Recording of Harley Davidson

[cat_hoot]

Hi All,
I need to record a Harley Davidson motorcycle for a stereo intro on a song. I do not want any FX libraries so am doing myself. I have tried 2 U87 in X/Y with not great luck. Any suggestions? Anyone do this live before?
Specs: Harley Davidson on asphalt going approx 1/2 mile. Speed 0-50. Exhaust: loud! and trying to get gear shift nuance when going from Left-to-right or vice-versa.
Any suggestions or comments from anyone who has done something similar is appreciated

[edcampos]

I'm assuming the bike has one exhaust on each side? Try close mic'ing each one of them with an 87! Be sure to wash the mics afterwards with mild soap (really get in there with a scrub). They might not be as good as new afterwards, but at least you'll have a sweet recording of a Harley!

Ed

[TVPostSound]

I have tried 2 U87 in X/Y with not great luck

What specifically is the problem??
I would personally M/S a ride by.
The figure 8 mic in parallel with the bike's path line, and the mid mic perpendicular to the path line.

You can then control the mid volume, as you know it will be the loudest at that point.
I assume both pipes are on the right?? Right to left might be smoother as you wont get the exhaust direct.

[mwagener]

Rent a Neumann KU100 binaural head, it won't get more lifelike than that.

[666666]

I hope you are aware that Harley has trademarked the sound of their bikes. Those engines have a very specific sound and are very recognizable. I don't know the details, but I'm pretty sure you cannot use a recording of one of their bikes / engines without permission and/or licensing... at least legally... and supposedly Harley is really strict about their trademarks... they've been known to sue / harass anyone who has even slightly infringed on their trademark... or so I've heard. Look into it before you spend any more time and effort.

As for recording the bike... depending on the exhaust, the SPLs will be extremely high and hot exhaust gas (vapor, etc) will be blasting out... if you close-mic the pipe outlets, it may hurt or destroy the mics... be careful. But perhaps keeping the mics a bit away from the outlets, off-axis, would be ok. But close-mic-ing still might yield an unnatural nearly distorted type sound. Maybe try ear-level about 10 feet behind the bike and experiment with mic angle until the freq response is nice... because otherwise you may get an overly "trebly" spitty kinda sound which may not translate well on tape. Don't put the mics near the engine itself or you'll get a lot of mechanical noise from the engine which doesn't sound very nice. With more experimenting you'll get it.

[James R.]

Harley Sounds!


Hi Cat_Hoot,




I was doing the same thing several years back and my tech found a bunch of useful cycle sounds on a site called Harley Davidson Sounds.com. Maybe if you've got time you can search the whole site to see if there is somethng you can use.
I also just looked and found a site called Royalty Free Music, Free Sound Effects, Free Music Loops
There is a list of cycle sounds. You might find something useful there.
On the home page, hit the free sound effects link in the menu list on the left side of the page, then the vehicle sounds effects link.
I hope this is helpful.



James R.
Avian Studios
(we're for the birds)

[David Brown]

PotatoPotatoPotatoPotato....

David Brown

[Chris-Doll]

Why don't you just hire this guy?

YouTube - Man imitates Motorcycle sounds

[piano]

Originally Posted by 666666

I hope you are aware that Harley has trademarked the sound of their bikes. Those engines have a very specific sound and are very recognizable. I don't know the details, but I'm pretty sure you cannot use a recording of one of their bikes / engines without permission and/or licensing... at least legally... and supposedly Harley is really strict about their trademarks... they've been known to sue / harass anyone who has even slightly infringed on their trademark... or so I've heard. Look into it before you spend any more time and effort.

Ridiculous and just plain wrong. I hate alarmists (especially when they are wrong) fuuck.

Can George Bush trademark the sound of his farts now too?

Nine of Harley-Davidson's competitors filed comments opposing the application, arguing that cruiser-style motorcycles of various brands use a single-crankpin V-twin engine which produce a similar sound. These objections were followed by litigation. After six years, Harley-Davidson withdrew their trademark application.

Record with freedom.

[big country]

Originally Posted by mwagener

Rent a Neumann KU100 binaural head, it won't get more lifelike than that.

that or a jeckline might cut it

binaural wood be best

[BioMichanical]

I don't know how you plan on getting the mic to stay on the bike for any length unless you have a long cable which could create some dangerous issues, unless you plan on following with a laptop in a vehicle.

But what I would highly recommend is taking the bike to a bike shop that does Dyna Testing so they can strap the bike down and the rear tire sits on some rollers. Talk to the guy and see if they will let you mic the room. Then bring a portable recording device like a USB or firewire 2 channel Mic Pre, a laptop, and mic the room. It gets REALLY loud in there, because they can rev the bike as loud as you want so you will have various micing techniques at your disposal.

[David R.]

