How much of your income is from Freelance Engineers?

[Benmrx]

This question is mainly aimed at studios that charge between $300-$500 for just their room. Also, curious if that rate includes a runner.

I'm assuming this means there's:

A Good Console (Trident, Neotek)
PT HD with around 32 I/O (Lynx, Apogee)
8-10 Outboard pre's (API, Chandler, Neve)
Nice Outboard Comps (Elop, Distressors, 1176, SSL Buss Comp)
Maybe some extra outboard EQ (Tubetech, API, Pultec?)
A few decent outboard verbs Delays (Vintage Lex, Plate?, Tile Room?)
Solid Mic Locker (2-3 good vocal mics, royer, coles, usual suspects)

I'm not talking about the crem de la crem of studios here. Just good solid tracking and mixing rooms.

[shaneoconnor]

are you talking the freelance rate between 300-500?

because my studio is $350 for hour engineer (me or my partner) or 200 for freelance. The Milkhouse has none of the gear mentioned (i wish)

I have about 1-3 freelance sessions a month. not really a big deal. i do it to keep relationships open.

[Benmrx]

Originally Posted by shaneoconnor

are you talking the freelance rate between 300-500?

because my studio is $350 for hour engineer (me or my partner) or 200 for freelance. The Milkhouse has none of the gear mentioned (i wish)

I have about 1-3 freelance sessions a month. not really a big deal. i do it to keep relationships open.

Yeah, at my studio, the usual rate is $300/Day which includes myself as engineer, or $200/Day to freelance engineers. Basically, I'm trying to figure out if I dropped more money into the studio, would I get more business from freelancers.

[Benmrx]

[dylansmale]

$300-$500 rooms don't run that high for that lame of a set-up. theres a studio in Utah that runs for $100 a day and has a much nicer set-up than the one you described. For that much I would hope to have mostly boutique stuff and an analogue console, not HD. lol, you got to be joking right? good...

[Sui_City]

dylansmale,

As usual your post adds absolutely nothing to the discussion. I would love to see these so called studios with nicer setups than that surviving on $100 a day. Maybe they selling you crack out the back-door. Because you're certainly smoking something.

You have been a member since June 2007. You have 723 posts.

Why don't you just shut up and listen for a while.

With that i bid you "ignore".

[rcm]

Originally Posted by dylansmale

$300-$500 rooms don't run that high for that lame of a set-up. theres a studio in Utah that runs for $100 a day and has a much nicer set-up than the one you described.

Please post some links to those rooms. There is nothing lame about the set up described. $100/day for rooms like that, I might start taking projects to Utah.

[Benmrx]

Originally Posted by dylansmale

$300-$500 rooms don't run that high for that lame of a set-up. theres a studio in Utah that runs for $100 a day and has a much nicer set-up than the one you described. For that much I would hope to have mostly boutique stuff and an analogue console, not HD. lol, you got to be joking right? good...

First off, my post described a studio with an analog console and HD with at least 32 I/O, as well as Neve and Pultec pieces......I guess I'd consider those items pretty "boutique".

It's hard to read scarcasim sometimes, however, I will say that location is a MAJOR factor. Take a 2 hour drive from here and you can book a studio with an SSL 4056G, absolutely amazing tracking room, vintage mics up the whazoo, killer rack gear, and a 3 bedroom house to stay in for $400-$450/Day.........I could only imagine what the supply/demand is for a studio in Utah.

However, in town (Seattle), that same studio could easily charge $8-$1k.....easy. In fact there's a studio about 30 min. from here that has a fairly similar set-up, except replace the SSL with a Trident A-Range and they charge upwards of $1K/Day, and charge extra for staying in the "studio house".

There's a studio about 10 min. from mine that charges $300/day with PTHD2, 80B, Pultec, 1073's, 480L, Vac-Rac, SSL Quad Comp (actually pulled from a 4K desk), Smart C2....the list goes on.........the tracking room isn't anything to write home about, but definatly gets the job done.

That's why I said $300-$500, because it really depends on location and client base. And again, these rates are for just the room, no engineer included.

[Benmrx]

BTW, here's a rundown on my studio. At the moment I charge $200/day for just the room, no engineer included.........no runner either.

Neotek IIIC 36 channel, 24 Buss Conole

PTLE w/Apogee AD8000 + Lucid 9624 Converters
DP with MOTU 24 I/O

MCI JH24 2" 24 Track Tape Machine

B+W Matrix 805
Mackie HR824
Yamaha NS-10M (needs to be fixed)

Furman HDS-6 + (5) HR-6 Headphone mixers

14 Channels of Quad Eight MM71
2 Channels of Quad Eight MM405 (needs to be racked)
Sytek MPX-4A
Universal Audio 6176
Manley Elop
Langevin DVC
Hamptone JFET + Tube
EL8 Distressors (pair)
DBX 160X (pair)
UREI 7110 (pair)
Chameleon Labs 7720
Lexicon Model 200
Eventide H3000S
Klark Teknik DN780
Bunch of other misc. Rack Items

Coles 4038
Royer SF-12
AT 4033a (pair)
SM81 (pair
AKG 451 (x5)
Oktava MC012 (x5)
SM57's (x4)
SM58's (x2)
D112
421
Beta52
PPA LD2 Tube (pair)
and a ton of other mics I'm too lazy to type at the moment.

