Originally Posted by Scott LaChapell
... I guess I was referring more to this quote:
"Look folks..... When you see 50 million manufacturers coming out with 500 series preamps, you need to understand that a lot of people aren't re-inventing the wheel here. The 312 style circuit is a tried and true design."
[COLOR=black]This sounds like to me you have the opinion that if someone comes out with a new 500 series preamp, more than likely they've barrowed from the 312 design; that the genesis of the critical circuitry between the transformers is rooted in the 312. Perhaps I miss interpret. Designers should be creators, not copiers.
I don't think I've ever even seen a 312 schematic. The 583's roots are directly related to our very original 992EG. My point is that sure, would a marketing guy say "make me a basic preamp that I can dress up and sell"? Perhaps. But the designer would want to make something special, original.
Just to be clear... I wasn't talking about your product in any of my posts. And, I am not generalizing about "if someone comes out with a new 500 series preamp". I am speaking about products that are actually on the market right now
. It seems like you are either threatened by comments, or are upset by them.
Granted, the 500 series format is on fire right now and manufacturers better be prepared to articulate well what makes their preamp special, but this doesn't mean designers are taking the easy-way out by simply looking up a "tried and true design" and shamelessly re-applying it with some token tweaks for the marketers. Unfortunately, I think a lot of gear sellers assume this (especially with the 500 platform) when in fact it is they who may be experiencing a more difficult time trying to move gear for more and more new companies making 500 modules (and I wouldn't want that challenge ). But it would be wrong for a frustrated seller to say "... the vast majority of these 500 series pre's are pretty much designed the same way .... except this one!" Again, another hunch... feel free to hit back if I'm off on that
You couldn't be more wrong..... Even though I am not a gear designer, I have a confident understanding about what I am talking about. Since you've never seen a 312 schematic, you may not be qualified to talk on the subject.
The vast majority of 500 series preamps are 312 style preamps... They are op amp driven circuits... the API 312 was the original op amp driven circuit that the earliest 500 series preamps descended from. So, as the grand daddy, it gets the title. As I've said, 80% of the 500 series preamps on the market today are in this family.
Since you seem to disagree, maybe you would care to elaborate on how specifically all of these op amp driven preamp circuits that make up the majority of products are so different? It seems like you haven't made a valid case for how they are different...
Originally Posted by pan60
i can name off a crap load that are in no way related to the 312, at least no more so them a tube is to any given tube design.
How many would a crap load be? Be my guest... I think you would have a hard time naming off more than 10 that aren't
312 style op amp driven circuits. You only named 3 so far that are on the market (the Mint Julep wouldn't qualify, since it isn't out yet)....
Originally Posted by pan60
that is the most insane comment!!!!
I've built my own API preamps from scratch, and have rebuilt my 1073's switching out different parts to try things... I actually mess around with these circuits. I have API op amps sitting on my desk right in front of me. I've swapped caps, transistors, transformers in 1073 circuits, just to see how they affect the sound....
A tube circuit has a lot more voltage running through it and I have always been under the impression that they are more dangerous for the average DIY'er... Maybe my assumption is wrong? Have you worked a lot with tube circuits? I haven't, so as I said before... I'm not as familiar with them as I am with these things that I actually take apart and mess around with.
Also, I wasn't lumping Neve and API in the same category of audio circuits at all. I was speaking about the designs I am most familiar with... which are API and Neve.