Experiences with AEA R84 on vocals please!

[rank]

What are your experiences with an AEA R84 on male and female vocals? What preamps did you use, how much gain was needed? How did it work on close distance? How would you discribe its charakter (i.e. big, warm, present ...)?

Are there any comparisons with LDCs that have a similar character (i.e. 414 uls, Brauner Panthera, U47/U67 ...)?

[warhead]

You can't find a condensor with similar character in my opinion, it is a ribbon sound through and through. Having said that, I find the R84 to be the greatest ribbon mic overall out there. It has a big sound, a sweetened top end (I am serious, sweet is the only word close to describing it) and isn't an overly dark ribbon compared to many. The mids are ever so slightly set back but very forgiving, and the smooth top doesn't exhibit sibilance issues on vocals. When worked closely it has a big proximity effect, 12" or so back is a more natural response on the low end.

There is a vibe to this mic that other ribbons simply do not possess. Old school meets new school kind of thing really.

One side of the mic will sound slightly brighter and more open, one side will sound more natural / a bit darker by comparison.

I've tried to find a ribbon that offers more overall, and have yet to find it (even in much more expensive mics) except with the AEA R44 which certainly is on yet another plane of sweetness and vibe. But they're over 3x the price!

Sorry for the rant, man I love that mic though (serial # 777!).

Typical vocal gain would be in about the +50dB range for me. I love it with the Great River NV series preamps but it works well with lots of pres. Again, on close distances it has a large proximity effect so choosing the correct distance for a source on a given track inside a given mix will be crucial. It has a very workable range though.

War

[BlueRadio]

+1 for the r84 here.


If you would like to hear one on vocals, visit my website below, and listen to the track "moon."

The chain was:

r84 > API a2d > MOTU828 mk2 via s/pdif


I think they rock pretty hard. Like no other mic I've used.

[rank]

Warhead, your advice is alway most appreciated. I think it was you who talked about the BLUE WOODPECKER in another thread of having the typical ribbon characteristics (smooth mids, deep low end) paired with a condenser like high end.

So, how IYO does the Woodpecker compare to the R84 for vocals in terms of low end vibe, bigness and presence. Thanks for taking care!

[warhead]

It doesn't have the bigness but it has a full bottom, it does have a more forward midrange and the top end is condensor like to a point with great detail. Where the top end changes from condensor land back to ribbon land is around 10k it starts to smooth out again, not really going dark but a smoothness at the very top that is more ribbon like. It takes EQ well of course.

The Woodpecker has a very hot output! I mean, like smokin' hot. The phantom powered amp on board is likely juiced up more than it needs to be, and adds a little bit of noise up top (which I don't find to be a problem on all but the quietest sources). Not likely an issue, but worth a mention.

On vocals the Woodpecker does well also, although it is not necessarily the mojo sounding piece like the R84. It doesn't accent sibilance in most cases, although due to its more present top end it certainly would be more capable of sibilant issues vs the R84. Still I am saying this mic would be less susceptible to that vs many condensors!

I hope this helps!

War

[rank]

Blue Radio, that's a wonderful recording. Everything sounds so close and so pleasant. Very impressing! How did you record guitar and drums? Does this sound come from the recording stage or rather the mixing or mastering?

[rank]

War, did you ever try the uls-version of the akg 414 on vocals and/or compared it with other mics? I'm asking because I came to like this mic especially for vocals. I never liked any 414-model for ac. guitar. And whereas the tl-II-version has an totally overhyped top end which is really awful IMHO the uls is smooth and rather dark. It sounds like no other LDC I've tested so far. It actually reminded me a bit to the beyerdynamic ribbons I once played around with. So, do you or anybody else have any experiences with the 414 uls on vocals in comparison with other LDCs or ribbons (esp. the R84)?

[rank]

Oh no, I was almost decided to get a R84, now I discovered that there's another version called R84 DJV especially for voice work. Here's the discription from the aea-homepage:

Designed for voice work
The AEA R84 DJV is a variation of the award winning R84 ribbon microphone, optimized for closeup voice reproduction. The R84DJV has the gorgeous, flattering tone of the R84, but is more heavily protected from the moisture and wind blasts that can occur during vocal work. The proximity effect of the R84DJV has been adjusted for an articulate sound at close working distances. The R84DJV is perfect for studio broadcast work, voice overs, and "intimate" vocal recordings.

Does anybody have this mic or had a chance to test it maybe next to the regular R84?

[BlueRadio]

Originally Posted by rank

Blue Radio, that's a wonderful recording. Everything sounds so close and so pleasant. Very impressing! How did you record guitar and drums? Does this sound come from the recording stage or rather the mixing or mastering?

