Mid budget mixing desk/DAW

[Froombosch]

Hello,

After leaving the Adat/Cubase/ Motu 2408 route some years ago I make recordings on Nuendo with a spider and some more outboard gear. I only use a (bad) Bahringer mixing desk as a volume control and headphone mix.

Should I go the mixing desk route again with lots of D/A (for example DA-16) and a mixing desk (for example an Audient)? Or is it better to stay in the digital domain and do the mixing inside Nuendo and spend the money on more outboard/high end mikes. Sometimes I like the mixing better even with my low-end behringer mixing desk then a mix inside nuendo.

I know that a reasonable mixing desk attracts clients, because they want to see tsaht big piece wits lots of knobs...

What do you think?


Harrie

[M2E]

Check out the new Mix Mag. They have an article on this same subject.

Hope this helps

M2E

[Revelation]

I find that a digital mixer can do all the routing, used for monitoring, has converters and can control Nuendo as a basic controller. That is my preference. The Yamaha 01V96 is not bad for a project studio, and if you have the money the DM 1000. The other option is to get a Mackie mixer for routing, and a Mackie controller and expander for 16 faders in controling Nuendo. You really can't just stick with a mouse.

[Froombosch]

Originally posted by M2E
Check out the new Mix Mag. They have an article on this same subject.

Hope this helps

M2E

Thanks I'll look what they say.

Harrie

[Froombosch]

Originally posted by Revelation
I find that a digital mixer can do all the routing, used for monitoring, has converters and can control Nuendo as a basic controller. That is my preference. The Yamaha 01V96 is not bad for a project studio, and if you have the money the DM 1000. The other option is to get a Mackie mixer for routing, and a Mackie controller and expander for 16 faders in controling Nuendo. You really can't just stick with a mouse.

When going the mixing desk route I really want to go the better sonics road. Maybe something like the ID2 controller is something for nuendo. But I have the feeling, that the soundquality will improve a lot when I use Nuendo for tracking and general copy and paste work, but use an analog mixing desk when mixing.

When using a Mackie it will be an small improvement to the Behringer. I do not want to goto a neve/api/ssl yet, but want a step up from the behringer/mackie kind of stuff. So I was thinking about an Audient.

Thanks for your thoughts!


Harrie

[DirkB]

I have never tried analog summing, but I sure know that my sound got a lot better after upgrading on the front end (mics and preamps). If you're looking for 3D, extended frequency response, clarity and punch, invest in the frontend. It will be worth it and hold its value.

The second biggest impact on my mixing was getting the workflow right. I used to mix in Nuendo, but now route 26 tracks digitally out to my DM1000. I have my rumour, M3000 and H3000 always patched to aux 1-6 and can start to mix very fluently. I started turning of my flatscreen so I don't look and just listen. Do not underestimate what it does to your brain simply because it needs to process the signals from your eyes .

Furthermore, I do 'automation' everything. No reverb send stays static, virtually every fader is moved up or down a little during a song. I even started automating the master fader this week after reading the AW thread and man, cannot believe how I could have not tried that before...

So, although I'd love to mix on a big SSL or API, being able to mix fluently and without watching a tele, is a big condition for me. Once the frontend is top notch and you tracked some good played instruments, just make sure your actually MIXING, not operating a computer.

Good luck,
Dirk

[Froombosch]

Originally posted by DirkB
I have never tried analog summing, but I sure know that my sound got a lot better after upgrading on the front end (mics and preamps). If you're looking for 3D, extended frequency response, clarity and punch, invest in the frontend. It will be worth it and hold its value.

The second biggest impact on my mixing was getting the workflow right. I used to mix in Nuendo, but now route 26 tracks digitally out to my DM1000. I have my rumour, M3000 and H3000 always patched to aux 1-6 and can start to mix very fluently. I started turning of my flatscreen so I don't look and just listen. Do not underestimate what it does to your brain simply because it needs to process the signals from your eyes .

Furthermore, I do 'automation' everything. No reverb send stays static, virtually every fader is moved up or down a little during a song. I even started automating the master fader this week after reading the AW thread and man, cannot believe how I could have not tried that before...

So, although I'd love to mix on a big SSL or API, being able to mix fluently and without watching a tele, is a big condition for me. Once the frontend is top notch and you tracked some good played instruments, just make sure your actually MIXING, not operating a computer.

Good luck,
Dirk

Got some nice preamps already:
Cranesong spider/ TAB V76

Some nice mikes also
U87/km 84/184 etc

Some meaty effects:
8000, eclipse, 91, good old quadra etc

So my concern is mostly to get my sonics on a higher level when mixing. Workflow is something I have to consider too. Thanks for your input.