Obviously we need PTHD to apeal to freelancers, as well as a few more pieces of outboard, and a nice vocal mic or 2. Basically, I want to record less (only do the projects I really want to), book the studio more with freelance engineers, and then maybe I could start playing music again!

So, I'm sorry if this post was the assumed full sail graduate (even though I am one) "hypothetical" studio.

[Sui_City]

Originally Posted by rcm

Please post some links to those rooms. There is nothing lame about the set up described. $100/day for rooms like that, I might start taking projects to Utah.

Ronan,

You'll have a great selection of wives to choose from.

And you can take more than one!

[Benmrx]

Originally Posted by Sui_City

Ronan,

You'll have a great selection of wives to choose from.

And you can take more than one!

I just heard about that.....about 2 seconds ago. Any one ever see Big Love?

[Sui_City]

Originally Posted by Benmrx

I just heard about that.....about 2 seconds ago. Any one ever see Big Love?

What is that? BBW Porn?

Obviously I assume in Utah that one is supplimenting the $100 a day income with pimping out your wives.

Good business model.

[psycho_monkey]

Originally Posted by Sui_City

Ronan,

You'll have a great selection of wives to choose from.

And you can take more than one!

I was thinking about jokes along those lines...then I thought it would be unfair to have a dig at Utah just because it produces individuals like dylansmale....

dylansmale - assuming you've not blocked me since I've had a go for just about every dumb comment you've made (at a guess about 80-90% of your posts) - seriously, why bother? We all know you're a 21 (if that) kid who's proved time and time again that your mouth is matched only by your ignorance.

Someone hand the kid a big glass of STFU....if you did, you might actually learn something.

[djimbe]

We have a pretty comparable gear list to the OP's. MCI 636, MCI JH-16, Studer
A80 for mix down; API, Langevin, Universal Audio preamps; dbx, Summit, Spectra Sonics, API comps, 2 EMT 140's and other vintage analog and digital 'verbs; Coles, Peluso, RCA, Beyer, Calrec mics; Hammonds, Wurlie, vintage drums...stuff like that. Old PT v.5 system, but it works all day every day. The room/gear rate is $300/day (10 -12 hour block).

About 70% of our business is freelancers. It takes time and patience to incorprate new eningeers in your room. You need to spend time with them to get them comfortable with routing, and also basic trouble shooting during a session so you can help save some money on a runner or AE at someone's expense. I generally provide tech support on the studio's dime for the fist few sessions done by a new freelancer. I want their sessions to go well, and want to teach them through any problems so they can learn to function on their own in my space. Freelancers that don't seem to cut it on the knowledge or skill of running our gear after a few sessions either pay for their continued support needs, or their requests for time don't get super fast service. I'm running a tracking room, not a freakin' school for wanna-bes...

Once you get a small cadre of freelancers warmed up in your room, they take much less support to be effective. About 60% of our business is straight up tracking, with mix frequently done in the "basement studio" kind of realm. People come to us for 2" tape, a console, a good sounding live room, and vintage instruments and gear.

[Benmrx]

Originally Posted by Sui_City

What is that? BBW Porn?

Haha,...no. It was a show on HBO about poligamists.

[Benmrx]

Originally Posted by djimbe

We have a pretty comparable gear list to the OP's. MCI 636, MCI JH-16, Studer
A80 for mix down; API, Langevin, Universal Audio preamps; dbx, Summit, Spectra Sonics, API comps, 2 EMT 140's and other vintage analog and digital 'verbs; Coles, Peluso, RCA, Beyer, Calrec mics; Hammonds, Wurlie, vintage drums...stuff like that. Old PT v.5 system, but it works all day every day. The room/gear rate is $300/day (10 -12 hour block).

About 70% of our business is freelancers. It takes time and patience to incorprate new eningeers in your room. You need to spend time with them to get them comfortable with routing, and also basic trouble shooting during a session so you can help save some money on a runner or AE at someone's expense. I generally provide tech support on the studio's dime for the fist few sessions done by a new freelancer. I want their sessions to go well, and want to teach them through any problems so they can learn to function on their own in my space. Freelancers that don't seem to cut it on the knowledge or skill of running our gear after a few sessions either pay for their continued support needs, or their requests for time don't get super fast service. I'm running a tracking room, not a freakin' school for wanna-bes...

Once you get a small cadre of freelancers warmed up in your room, they take much less support to be effective. About 60% of our business is straight up tracking, with mix frequently done in the "basement studio" kind of realm. People come to us for 2" tape, a console, a good sounding live room, and vintage instruments and gear.