Rank,

Sorry for the late response. The sound on that record was the result of many many things coming together...

I actually used the R84 on many sources for that recording. The guitar and drums were vintage (gibson hummingbird and gretsch, circa 1970), well tuned and well kept.

Drums were recorded with root-rod type sticks, except black plastic.

Neumann km184 on overhead, c414 on snare, r84 on kick...

Guitars were miked with km184 and r84.

Bass was a fender squire bass, DI only. Seriously.

Cello synth courtesy of Halion One in Cubase 4

Also the result of a great vocalist and musician.

[tmcconnell]

Its my first pick for Female vocals, Banjo, violin, and a few more - and I often end up adding a little high end centering on 9k q1 to pick up where it drops off. Not my first pick for male vocal. Butter. ..ok sweet butter. I have two issues with it - a) noise (50 db of gain required), and b) proximity effect. Both are managable and worth it. t

[john caldwell]

Recently I tried the R84 on a female talent who had proven too siblant for the typical LDC that I'd hoped to use on her. Almost 55db of gain, via the AEA TRP, was needed for the R84. The result lacked highs, so I tracked with EQ via the Lil Freq, adding both a wide bump at 4k, and a shelf at 9k, along with some de-ess. In honesty, the sound was too noisy to use in the contemplated track, which was a stripped arrangement. The noise may have been more tolerable in a busier track. Other than noisefloor, the sound was pleasant and smooth. Siblance which took your head clean off with the previously attempted signal path (Elux 251>Martech; or M149>Martech) was much improved.

In the end the noise arose from the HF boost I had applied, but I'm not sure how I could have avoided the EQ with her sound. I don't think of the TRP or the Lil Freq as noisy pieces of gear. The experience left me willing to try the R84 on female voice again, but with greater attention to positioning the mic.

Regards,

John-

[yoink]

I got a chance to try the R84 is a vocal mic for a recording a couple weeks ago. The preamp was my trusty DRS-Q4, although we had a couple of racks of APIs available too - we never got around to trying them.

I did have to use some fair amount of EQ to get the sound to where I wanted it so obviously the sound we achieved was a combination of the R84 itself, the mic pre and the gyratory EQ circuit.

Whatever it was, it sounded incredibly, well, uh "sweet"! (warhead)

I don't want to play the game of describing the sound. I will say myself, the vocalist (who would cringe at that moniker) and the who band loved the sound. The vocals sat in the mix just the right way from the tracking stage onward.

I too did not know there was a "DJV" version - but I would be tempted to consider it. While we had a pop filter up, a few plosives and some minor sibilance issues cropped up on a few takes. Like a lot of ribbons it's sensitive to air rushing directly at it.

Now I will add that a well trained singer who can control his/her plosives and displays some muted sibilance would be fine, but for everyone else out there - all the "artistes" - the DJV might just be the trick if the sound isn't changed (very much.)

Enough from me. Try it for yourself. See what you think.

[henryrobinett]

I did most of a whole album with the R84. I did another with a RCA 77 for half and the other half was a AEA44c. Both those mics KILL!! I also did a CD with just the Peluso R-14. All did a great job. All were different female jazz singers. I used Millennia HV-3 for all. The 44c was my favorite.

[Squawk]

Originally Posted by BlueRadio

+1 for the r84 here.


If you would like to hear one on vocals, visit my website below, and listen to the track "moon."

The chain was:

r84 > API a2d > MOTU828 mk2 via s/pdif


I think they rock pretty hard. Like no other mic I've used.

That track is just awesome. Great recording, amazing voice..

[seanmccoy]

I love the R84, and generally run it through a high-gain Grace 101 and an 1176LN. Noise can be an issue, but as has been repeatly stated, it takes EQ very well. I have used it on a couple of male vocals for a "vintage" vibe, but it's my go-to mic for all female singers who tend to get strident when they belt. The way it contains those potentially nasty frequencies is somewhat miraculous to me.

I can also say it was only when using the R84 that, for the first time, I could close my eyes and be convinced the singer was standing right in front of me. In light of its lack of high-mid hype, this realism is somewhat of a testament to how we've grown accustomed to that property of the mics we consider to be good vocal mics.

The R84 is also awesome on guitar amps.

[Duojet57]

AEA R84 through the Gordon mic pre is magic for many applications. Especially vocals.

[yoink]

Originally Posted by Duojet57

AEA R84 through the Gordon mic pre is magic for many applications. Especially vocals.

The Gordon is next on my list!

