliant for containing both some of their best songs alongside some of the most experimental. My point is, I don't think discounting The Bends or OK Computer for not being "futuristic" enough is completely missing the point.

[Jack P]

DEAD AIR SPACE

Scroll down this link to the 17th APRIL and they are using a vintage API console - there's
other kool pictures on their webspace..

[Tom H]

Originally Posted by Jack P

DEAD AIR SPACE

Scroll down this link to the 17th APRIL and they are using a vintage API console - there's
other kool pictures on their webspace..

They must have caught the same API fever most gearslutz have...

Very cool they are keeping up this diary. thumbsup

[recall]

I read somewhere that most of the verb used on the albumwas taken from the Tottenham house sessions, in that Godrich took impulses of the hall room into altiverb or whatever.

Worked pretty well I reckon.

Also I think the drums for Nude were done with Coles ribbons.

[chrisso]

They use Toft desks - they don't.
They use API - that's bullshit.
They use PT LE - no, they use Logic.

etc, etc, etc.


I'm pretty sure the band use whatever, and concentrate on the songs, the guitars, the drums and the way they play.

You could put Radiohead in a $10 an hour project studio and they would 1) sound the same, and 2) produce the same kind of songs.

[Silver Sonya]

If you read this article, the band expresses its notorious and oft-repeated disdain for gear nerds and audiophiles.

It's a myth that the band are intense and finnicky about gear. It's an understandable misconception because of the "cinematic" aspects of their production. But, in many respects, there is an irreverent punk rock side to Radiohead. They don't actually give a f**k. They're just really, really, really good. They use the same tools we all use. Except that they make more interesting choices with them.

They hire a great producer/engineer (Godrich), get to work and focus on the arrangements and feel. Yorke is heavily into laptop music production, but for the most part the "technical" aspect is left to Godrich. They're excellent musicians with a songwriting vision. And they pursue that.

In other words, they have good taste. They have ideas.

That's it, people.

-- c

[bwaudio]

Anyone seen the episode of South Park about mormons, where after every verse you hear "DUMB DUMB DUMB DUMB DUMB"?

It seems somehow relevant here....

[CeretoneAudio]

here is a picture from the extra disc that came with in rainbows.

you can see

Api console
mac running protools
ns 10 s
8 x 1081 modules
1176s
studer tape machine

not sure on the rest

[Dean7]

Originally Posted by Silver Sonya

If you read this article, the band expresses its notorious and oft-repeated disdain for gear nerds and audiophiles.

It's a myth that the band are intense and finnicky about gear. It's an understandable misconception because of the "cinematic" aspects of their production. But, in many respects, there is an irreverent punk rock side to Radiohead. They don't actually give a f**k. They're just really, really, really good. They use the same tools we all use. Except that they make more interesting choices with them.

They hire a great producer/engineer (Godrich), get to work and focus on the arrangements and feel. Yorke is heavily into laptop music production, but for the most part the "technical" aspect is left to Godrich. They're excellent musicians with a songwriting vision. And they pursue that.

In other words, they have good taste. They have ideas.

That's it, people.

-- c

Isn't that the case with everything? This reminds me of "holy grail syndrom" with guitarists where they track down pedals manufactured in the same factory / same year as their favorite players and pay an arm and a leg.

[Silver Sonya]

Originally Posted by Dean7

Isn't that the case with everything? This reminds me of "holy grail syndrom" with guitarists where they track down pedals manufactured in the same factory / same year as their favorite players and pay an arm and a leg.

Word! The world is full of people like that.

To some extent, it's just the nature of being a fan, though. So I try not to view it too harshly.

When I was younger, I was guilty of it as well. I gravitated to playing a Rickenbacker because two of my favorite guitarists (1, 2) used one . So I'm not condescending here. It's a misguided concept, but I think it's a phase that a lot of artists go through. Maybe even a necessary one.

I mean, even the Beatles were emulating Little Richards' trademark "Tutti Frutti" WoooooOOOO howl when they sang "She Loves You." Check it out, it's a pretty direct homage.

- c

[roger]

the resulting record would NOT sound the same coming out of a $10 an hour studio....that's a stupid suggestion. and while they may not be particularly anal about what mic is gonna go on what amp etc they ARE extremely finicky about their guitar tones and how they arrive at them etc....i read an interview with the live engineer on their last big tour who said he just had to put mics up and capture the magic because they had spent sooooo much time and energy getting the tones and effects they wanted....and don't tell me nigel don't give a shit about gear and technology.....he prides himself in making beautiful sounding records and you don't get there by not giving a shit about the gear you are using. bah!......the songs themselves.....well it's radiohead!

[Silver Sonya]

Originally Posted by roger

they resulting record would NOT sound the same coming out of a $10 an hour studio....that's a stupid suggestion. and while they may not be particularly anal about what mic is gonna go on what amp etc they ARE extremely finicky about their guitar tones etc....i read an interview with the live engineer on their last big tour who said he just had to put mics up and capture the magic because they had spent sooooo much time and energy getting the tones and effects they wanted....and don't tell me nigel don't give a shit about gear and technology.....he prides himself in making beautiful sounding records and you don't get there by not giving a shit about the gear you are using. bah!......the songs themselves.....well it's radiohead!

