Gonna be a COOL Saturday (U67)

[lakeshorephatty]

This is staring me in the face here at the office for the afternoon. See attached pics.

I've rented it for saturday to play around with.

Should be a blast. I've never found good post ups of clips of things recorded with a 67, so if anyones interested i can do that after the weekend.

Just wanted to share my excitement.

[Kyle Ashley]

a beautiful specimen....what other mics do you have to compare it to?

[lakeshorephatty]

the only one worthy of any comparison will be my wunder cm7-gt with m7 capsule.

I doubt my at4050 is worth a compare

[analogjeff]

very interested in hearing the comparison between 67 and Wunder CM7-GT with M7! Please post... I know good 67's well, but can't afford one, and I'm considering the Wunder GT w/ M7...

Thanks

[lakeshorephatty]

Ok jeff Will place them coincident for the tests then i guess.

Will make some basic ones. Acoustic guitar, piano, drum kit overhead, 2 voices.

The rest of the time i'll play with the mic to get a feel for it and maybe cut a vocal or two if it makes sense.

Maybe i'll throw them up on a guitar amp too because currently the cm7-gt is the sweetest elec guitar mic for me but i have a feeling the u67 will be even sweeter.

Russell

[ziegenh5]

what brand of tube is in the mic?

[gevermil]

U67 / CM7 -GT / PEARLMAN TM-LE

Thats the shoot Id like to hear

[lakeshorephatty]

Did a lot of the testing tonight.

Resulting sound files and conclusions to come.


Very short response: I'm surprised how similar a lot of the qualities of these two mics are. I expected two different colors.
When trying with preamp selection, i can make them sound similar enough that the differences are very subjective and not important in the mix.

Very strange result, but i've never done a test that didnt' surprise me almost this much.. Just goes to show you.. TRY FOR YOURSELF : )

I'll post some clips tomorrow or sunday.

Russell

[lakeshorephatty]

Have a listen for yourself.

Here is a brief summary of what i've found at this point, and i plan to try some drums tonight.

The mics are different in every area, but less so than i thought. They just seem to react differently to low end and high end, and the mids in the 67 in particular seem superior at all times, but not so much that i mind.

Since i've never heard a real 47 either, i'm now wondering, is the wunder gt m7 closer to a 67 or a 47? Now i have a baseline on the gt vs a 67 i'm wondering if the 47 will be more contrasting to the gt than the 67 is.

I don't really mind either way, i was very pleasantly surprised that the GT holds its own with this great condition 67. If i choose preamps carefully as i did with the later files i can get them to sound more similar. I only have the two types of pre's, germanium and TG style in the TG channel. They both react differently to these mics.

in short, I'm now not thinking "what if" with the GT because its not as expensive as a restored 67. I realize now that these mics, and probably a lot of other classic mics, are in the same ballpark, so i don't have any reservations working with the sound i get out of the GT for vocalists that it seems to suit.

I am looking for a mic that contrasts it more.. Maybe a real 47 or more likely, a U87.. I can try both of those as well when i have time from this same perso, so i will be continuing my search.

I think i will at one point also get another GT from wunder, maybe with the k47.. its such a great mic and its proven again and again to be worth 3x as much as any other mic i own.. it gets used 3x as often : )

Here are the things to know.. For all the direct comparison tests at the beginning i used the chandler germ at a medium feedback setting (3.5) which i find to be quite a neutral but round pre in this area. This went straight to my apogee ad16x to cubase.

Then after all of these first tests which are piano, guitar, vocals male and female (my wife and i, really rough sorry), i have two more of my voice and my wifes where i switched the pre situation to make the mics sound as close as i could. I used the tg on the cm7-gt with a little eq (about 2db on the lows, and on the highs). There is definately still quite a difference but its at the point where its subjective and i know i could get a great sound out of the mic i own which will be close to the mic i am borrowing (the 67) and this makes me quite happy.

I would like a more middy mic in the future, but maybe an 87 is the mic to over exagerate this to the point its quite a contrast to the GT.. i will find this out after trying an 87 at some point.

Also, i placed the capsules coincident and its one performance in each case. They are not in identical positions obviously. this test is not scientific.. Things were always micd from 6-12 inches away minimum so that the mics could be aimed at the same spot approximately on the source with having as little positional difference as possible.