[u b k]

the 84 is the vocal mic of choice over here, i'm using it right now on a hiphop album i'm producing as well as recording and it KILLS. the 84 loves the distressor too, that comp's particular eq stamp complements this ribbon perfectly.

for those having noise issues, try moving your eq point down to 3k rather than 4k and make it a bit narrower so you grab less hiss. more importantly, you can get away with less of a boost there if you do a wide, shallow cut somewhere around 330. basically, 3db of a 'tilt' is all she needs to sit perfectly no matter what the music around sounds like.

i never feel the need to goose the air, the 3k spike always gives me the presence i need while leaving the top in its pure butter form, and the result is very old school and full of character that ldc's lack. i do prefer higher impedances on the pre when they're available, 1k seems to be ideal.

warhead is dead right, ime 12-18" is the magic zone for vocals. your room has to be good for this mic to work, especially if your source is quiet and/or very dynamic.


gregoire
del
ubk
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[roger]

absolutely right UBK........put the 84 up in a nice room or you will be horrified!

[john caldwell]

I think distance was my problem that led to noise: Too much proximity. The advice to cut low mid and boost @ 3k sounds very good. Thanks for 12 to 18 rule.

John-

[undermind]

I'm curious in hearing what other ribbons the posters above have tried.. It seems like there are just a small handful of ribbons discussed on Gearslutz and people tend to set their sites on certain pieces of gear based on the "popular" choices here. (this doesn't just apply to mics of course) But the R84 is definitely one of those "popular" gearslutz mics.

Sound On Sound magazine did a 2 part shootout of ribbons in the Nov-Dec issues this winter including 14 mics. They used the R84, Royer 121, a couple Crowley & Tripp's, a couple Golden Age's, the Sontronics Sigma, Blue Woodpecker, Coles 4038, GT Velo8 ,Beyer M160, and SE's R1. They tested them on female vox, acoustic guitar, elec guitar, mono drums, and stereo drums. The R84 never did terribly well except for the electric guitar where they placed it 3rd. Although it wasn't great they did like it overall in the big picture. I think the R84 seems to suffer from proximity effect even more so than other ribbons, making it a little bit more challenging. Makes me wonder if the "vocal version" mentioned above might be a better choice.

I too am looking for a good vocal ribbon. I want something versatile, but will be happy if I can do vocals and elec guitar. I've been through a few different ribbons and have found them to be a little dull. What I'd like to find is a non-active ribbon with a lot of high end, as condenser like as I can. The active ribbons definitely have this sound, but just tend to be too noisy for my taste. But then again, I haven't tried the R 122.

The Coles was consistently the highest ranked in the SOS shootout on the variety of sources they tried. I'd like to try the Coles, and hear more about the Crowley and Tripp Naked Eye..

[BlueRadio]

I would take that review you read with an entire shaker of salt...

It took me weeks to really learn how to use this mic properly, and it is easy to see how some guy at a magazine could use it for an hour and say "nah it's not fantastic."

Distance is key, and takes some experimentation from source to source. Very easy to get a muddy sound. After some time, very easy to get an amazingly natural sound.

I have never had to boost the high end on mine. When you use it at the appropriate distance, the most EQ that you could ever need is a very gentle HPF.

[yoink]

Originally Posted by BlueRadio

I would take that review you read with an entire shaker of salt...

It took me weeks to really learn how to use this mic properly, and it is easy to see how some guy at a magazine could use it for an hour and say "nah it's not fantastic."

Distance is key, and takes some experimentation from source to source. Very easy to get a muddy sound. After some time, very easy to get an amazingly natural sound.

I have never had to boost the high end on mine. When you use it at the appropriate distance, the most EQ that you could ever need is a very gentle HPF.

I think that's true for many mics, if not most. I was lucky with R84 I guess, I put it up and it sounded fantastic in a not-so-hot room.

But either way, don't believe this, that or the other. Find out for yourself.

[u b k]

Originally Posted by undermind

I'm curious in hearing what other ribbons the posters above have tried...

my experience is limited to the r84, a real 44 in great shape, the coles 4038, the royer r121, the crowley & tripp vocalist, the beyer m160, and a shinybox 46 (can't remember which trafo option it had).

the 84 is the one in my own locker, because to my ears it exemplifies the natural hugeness of ribbons while being very adaptable to toneshaping via positioning, pre & eq choices. the others all have their strengths, but with the exception of the 44 aren't as flexible in terms of where i can take it sonically. the 84's gargantuan proximity disappears rapidly and is easily manageable, the 44 is just always huge, even at 5' out.

the vocalist is a very cool mic, very controlled low end for a ribbon, not as sweet or open as the 84 but equally smooth in its own way. the coles is just plain dark, but when it works it is magic. the 121 is its own beast, a ribbon and yet not a ribbon, kind of like the sdc of ribbons if that makes any sense: very focused, very clear.


gregoire
del
ubk
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[undermind]

Originally Posted by BlueRadio

I would take that review you read with an entire shaker of salt...