Yes, they are choosy about guitar tones by extension of arrangement choices. So, yes, that's true. Yorke will play an SG on certain things, a tele on others, etc. as the songs demand. And there are effects pedals at their feet, for sure.

And yes, Godrich is very intense at the technical level. No question. This is what I said. That is a large part of his job. And he's truly brilliant at it.

And yes, there is money put into their records and a high production value. This is clear.

But the band have stated many, many, many times that they despise gear nerds and audiophiles who obsess on details and process and minutiae. There is a very important punk side to Radiohead which prevents them from sinking into an unwieldy or pompous "prog rock" thing, although there are aspects of their music which dangerously court that world.

I bet there is a portion of Radiohead's fanbase who relate to Radiohead on a "prog" level, totally getting off on the grandeur and ambition and marvelling at the musicianship, etc. I can also understand why people called "OK Computer" a millenial take on Pink Floyd. But what saves the band from these comparisons --- and this is very, very important!--- is the irreverent, rip-it-up-and-start-again punk side. Even the band's incorporation of elements of electronica has origins in a punk mindset.

A lot of musicians who take influence from the band don't know how to digest that part. They focus instead on the fancy gear. Young musicians who are influenced by Radiohead tend to get way into pedals and noodly, arty guitar "soundscaping" wankery that rings emotionally hollow. In so doing, they miss a vital component of what makes the band great, which is a f*ck-it-all spirit.

That's my only point, ultimately.

- c

[chrisso]

Originally Posted by roger

they resulting record would NOT sound the same coming out of a $10 an hour studio....that's a stupid suggestion.

Not at all.
A big part of a great band is THE SONGS!!!!

Next is the performance.

The gear is just a tool to convey the performance of the songs.

I bet if Radiohead recorded on the cheap, they would sound virtually identical.

[roger]

i dunno if i am hearing a 'f*$k it all spirit' and a punk (in it's original form with your assumed intended meaning) aesthetic in their music....listen to thom's solo record....he obviously sat there for many many hours chopping up beats and manipulating sounds to arrive at those sounds and songs...some would call THAT wankery (?).....now that production method is not very 'punk' if you ask me.
now i know that a radiohead record isn't a thom solo record but they aren't that dissimilar.........now they may harbour hatred for gearslutz but they don't hate the gear or what it can do/they can do with it........this is a good discussion......we may end up agreeing to disagree but i guess we're both fans.......i'm seeing them in victoria park in june - i can imagine i'll end up about a mile away from the stage staring at a big screen.....a mate of mine got into a 'secret' show they did a coupla months back....tiny venue....200 people....he said it was incredible (sigh).

add-on: chrisso i am pretty sure we'd all hear a difference if they did it on the cheap....why do you think they DIDN'T do it on the cheap?...apparently they don't give a shit......i'm pretty sure they do! as i said before: the songs are why we love the band - but the recordings also happen to be lovely which is a bonus!

[Tom H]

Originally Posted by chrisso

A big part of a great band is THE SONGS!!!!

Next is the performance.

The gear is just a tool to convey the performance of the songs.

I bet if Radiohead recorded on the cheap, they would sound virtually identical.

Really, didn't we kill that horse yet?

Let's just asume that most of us realize this simple fact about music... of course it starts with the songs, and a song determins the largest part of the sound. The OP asked a question about Radiohead production and the gear used here on gearslutz.

If a band or a producer chooses to use a vintage API and MTA console it's done for an artistic reason and sonic impact. Call me geeky but as an engineer I find that interesting to read about.

[Pandemonium]

Any clues of guitar amps used in In Rainbows?...Great guitar sounds.

[u b k]

so one of the most meticulously recorded bands in existence, with some of the sweetest tones in recorded music, have an aversion to the world of high end gear and would sound virtually identical if recorded on the cheap.

and one of the most carefully constructed, every-element-crafted-to-perfection ensembles is informed by a fµck-it-all punk frame of mind.

radiohead are even more effective at generating and selling an image than i realized.

i love radiohead, and i'm also a big believer in 'what you see is what you get.' i listen to those albums, i listen to those songs, and it's very clear to me what level of craftsmanship has gone into every stage of the affair, including the recording side. i'm also very clear that records like ok computer or kid a would be a shadow of their present form if they were done on m-boxes with rode mics in crappy sounding bedrooms.

anyone here claiming otherwise had better be using m-boxes and rode mics with no desire for anything better, lest you be guilty of not walking the walk.


gregoire
del
ubk
.