If you have any questions about the test let me know.. i have a few more pics of the mics plus some of the tube in the 67 because i know the question was asked.. I don't know what the tube is but maybe some one can chime in.. I know the owner uses nos parts wherever possible so i would think this is an original style 67 tube whatever that is.

1st up is the files with identical pre settings, made to more or less level match in the daw, not on the pre.. The 67 is quite a bit hotter than the gt, i would guess 4db or so.

Cheers,

Russell

[lakeshorephatty]

these are also with identical pre's and settings..

For these vocals with track i don't have a can's setup right now so there is quite a bit of bleed from the backing track. I hope there isn't much audible phasing in it, if so oh well, we're judging the vocals...

Russell

[ocianic]

fairly even race on piano...

67 was superior on acoustic and vocals for my ears...

Thanks for the comparison

[lakeshorephatty]

I agree the mids and highs become easier to hear on the acoustic and voice and the U67 is showing itself different in a way i think is superior as well..

But then in these last files i changed up the pre on the GT in any ways i could to try to bring some of the qualities i was hearing in the 67 in the gt.. I think i got the gt to be a reasonable amount closer in this case and it proved to me that i could get a sound that was somewhere close just by changing my setup with the gt.

The most important thing to me is the overall quality of the GT is there, it doesnt have the same freq curve all over but if its eq'd it doesn't sound harsh or cheap in any way, it sounds similar to the 67 when pushed in that direction..

However... those beautiful 67 mids.. god!

Gt is in the TG channel in this case and the U67 is in the germ still.

[lakeshorephatty]

here are some pics to give you an idea..

any interesting thoughts on the insides of the 67?

Russell

[lakeshorephatty]

I did a few other tests and now i'm getting more of a feel for the differences between these mics.. In short:

The u67 is a really cool sounding and somewhat different mic from the cm7-gt which is a clone of the U47.

Something great going on in the mids of the U67... Occasionally pick noise or stick noise on drums was less desireable to me, but the highs were a bit fuller and i liked that for some sources.

The 67 has a deeper fuller bottom than the gt for whatever reason.

The mids can be good or bad on different sources. it would be nice to have both.

BUT both mic's give off the same overall quality and depth, something i was not expecting (i was expecting the 67 to blow away the gt in depth and overall character). So i was pleasantly suprised and filled with confidance about what i have and own already.

With that said i'm now thinking about the k47 version of the gt.. that should have a different characteristic and be a bit sharper on the high end which might be a nice compliment to what i have.

Next to try a u87 or maybe a real u47.

Cheers,

Russell

[Ollie]

On Piano, I preferred the CM7

On Acoustic Guitar - I preferred the CM7, but the 67 is very nice as well (Try the 67 on electric guitar)

On voices - this can go either way. They are both real good. It really will depend on the voice.

Value:
Since it is a vintage item, the Neumann 67 will keep its value. The CM7-GT will probably lose a small amount of value, but I am guessing that the CM7-GT is quite a bit less cash.

[Johnkenn]

[QUOTE=lakeshorephatty;1965630]here are some pics to give you an idea..

any interesting thoughts on the insides of the 67?

Russell[/QUOTE

Hey! There's my old mic!!
BTW...if you like the mids in the 67, you should check them out on the CM7...fantastic.

[tone delux]

both great mics. the wunder really suprised me. cool pics of the U67 guts.

[tone delux]

what converter and DAW did you use?

[lakeshorephatty]

i mention it in the first post.. apogee ad16x and cubase 4.

Using the symphony system for my ad and da16x.

[geeek]

What a lovely mic.

I have an M269, which is the same as the 67, with a different valve.

I'll post some pics if you wana see.

Lovely mic.

I haven't heard anything nicer than that mic, coupled with a neve 1084

Mind you, plug it into any decent preamp, and it sounds fit thumbsup

Female vocals are lushhhhhhhhh

[lakeshorephatty]

This weekend coming:

a vintage akg c12 and a U87... Hopefully will have time to post more.