It took me weeks to really learn how to use this mic properly, and it is easy to see how some guy at a magazine could use it for an hour and say "nah it's not fantastic."

Well, to be honest an extensive and detailed unbiased review of several different mics is worth more to me than someone who's figured out how to make his mic sound fantastic. I think that any mic that is less than perfect can with practice be made to sound near perfect. In some cases this requires a lot more work than with other cases. There are far too many opinions here on these "what do you think of this piece of gear" threads where the replier has not even had experience with other similar gear to compare it to.

I, like most others can not afford to try 14 different mics in my studio and then pick my favorite. I can't try them all. That's why reviews like the one mentioned above and UBK's experience with many different ribbons is extremely valuable. Much more valuable than one person saying that he's managed to "make (piece of gear in discussion) work for them.

The idea is to collect as many opinions as you can and and create a balance between them. Of course opinions are subjective, which is why ACTUAL SOUND FILES tell the truth (at least for our own ears). The sound files are what makes the review above very telling. Check it out the audio files for yourself:

Ribbon Mics: Audio Files

WAV files are the second set

[undermind]

And by the way, I hope no one is suggesting that I'm saying anything negative about the R84. I'm simply wanting to hear opinions on everything available. Too often people get tunnel vision based on "popular" gear.

Regarding the ribbon shootout above, I personally liked the Royer the best by a significant margin. It's got the sound I'm looking for. The R84 was good on everything, just not quite as sweet to me. And I imagine backing the source off the mic would fix the boomy low end, but it's not going to add the top end sweetness the Royer's got IMO.

[DanRock101]

thumbsup

Originally Posted by undermind

I'm curious in hearing what other ribbons the posters above have tried.. It seems like there are just a small handful of ribbons discussed on Gearslutz and people tend to set their sites on certain pieces of gear based on the "popular" choices here. (this doesn't just apply to mics of course) But the R84 is definitely one of those "popular" gearslutz mics.

Sound On Sound magazine did a 2 part shootout of ribbons in the Nov-Dec issues this winter including 14 mics. They used the R84, Royer 121, a couple Crowley & Tripp's, a couple Golden Age's, the Sontronics Sigma, Blue Woodpecker, Coles 4038, GT Velo8 ,Beyer M160, and SE's R1. They tested them on female vox, acoustic guitar, elec guitar, mono drums, and stereo drums. The R84 never did terribly well except for the electric guitar where they placed it 3rd. Although it wasn't great they did like it overall in the big picture. I think the R84 seems to suffer from proximity effect even more so than other ribbons, making it a little bit more challenging. Makes me wonder if the "vocal version" mentioned above might be a better choice.

I too am looking for a good vocal ribbon. I want something versatile, but will be happy if I can do vocals and elec guitar. I've been through a few different ribbons and have found them to be a little dull. What I'd like to find is a non-active ribbon with a lot of high end, as condenser like as I can. The active ribbons definitely have this sound, but just tend to be too noisy for my taste. But then again, I haven't tried the R 122.

The Coles was consistently the highest ranked in the SOS shootout on the variety of sources they tried. I'd like to try the Coles, and hear more about the Crowley and Tripp Naked Eye..

[Recman]

I got the r84 because I wanted that old school vibe for jazz and trip hop recordings. I guess more of an effect. I was getting wooly and sludgy results though the GR me1nv and API 512c preamp because the gain needed is rather huge.

I like the mic, but I would probably go for a cleaner sounding preamp because it needs a high amount of gain and the mic is already coloured as it is anyways.

[seanmccoy]

Originally Posted by Recman

I like the mic, but I would probably go for a cleaner sounding preamp because it needs a high amount of gain and the mic is already coloured as it is anyways.

Since I posted on this last year I've added a number of preamps to my collection, and have to say I actually prefer the R84 through the cleaner paths rather than the more colored ones. Pres like my GTQC really show their character when they are pushed to the high input levels necessary to work with the R84, and I think that mojo to some degree "undoes" the beauty of this particular mic. (the Aurora with any of my LDC's, OTOH, is to die for) Hard as it is to say, I think my favorite pre with the R84 has been a Focusrite ISA428.

[u b k]

i should add to my year-old comments that the 84 needs a reeeaaallly good room, because you will hear the brutal truth of your room with that mic. sometimes the brutal truth is beautiful, sometimes it's just plain brutal.


gregory scott - ubk
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