[Gladstone]

Originally Posted by u b k

so one of the most meticulously recorded bands in existence, with some of the sweetest tones in recorded music, have an aversion to the world of high end gear and would sound virtually identical if recorded on the cheap.

and one of the most carefully constructed, every-element-crafted-to-perfection ensembles is informed by a fµck-it-all punk frame of mind.

radiohead are even more effective at generating and selling an image than i realized.

i love radiohead, and i'm also a big believer in 'what you see is what you get.' i listen to those albums, i listen to those songs, and it's very clear to me what level of craftsmanship has gone into every stage of the affair, including the recording side. i'm also very clear that records like ok computer or kid a would be a shadow of their present form if they were done on m-boxes with rode mics in crappy sounding bedrooms.

anyone here claiming otherwise had better be using m-boxes and rode mics with no desire for anything better, lest you be guilty of not walking the walk.


gregoire
del
ubk
.

thumbsup

Exactly my thoughts.

[chrisso]

Originally Posted by u b k

anyone here claiming otherwise had better be using m-boxes and rode mics with no desire for anything better, lest you be guilty of not walking the walk.

The band are about SONGS!

Of course, as they don't have to record on the cheap, they will hire the best engineer/producer (Godrich) and seek out interesting and nice gear, but put it another way.........

Do you think if we put you in a stately home in Wiltshire, with an API console, Logic/Pro Tools, Thom Yorke as your guitar tech and Nigel producing, you would come up with an album similar to 'In Rainbows'?
Of course, musicians all over the world buy/hire the same gear and the same producer as the artists they admire and DON'T come up with the same quality of output.
People hire Abbey Road, use the incredible mic collection and historic outboard and console and don't put out Beatles quality albums.
That's because it's about the personnel, the way they play, the way they write and the thousands of subjective decisions they make in the process.
It's NOT about the gear.

In fact if you think it's about a certain vocal chain they use, or whether it's Logic or Pro Tools, or what drums Phil Selway plays, or whether Yorke does all his vocals with an RE20, like a bunch of Gearslutz threads of late.........you are only fooling yourself.

[Gladstone]

Originally Posted by chrisso

The band are about SONGS!

Of course, as they don't have to record on the cheap, they will hire the best engineer/producer (Godrich) and seek out interesting and nice gear, but put it another way.........

Do you think if we put you in a stately home in Wiltshire, with an API console, Logic/Pro Tools, Thom Yorke as your guitar tech and Nigel producing, you would come up with an album similar to 'In Rainbows'?
Of course, musicians all over the world buy/hire the same gear and the same producer as the artists they admire and DON'T come up with the same quality of output.
People hire Abbey Road, use the incredible mic collection and historic outboard and console and don't put out Beatles quality albums.
That's because it's about the personnel, the way they play, the way they write and the thousands of subjective decisions they make in the process.
It's NOT about the gear.

In fact if you think it's about a certain vocal chain they use, or whether it's Logic or Pro Tools, or what drums Phil Selway plays, or whether Yorke does all his vocals with an RE20, like a bunch of Gearslutz threads of late.........you are only fooling yourself.

In defense of u b k, I don't believe he meant Radiohead didn't have anything to do with it, on the contrary. He's just pointing out it's a combination of great (and unique) gear, craftsmanship (the engineer, the producer, the band, everyone), fantastic acoustic rooms, great ideas, talent, passion, devotion, time, perfectionists, work, etc.

[Jack P]

This is gearslutz...

[T Graham Chester]

Originally Posted by CeretoneAudio

here is a picture from the extra disc that came with in rainbows.

you can see

Api console
mac running protools
ns 10 s
8 x 1081 modules
1176s
studer tape machine

not sure on the rest

What's that console on the left? Looks gnarly. And what happened to Nigel Godrich's legs?

[shaggseb]

Originally Posted by T Graham Chester

What's that console on the left? Looks gnarly. And what happened to Nigel Godrich's legs?

Looks like an Electrodyne to me

Don't know for the legs

S.

[tone delux]

The album has a very "open" 3 dimensional sound. It also has a great amount of low end to it. job well done.

does anyone know how they recorded and processed the bass?
What type of Cab or mic/mic pre combo did they use? any compressors that they're know for using?

thanks

great thread.

[CeretoneAudio]

Originally Posted by dylansmale

the pics show a tone of (what looks like) UA M77s. I know the bass player sometimes uses a standup-electric bass, but not sure about this cd.

I'm sure weed was another very influential part of the process

dude you are crazy, you should lay off the bongs.tutt

[CeretoneAudio]

and yes i agree the bass sounds are great. jigsaws falling into place - love that punchy bass sound on that song

[Meriphew]

Originally Posted by dylansmale

I'm sure weed was another very influential part of the process

You mean your posting process?

[ProducerBoy]

This album is beautiful, and I can't believe someone out there is suggesting that these songs would be just as good without the quality gear they used. As a songwriter, I can tell you that without the right tools/mix, a great song will only be heard as a good song by those who aren't given to hearing the potential in the song. (and most people hear exactly what's there, if they even hear everything that is there to begin with...)
Speaking as a songwriter, the production and mix are equally important to the listening experience as having a great song and performance.