Originally Posted by 666666

I hope you are aware that Harley has trademarked the sound of their bikes. Those engines have a very specific sound and are very recognizable. I don't know the details, but I'm pretty sure you cannot use a recording of one of their bikes / engines without permission and/or licensing... at least legally... and supposedly Harley is really strict about their trademarks... they've been known to sue / harass anyone who has even slightly infringed on their trademark... or so I've heard. Look into it before you spend any more time and effort.

If Harley was successful in registering their sound as a trademark, I think it would be to prevent other motorcycles from making similar sounding motorcycles and would have nothing to do with recording.

I recorded my '77 Triumph (Norton pipes). I had it in the driveway, used two PZM mics off axis so they would not be destroyed. We payed attention to the 3:1 rule, moved them around a bit to get the best sound and had a blast doing it.

Blat blat blat blat balt blat blat blat.

I just got the sound of the bike in idle with a few revs, but the recording came out great. To get the bike moving, I would probably try a shotgun or two as far apart as you can get them. If you don't have a shotgun, use your favorite LDC (x2) and space them far apart. Pan the recorded signals hard and there you go.

[big country]

Originally Posted by David R.

If Harley was successful in registering their sound as a trademark, I think it would be to prevent other motorcycles from making similar sounding motorcycles and would have nothing to do with recording.

its the design of the off set crank that makes the Harley sound and run like shit

why would you wanna copy that ?

not sure what the degrees are
but lets say TDC is 360 deg.on compression stroke cylinder #1
on a Harley TDC would be something like 300-280 deg. on cylinder #2
giving it that pop -- pop ----------pop --pop----------pop
normally you go 360 deg. 180
much smother

pop----pop----pop----pop

[Eganmedia]

Try a pair of Lectrsonics wireless mics for close up, try an XY pair of schoeps or similar for pass-bys with doppler. You cant really combine the two due to the doppler shift, but you might be able to add some of the close mic to the actualy moment of pass-by for some extra throat. A long shotgun like a Sennheiser 816 might work well too.

[Sharkus]

Kind of off topic, but when I was a kid, my dad had my sister ride on the back of his Harley with a tape recorder He took off like a friggin drag race. The recording was great, the mic was right at the pipe. I still laugh when I think about the time we were at a convenience store parked beside a bunch of cars with their windows down. We blasted that tape and people thought someone was ripping through the parking lot full speed on a Harley. We laughed our asses off.
Pop said he gave it to a friend with a honda goldwing and he would play it in the tape deck real loud. Too funny.

Good luck on your recording.

/Man I wish I still had that tape.

[David R.]

Originally Posted by Sharkus

Pop said he gave it to a friend with a honda goldwing and he would play it in the tape deck real loud.

[edvdr76]

Originally Posted by cat_hoot

Hi All,
I need to record a Harley Davidson motorcycle for a stereo intro on a song. I do not want any FX libraries so am doing myself. I have tried 2 U87 in X/Y with not great luck. Any suggestions? Anyone do this live before?
Specs: Harley Davidson on asphalt going approx 1/2 mile. Speed 0-50. Exhaust: loud! and trying to get gear shift nuance when going from Left-to-right or vice-versa.
Any suggestions or comments from anyone who has done something similar is appreciated

I did this once with a Ford Mustang Cobra. This thing has a big huge sounding engine!! We needed an intro for the album and we didn't wanna use any sound effects. We were going for an "outside of the club" kinda feel where cars are cruising by bumping loud music. After doing a couple of mono tracks of background cars we did one with the 2 87's and that car was the base of our story. I used a pair of u87's but I placed them about 40 ft. apart........make sure the mics have pop filters cause you'll get LOTS of unwanted air in your tracks if you don't. I ended up using my Vintech 1272 with no compression and went to 2" tape. It worked fantastic!! Remember to set them pretty far apart.......If you put them too close, you won't be able to get that big stereo sound.

[XSergeantD]

Ya try shotgun mics?

Originally Posted by 666666

I hope you are aware that Harley has trademarked the sound of their bikes. Those engines have a very specific sound and are very recognizable. I don't know the details, but I'm pretty sure you cannot use a recording of one of their bikes / engines without permission and/or licensing... at least legally... and supposedly Harley is really strict about their trademarks... they've been known to sue / harass anyone who has even slightly infringed on their trademark... or so I've heard. Look into it before you spend any more time and effort.