Awsome...pretty much the exact type of reply I'm looking for.

Just out of curiousity, do you run PTHD, and if so, is that a PCI-e or PCI-X system?

Right now there's 2 freelancers that regularly book time here, but I'd like to get that number up. Sounds like we got a similar client base though. People mainly come here for the 2" tape, tracking room, and vintage keys (Rhodes, Wurlitzer, Clavichord, Hammond) But I want to get more people mixing in here.

[Dan]

We've got a similar set up. MCI 536d, JH-24 PTHD w/34 i/o, yada yada. Our rate is close to that range , and we probably see about 40% booked by freelancers. It kind of depends on the guy, as to what they want to do here. Some want to do the entire project, some just basic tracks, and some basic tracks, then come back for the mix.
It's really hard to predict what other engineers value in a room. I think a lot of it boils down to whether they can feel comfortable, and get good work done. I expected the tape machine to do more for us, but it really hasn't been that big of a deal. It's a shame too, because I think it sounds pretty sweet!
What I've seen as the biggest downfall of other studios in regards to freelancers is maintenance. It's a real PITA when you come in, and gear doesn't work. It also seems like many guys are intent on having their own rooms. It's not so much the case for guys that have been doing it a while.

[djimbe]

We don't have a PT HD system.

Personally, I'd like to get a few more mixing sessions too, but in the grand scheme of things it's not that important to me. There are plenty many folks in the Chicago area who have their own mix arrangements, or access to ones they know. Access to a good tracking room with a 2" machine is less easily found (at least in these parts). I know for our group of freelancers, they'd rather get their mixes close in their familiar surroundings, then dial things in on a return trip to the space. That way, they can take advantage of things like our plates without wasting time printing plate tracks during tracking, or run their mixes across our Studer. They do time wasters like extensive editing at home where the price is a fraction of what I'd charge.

I've just kinda resigned myself to the fact that me and my chief engineer will always want to mix in our space, but for others the market is tracking to tape and using quality vintage instruments and outboard they wouldn't otherwise get their hands on. It doesn't seem the Chicago market that we serve can tolerate long mixing sessions at our rate. The positive side is that the less spent overall on mixing (because of edits done elsewhere, etc.), the more a client can spend on actual tracking, and also on the final mix tweaks. Both of those apsects are pretty darn important to get right...

If you want more mix sessions, make sure your control room is up to snuff as far as treatment goes. Ours was crap in this regard for a long time, which made it very hard for freelancers to walk in and be effective. We've addressed that problem almost 2 years ago now, and everyone's efficiency at mixing has dramatically improved.

If you want to contact qualified freelancers, find the "big dog" studio in your area that frequently hosts long lockouts for lable supported work. See if their AE's need a place to take overflow work from self financed type clients. Several of our regulars are AE's at some of the bigger places in town and they bring us overflow when they can't get in their own rooms...

[Benmrx]

Great info everyone, definatly keep it coming.

The acoustics in our control room are decent, but that's definatly one of the issues we need to address. We've put more energy/money into the tracking room as far as acoustics, as my original intent for this studio was to be the "affordable" place in town with a good tracking room and a 2" tape machine. Which has worked out really well. The studio probably would have closed within its first year without the tape machine.

However, now I want to start getting people in here for mixing, which I know won't be as easy. I definatly want to keep selling the studio as more of an analog based room for people that like to use a console + outboard, but also feel that PTHD is pretty much a requirement. Although there are a couple well known studios in town that still use Legacy TDM Mix systems.

[bigos]

Our studio is new and we are primarily looking for freelancers. we dont have a console but we have over 40 preamps 34 channels of ad-da protools hd3 and lots of outboard gear a good patchbay advocet for playback vintage guitars,keys,etc and lots of mics. The studio is also set up for engineers to reprocess their tracks through our outboard gear. Since we are out in the middle of nowhere we charge 3500 euros or approximatly 5250 dollars for 6 days plus one free day with an assistant, room and food in our hotel for 4 people in two double rooms. The price will adjust depending on the amount of people and if they want single rooms etc. I havent had one client yet other than a 4 month "charity" project for a friends band who did their sessions in our construction mess, But Im hoping that our place will be appealing for freelancers to bring their projects.

[vitaminseal]

Great comments, suggestions, and observations. Assuming the outboard and mic locker are as described, how essential is it, in your opinion, for a studio like the OP's to have a full-blown PT HD rig to accomplish this goal? How about the analog console? Gotta have both? With great room(s), great instruments, and great vibe, how does the math come out for you with regard to HD and/or a console?

[Dan]

PT HD is essential for too many sessions for us to ignore. Most clients that don't use it are used to having to convert to it. Since we need it for the clients that need it, the clients that don't care don't factor into the decision. (if that's clear)

The board is more of a personal preference thing, but it definitely goes with using a tape machine.