I will try some closer vocal distances this time :P

[meshuggener33]

Hi Russel. I have done a shootout between a vintage 67 and my wunder cm7gt with m7 cap. I found the highs in the u67 to be more "sparkly" with different character of mids and the cm7 to be slightly tighter in the bottom end and a little larger sounding. My wunder is very dark at 78.3 pf. Do you know what pf rating your cm7gt is? it should say on the cardboard box it came with. Higher pf value means brighter upper mids. By the way, the k47 doesnt come close to the m7 in my shootout. Its airier but no where near as large and warm. The k47 cuts through the mix and sits on top of it whereas the m7 just fills the mix out like hot chocolate in a mug :-). Interested to hear the pf value of your cm7gt and how you managed to get it sounding like the u67. I preferred the u67 to my wunder but really only just. Reason being I couldn't quite mimic the tops and mids of the 67 with eq on the gt.. I do agree though that the cm7gt is a quality mic that was not blown away by the 67 as I had expected. My cm7gt did blow away neumann m147 and the blue bottle with b7 cap though. Left them in the dust

[lbruun]

Originally Posted by lakeshorephatty

here are some pics to give you an idea..

any interesting thoughts on the insides of the 67?

Russell

Looks/sounds like an excellent caliber u67.

However I hafta nag you about the pics you posted - they're all out of focus!! tutt

This is the High End forum after all

just kidding of course

[lakeshorephatty]

Hi Mes, To be honest I don't think i got the two mics sounding that close, just somewhat closer. It was just a mismatch of pre's. I had been doing all tests with the germanium, which is warm and nevey in general, definately usually prefer this pre for vocals over anything i've had. I have only used 5 pre's really while i've been into recording. There is my friends avalon's and api's, i used to own a pacifica, and then there's the germanium and TG channel pre's. I am down to the TG and germ pre's now because i found i wanted more of these, and was avoiding using the pacifica whenever i could. So now i have 4 germs and 3 tg channels : )

Anyways, so i just put the wunder through the TG pre instead of the germ, now it had a bit more mid grit. What i was hoping is that i could then dial in some high-mid eq and get really close, however the TG being what it is, the sound changed enough just engaging the eq that i was getting farther from what i was looking for rather than closer. Not to say engaging the eq is a bad thing, its heaven under some circumstances, but colorless it ain't ; )

I wish i knew the pf rating on my capsule. Lost to the wind i guess.. I'm the 2nd owner of this gt and never got any paperwork with it. It says 003 inside the mic, but there is no serial on it. Its definately one of the first gt's made. Johnkenn used to own it, but i doubt he got any information on the pf rating either.. The pf stuff seems to have come up in the last few weeks and its interesting that it hadn't been mentioned previously. The more knowledge you can get the better..

Actually, the person i'm renting the mics from who is 5km from where i work skinned my GT capsule! small world, and i bought the mic from the states : ) Apparently this fellow here in canada and a fellow over in europe are the only two skinning capsules for wunder. This guy skins for telefunken usa as well, and a bunch of vintage mics.. What a find to locate him around here!

About the pictures being out of focus.. damn i tried.. stupid auto focus camera can't focus on a glass tube! I took about 5 pictures to try to get one clear. Some of them were taken on my phone camera at work, so even worse.

My only regret with trying the 67 is i didn't try a vocal REAL close. For me 4 inches is close, but this week i've been trying the wunder at about 2 inches and WOW, that is a really good application for this mic. You can bet i'll try the mics i'm demoing this weekend at that range.

I also might shootout a new u87a against the old u87 i'm getting this weekend.. time will tell.

Russell

[lakeshorephatty]

Well i found it.. its perfect for my wife.

I had a u89, c12, and u87 here this weekend with my wunder mic..

The U87 is ******** awesome on my wife.. It stuns me.

So now i need to find a non a style u87 (older version) and get doug walker (who i've been renting from) to voice it this way for me. I'm sure he can, he is a great capsule maker.

Tell me what you think of this vocal.. no compression, nothing, a little room ambiance added (verb effect) just to make it sit a bit.

Interested to hear your thoughts. I'm surprised it blew away the c12.

The c12 is also a FANTASTIC sounding mic, its just a bit bright for either of our voices. Its not harsh, just bright. Its ridiculously smooth.

Tomorrow on to some instrument tests with the c12 and u87.. i didn't find anything nice about the u89.. incredibly boring sounding mic to me.. worth trying though.. i only rented the c12 and doug threw in the u87 and 89 for free.. good thing he did or i wouldn't have found out what i did about the 87.

Russell

[meshuggener33]

"******** awesome" Love that. My assumptions after reading this thread. U67 rules. Cm7gt rules.