Kind regards,


Harrie

[hollywood_steve]

One thing you haven't mentioned that will have a big influence on your decision concerns your need (or lack thereof) for automation. Some of the guys replying to this thread consider automation to be one of the most important features of their mix setup. Other guys (me included) never used automation, even back when I was doing big rock recordings. Good automation (on a console) doesn't come cheap, so this decision will impact the consoles you can afford. For example, with auto, something like the Audient is a popular low to mid 5 figure desk. If you have no need for automation, you could get a used API 24ch board for the same price. (adding good auto to the API would put it into another price range). If "sonics" are your prime consideration, you might consider an older high end console with limited inputs (under 32) and no auto. Those two limitations keep the price reasonable and allow you to get top quality audio at mid level pricing. But if your work requires automation, you will probably be looking at a more modern board that might offer very clean audio. Just something to think about......

Oh, and for another name to consider, you might want to check out Tri-tech Audio (if they are still in business, I haven't heard much from them); they are the closest thing to a true continuation of the real Trident brand.
http://www.tritechaudio.com/

Good luck.

[Zoesch]

Try hunting for a Tactile Tech M4000 board or a Soundtracs PC MIDI/MRX or Megas if you have the space...

As for automation, it depends... the rule is that if you get a good recording from the source it mixes itself.

This means capturing dynamics and nuances during the performance as opposed to faking them during mixing.

Unless you are working with an industrial band... in that case, automate away :D

[thethrillfactor]

Originally posted by Zoesch
Try hunting for a Tactile Tech M4000 board

I have one for sale if any wants it.

Would love to sell it to some one here who could definitely get some good use out of it. thumbsup

[Hiwatt]

If it is purely an issue of sonics you might want to try an analog summing device such as the fulcrom and maybe throw in a controler like the mackie universal control, or that new tascam with the 24 faders. This is the route that I am leaning toward myself. However if you are going to need all the features of a mixer like the eq and aux sends then keep an eye out for the older ones. There are quite afew bargans to be had these days on some very fine consoles...

[Tibbon]

I'd stay digital if I were you, unless you can really afford to get a great board, convertors, and outboard. Otherwise all you are adding is nice distortion.

Right now i've got an Otari Status 18R, and i just use it for Pres/eqs on the front, and mixing the 2" when needed. I wouldn't personally consider mixing on a board unless I was able to get my hands on something really worth it like a Neve/SSL/Eupuhonix/API/etc..

[Froombosch]

Originally posted by hollywood_steve
One thing you haven't mentioned that will have a big influence on your decision concerns your need (or lack thereof) for automation. Some of the guys replying to this thread consider automation to be one of the most important features of their mix setup. Other guys (me included) never used automation, even back when I was doing big rock recordings. Good automation (on a console) doesn't come cheap, so this decision will impact the consoles you can afford. For example, with auto, something like the Audient is a popular low to mid 5 figure desk. If you have no need for automation, you could get a used API 24ch board for the same price. (adding good auto to the API would put it into another price range). If "sonics" are your prime consideration, you might consider an older high end console with limited inputs (under 32) and no auto. Those two limitations keep the price reasonable and allow you to get top quality audio at mid level pricing. But if your work requires automation, you will probably be looking at a more modern board that might offer very clean audio. Just something to think about......

Oh, and for another name to consider, you might want to check out Tri-tech Audio (if they are still in business, I haven't heard much from them); they are the closest thing to a true continuation of the real Trident brand.
http://www.tritechaudio.com/

Good luck.

Thanks. Good thoughts. I use the automation inside nuendo sparingly and do not think i'll need it on an analog board.

When I want to use some automation (not recall) then I could do that inside Nuendo. I remember being in a studio with a Amek media 51 with recall but no real automation. Jumping between mixes was still a pain in the ***. It is probably best to work an a analog summing device, more D/A and let Nuendo do the automation.


Harrie

[Froombosch]

Originally posted by Zoesch
Try hunting for a Tactile Tech M4000 board or a Soundtracs PC MIDI/MRX or Megas if you have the space...

As for automation, it depends... the rule is that if you get a good recording from the source it mixes itself.

This means capturing dynamics and nuances during the performance as opposed to faking them during mixing.

Unless you are working with an industrial band... in that case, automate away :D

Little information available online about that M4000 board. Maybe I should go the api/neve route because that will attract some more clients because of the name of the desk.


Harrie

[Froombosch]

Originally posted by Hiwatt
There are quite afew bargans to be had these days on some very fine consoles...

I have been looking around and was amazed by the low prices of second hand mixing desks. Still when going this route most older desk need (a lot of) maintenance.

Harrie

[Tibbon]

We have an Otari Status 18R, which I think sounds pretty good. Anyone else's opinions on the board?

[wolfhound]

What about an MCI console, or something like the new API modular mixer?

[Froombosch]

Originally posted by Tibbon
We have an Otari Status 18R, which I think sounds pretty good. Anyone else's opinions on the board?

Do not know. Have not heared them. The opinions I read in rec.audio.pro where not very flattering. Some people called it grey sounding....

But I have not heared one, so I can not tell...


Harrie