Beyer M160 Vs Coles, Royer etc

[melonmachine]

hi, I'm thinking of getting a pair of ribbons, particularly for drum overheads, and also for acoustic intruments - double bass, percussion violin etc.

Coles seem to rate most highly in many people's opinions but I'm wondering how they compare with Beyer M160s, also well rated and MUCH cheaper.

And how about Royers?

Any experiences / thoughts?

cheers, Giles

[ocianic]

I just bought a Coles 4038 and its my favorite mic on electric guitars.... haven't tried it on drums OH's yet but I can't wait..

IMO it adds so much character to these types of sources.. I have to add a bit of high end to acoustic guitars but my 1081 handles this well..

I found the Royer 121 more harsh when I put it up against the 4038...

Good luck!

PS... sorry forgot the question in your original post... I haven't compared these w/ the Beyer

[seaneldon]

M160's are great mics. They're not exactly "traditional" ribbons in that they're directional and a bit more lively in the top...but you'll get great sounds from M160s if you've got great sounds moving in the air. They make especially cool drum overheads and play nicely with crunchy guitar amps.

What the Coles 4038 does for dimension and perceived "size" is impossible to ignore. Even at a distance, 4038's can give you the illusion that you have hidden close mics somewhere. My choice for drum overheads when I want the bulk of the drum sound to come from the overheads. Wide spaced pair or Blumlein over the snare drum depending on the image I want. I have an old STC in NY that I'm trying to get "Roswellite'd" by Bob Crowley

The SF-series Royer's are great for putting some velvet over your drums. SF12 is a point-and-forget about it mic for overheads. The R-series takes the cake for close mic applications, though the SF-series is the clear winner for me when you start backing the mic up.

[kats]

The M160's will sound brighter than the Royer or Coles. Not as much bottom end, and more hi mids.

The Coles have a much bigger bottom end, good mid range detail but not as present as the M160's. The Royers (r121) are somewhere in between but somehow don't sound as detailed as the 4038s (in the bottom or mids) or the Beyer (in the mids and hi mids).

[roscoenyc]

Originally Posted by seaneldon

The SF-series Royer's are great for putting some velvet over your drums. SF12 is a point-and-forget about it mic for overheads.

The Stereo SF12 Lives over my drum kit. vary the distance for tighter or more open sound. SF12 is also fantastic for piano, Leslie cab, accordion, group vocals.

I love the sound of single point source.... and single point source ribbon is even better.

[Nu-tra]

IF you have small room/low ceilings then the coles and royer might suck for drum overheads. I think the M160 is better suited for small rooms/low ceilings. I tell ya those apex 205 michael joly mod is the bomb for low dough. If I had a big room I would use the modded apex fro drum all day.

[SighBorg]

Don't forget about the Telefunken RM-5C.

[LaChunkyStudio]

I agree about the low-ceiling room issue. I use M160s for drum overheads for precisely that reason. Their pick-up pattern is good for rejecting reflections.

As drum OHs I really like my M160s. I used to us 414s but didn't like the high-end sizzle. The M160s are way smoother on the top-end.

[themaidsroom]

the coles is deep and magic
the royer is a good mic
imho

be well


- jack

[lambro]

the Beyer M260 is a sleeper too

[Lynn Fuston]

If you want to HEAR the difference instead of reading about it, consider this option. It might answer more of your questions.

Ribbon Roundup CD - 3dB

On CD or you can download the files and listen right away.

Included are Crowley & Tripp Studio Vocalist, Crowley & Tripp Proscenium, Royer R-122, Royer R-121, Coles 4040, Coles 4038, AEA R84, AEA R92, Beyer M160, RCA 77DX, RCA 44 and Nady RSM-2.

[ripper]

i have all the mics you mentioned... my pair of 160's don't really get a look-in these days, 'cept maybe for stereo rooms pointed low and smashed w/ a TG1 or out in the stairwell doing the bonham thing...

great mics, for the price.

but they dont compete w/ my R122's or 4038's as overheads,... my ceiling's not low and i like my room... i could see how if this wasn't the case, the uni-directional m160 could be cool.

hey, i wanna check out the cascade fatheads... $500 for a friggin pair... suppose to be 4038-ish in nature. if it was me, i'd buy 'em.
(and hell no, i aint a sales guy!!!)

or you could pm me and buy my m160's...
oh hell, now i'm acting like a sales guy!!!tutt
at least i didn't hype the m160's before i thought of offering them!

[BLueROom]

All the mics rock, my fav for multi use is the M160.

[melonmachine]

thanks for those interesting comments. I see the close / distant thing with cardio / figure 8. Might depend on the room I can get to record the drums in - it's going to be remote.
As usual I end up thinking "what I really need is to buy EVERYTHING. Then surely my sound would be fantastic."

[recall]

Originally Posted by Nu-tra

IF you have small room/low ceilings then the coles and royer might suck for drum overheads. I think the M160 is better suited for small rooms/low ceilings. I tell ya those apex 205 michael joly mod is the bomb for low dough. If I had a big room I would use the modded apex fro drum all day.

So are you setting these up as a spaced equidistant pair? I'm gonna be working in a similar sized room to you soon and was thinking of using an m160 as the MID mic in an M/S setup along with a yet to be decided bi-di condenser.

I'm looking into hiring mics but I don't really know what to choose.

My ideal is to use the M/S as the body of the drum sound and then augment with spot mics on kik, snr etc.

Was looking to use blumlein array but this may not be suitable for this environment.

I want a failry close tight natural sound, not too washy.

[DQA123]

as long as you treat the low ceilings over your drum kit, a coles or any other figure 8 mic will work just fine.

coles are fantastic mics for just about anything. they take added high end eq amazingly well. unlike any mic iv'e ever used.

[RoundBadge]

They're all good.
Don't forget to try the AEA 84's as wellthumbsup


..

[GMFx]

I wonder what Mr.Wagener has to say about this issue?

[buzzjoe]

Originally Posted by themaidsroom

the coles is deep and magic
the royer is a good mic


- jack

+1 for the Coles 4038 (I have a matched pair and love them - especially in Blumlein) but the Royer SF-12 is great too, imho the streo image is fantastic (even more precise than the Coles pair) and very natural (but maybe not as "deep and magic" :-) Oliver

[Ward Pike]

Originally Posted by melonmachine

SNIP As usual I end up thinking "what I really need is to buy EVERYTHING. Then surely my sound would be fantastic."

Yes.

[rob S]

Love 160's on gtr.
They seem like they can handle higher spl on marshall cab then a royer.
You can put em right up on the grill and they dont buckle.
Sf-12'a and coles are always part of the room mic set up.
Sometimes one cole right over the kit or the snare.
Pultec'd.

They are all great mics.

[Ward Pike]

Originally Posted by rob S

Love 160's on gtr.
You can put em right up on the grill and they dont buckle.

Hypothetically speaking, of course? Because who would wish to capture only the sound of the dustcap over the speaker coil?

[rob S]

Nope