There's no TM on their sound. The sound is a result of the design (timing and common crank). I believe they were just upset when either Honda or Yamaha started making a V-twin, but they used an offset crank to increase the HP and decrease the vibration on a V-twin design - that upset HD and I think that's what you're talking about

Originally Posted by big country

its the design of the off set crank that makes the Harley sound and run like shit

why would you wanna copy that ?

not sure what the degrees are
but lets say TDC is 360 deg.on compression stroke cylinder #1
on a Harley TDC would be something like 300-280 deg. on cylinder #2
giving it that pop -- pop ----------pop --pop----------pop
normally you go 360 deg. 180
much smother

pop----pop----pop----pop

The 45° CC design gives a cylinder lag 315° and 405°, but many older hogs fired their cylinders simultaneously which has a sound all by itself (I have a late 50's HD with a magneto ignition system and it makes no difference which cylinder I hook the plug wires to). So not only did you have the 45° designs funky rythm, but the simultaneous firing screwed up a smooth 4-strokes suck, squeeze, bang, blow rythm

Way back it used to be easy to tell where the bike came from: American bikes were 45°, British manufactures used to be single cylinder, German bikes were twin horizontal (180°),...

[edcampos]

Originally Posted by 666666

I hope you are aware that Harley has trademarked the sound of their bikes. Those engines have a very specific sound and are very recognizable. I don't know the details, but I'm pretty sure you cannot use a recording of one of their bikes / engines without permission and/or licensing... at least legally... and supposedly Harley is really strict about their trademarks... they've been known to sue / harass anyone who has even slightly infringed on their trademark... or so I've heard. Look into it before you spend any more time and effort.

As for recording the bike... depending on the exhaust, the SPLs will be extremely high and hot exhaust gas (vapor, etc) will be blasting out... if you close-mic the pipe outlets, it may hurt or destroy the mics... be careful. But perhaps keeping the mics a bit away from the outlets, off-axis, would be ok. But close-mic-ing still might yield an unnatural nearly distorted type sound. Maybe try ear-level about 10 feet behind the bike and experiment with mic angle until the freq response is nice... because otherwise you may get an overly "trebly" spitty kinda sound which may not translate well on tape. Don't put the mics near the engine itself or you'll get a lot of mechanical noise from the engine which doesn't sound very nice. With more experimenting you'll get it.

Unbelievable...

Ed

[big country]

XSergeantD
a question?




Howstuffworks "The Harley Sound and Mystique"

how do you get 405deg out of 360 deg

that sounds like to much crank


http://www.lucasinjection.com/Degree_wheel_100.jpg

315deg
405deg

so it fires on 315deg 45deg

130deg gap on 360deg

qwerty sucks

[glowworm]

try micing the exhaust pipe with a 57 or something that can handle loud noise. I just want to hear what that would sound like.

[riffster]

I made some recordings of my RoadHouse Shorty pipe a few years back and was pretty pleased with it. Not the high end approach but I thought sounded pretty good anyway.

Riffster VTX
mouse over the exhaust hole

[glowworm]

nice

[Nu-tra]

Wow I wouldn't put any mic that close. If you can get two sennhieser 416's or 60's on a stereo bar you should be gold. I would stand about 10-20 feet back with pad possibly engaged.

Good luck

[glowworm]

well don't they normally mic a lot of engine stuff really close as a spot mic when they are doing foley for film? I remember an article on cars that talked about putting mics under the hood of all the types of race cars.

[Kiwiburger]

I'm guessing a close mic recording that follows the bike would be fairly dry and boring. I'm guessing that the ambient sound of the whole environment might be far more interesting, and give the stereo sense of depth and direction.

I would just take my battery solid-state recorder (Roland R1) with it's internal mics and see how that sounded. Otherwise the best stereo pair I had.

[big country]

409 and 421 jeckline ( separating the pipes )facing the ground (PZM style) just under the pipes
shield to cover back of the 409, recorded over asphalt
441 room mic 4 feet back pointed at the carbs
wheels raised with the brakes put on wide open enviroment

if you have ever went from a single exauast to a dual exaust with no Xover
you know what stereo is

[big country]

Originally Posted by riffster

I made some recordings of my RoadHouse Shorty pipe a few years back and was pretty pleased with it. Not the high end approach but I thought sounded pretty good anyway.

Riffster VTX
mouse over the exhaust hole

buitey

[duaneadam]

I haven't done bikes, but have done plenty of cars and my best results were from putting a couple of close mics under the engine out the air flow, with another one (or 2) extended behind the car. I use a short fishing rod and place the mics facing the exhaust but in the dead spot which is usually about 3-4 feet behind the car and a foot or so above the license plate.

[ivankilowatt]

Plain and simple. If you want to close mic the bike (very loud). You need a mic that has low distortion at high volumes, to get the most natural recorded reproduction.
A 57 will begin to produce noticable distortion around 137db. A U87 at 138db w/pad. Niether impress me, guitar amps can reach more than that at 1/2 inch (or so) away from the speaker.
Ribbon mics offer the lowest distortion at high volumes. They tend to not distort until they reach between 145db to 160db+. You must be careful, not all ribbons are rated that high. My RCA 77b, circa 1944, does well to the 145db figure. Many do much better.
A mic I've found that performes well at high spl's is the ATM450 (152db w/pad for 1%THD). They're great mics, good sounding, and for the price, if you do destroy one, they're not a lot of loot.