Drawmer 1968 quandary

[jaffa]

I'm looking for a multi purpose compressor, something that I can use as a single channel unit for voice and as a stereo unit across a mix bus, whether that be a complete mix or, say, drums or even keyboards. I had an API 2500 on hire for a week which I really got along with. I even combined it with my old 160x on a bass which was excellent. Basically, I could hear what the API was giving me and I loved it, fantastic transient and low end response too across a complete mix and the thrust switch is mind-bogglingly interesting.

I've read on here about the 1968 and also the company I hired the API from suggested I try it. The idea of it seems a perfect fit with what I want, the valve stage should be ideal for gentle vocal compression and the 'big' switch sounds just right for mixing the kind of thing I usually end up doing here (dance/rock/pop - to try and describe!) Plugging it in though as an insert across my API A2D I just don't get the same vibe I got from the 2500 and I need people to tell me if I'm messing up with either the input or output stage. First of all I can't seem to get the level into the 1968 that I could get with the API and the output stage (the gain switch) seems to distort too quickly before getting the kind of output level the 2500 was giving me. It also seems a very 'clean' compressor (at lower levels) considering the valve stage and is to my ears (dare I say it) characterless and a bit boring.

Ok, it's half the price of the 2500 which is something I have to consider (or I would have the API in my rack now) Is there something I should be thinking about to get a sound out the 1968 that excites me - like the 2500 did?

Steve

[Reptil]

with an 2500 and a fullrange monitor you can take a building out! thumbsup

[kingofswing]

Originally Posted by jaffa

I'm looking for a multi purpose compressor, something that I can use as a single channel unit for voice and as a stereo unit across a mix bus, whether that be a complete mix or, say, drums or even keyboards. I had an API 2500 on hire for a week which I really got along with. I even combined it with my old 160x on a bass which was excellent. Basically, I could hear what the API was giving me and I loved it, fantastic transient and low end response too across a complete mix and the thrust switch is mind-bogglingly interesting.

I've read on here about the 1968 and also the company I hired the API from suggested I try it. The idea of it seems a perfect fit with what I want, the valve stage should be ideal for gentle vocal compression and the 'big' switch sounds just right for mixing the kind of thing I usually end up doing here (dance/rock/pop - to try and describe!) Plugging it in though as an insert across my API A2D I just don't get the same vibe I got from the 2500 and I need people to tell me if I'm messing up with either the input or output stage. First of all I can't seem to get the level into the 1968 that I could get with the API and the output stage (the gain switch) seems to distort too quickly before getting the kind of output level the 2500 was giving me. It also seems a very 'clean' compressor (at lower levels) considering the valve stage and is to my ears (dare I say it) characterless and a bit boring.

Ok, it's half the price of the 2500 which is something I have to consider (or I would have the API in my rack now) Is there something I should be thinking about to get a sound out the 1968 that excites me - like the 2500 did?

Steve

You may want to give a Portico 5043 compressor a go. It's a dual channel comp (like 1968, C2) with seperate controls for each channel. It has a VCA design with two modes of operation - fast, punchy or more smooth and laidback. It does that glue thing on the mix in feedback mode, and works great on drums too (or use feed forward for a faster response). I was able to get some nice punchy hitting drums with little effort. Even with those transformers in and out, it still has a nice transparent sound. Great box.

[baikonour]

the 1968 is indeed quite clean, appart if you really push it. it is really tailord for mix buss duties (the release/attack times are well chosen), some seems to like it for tracking too though (you can run one channel into the other one for more pronounced effect)
I have used a 2500, but for a limited time and i was not that impressed on the mix buss (I don't like/need a feed forward mode though) but that's just my taste. the 1968 has less controls and is probably less polyvalent but for me it does at least one thing really well and that's on the mix buss.

[warhead]

Originally Posted by jaffa

I'm looking for a multi purpose compressor, something that I can use as a single channel unit for voice and as a stereo unit across a mix bus, whether that be a complete mix or, say, drums or even keyboards.

The Safe Sound Audio Dynamics Toolbox is screaming your name.

Look for the TapeOp review (this month's issue?).

War

[vixapphire]

Originally Posted by baikonour

the 1968 is indeed quite clean, appart if you really push it. it is really tailord for mix buss duties (the release/attack times are well chosen), some seems to like it for tracking too though (you can run one channel into the other one for more pronounced effect)
I have used a 2500, but for a limited time and i was not that impressed on the mix buss (I don't like/need a feed forward mode though) but that's just my taste. the 1968 has less controls and is probably less polyvalent but for me it does at least one thing really well and that's on the mix buss.

well said. i've a 1969 (same compressor plus some added crap) and it's exactly as described here. i'd add that it's nice on synths etc. too, though, particularly when driven hard and put away wet.

[Geoff_T]

Hi

Multipurpose? How about an opto, a FET or both? All in one unit?

[Fletcher]

How about an opto and variable mu all built into one?



oooorrrrrr... a diode bridge based compressor and limiter




ooooorrrrr... a "who knows / who cares" based unit?



... because at the end of the day... in the grand scheme of life there are as many options as there are opinions of which all answers boil down to purpose and sense of aesthetic.


[I wish I was cool enough to know how to make thumbnails that can blow up to a more real size... but I'm not that cool].

[BobbyPeru]

Originally Posted by jaffa

First of all I can't seem to get the level into the 1968 that I could get with the API and the output stage (the gain switch) seems to distort too quickly before getting the kind of output level the 2500 was giving me.
Steve

I don't have an API, but I do have the EXACT same problem with the 1968 - I've tried to use it as a mix bus comp with mix peaks(snare transients, etc) hitting -4dbfs and it just can't take it - Meters hit the red and the unit gets muddy and distorted. You seem to have to almost pad the input. Sometimes I can get away with it on the drum bus, especially if I want to mash something.

I thought the SOUND of the unit was ok though. I like what it does to the transients under the different fixed attack times and it seems useful overall, but would be infinitely more so if it could take hotter signals.

Bobby Peru
Milwaukee, WI

[Blenn]

Originally Posted by BobbyPeru

I don't have an API, but I do have the EXACT same problem with the 1968 - I've tried to use it as a mix bus comp with mix peaks(snare transients, etc) hitting -4dbfs and it just can't take it - Meters hit the red and the unit gets muddy and distorted. You seem to have to almost pad the input. Sometimes I can get away with it on the drum bus, especially if I want to mash something.

I thought the SOUND of the unit was ok though. I like what it does to the transients under the different fixed attack times and it seems useful overall, but would be infinitely more so if it could take hotter signals.

Bobby Peru
Milwaukee, WI

I have exactly the same problem - but it does sound good!

Paul

[jaffa]

Originally Posted by BobbyPeru

I don't have an API, but I do have the EXACT same problem with the 1968 - I've tried to use it as a mix bus comp with mix peaks(snare transients, etc) hitting -4dbfs and it just can't take it - Meters hit the red and the unit gets muddy and distorted. You seem to have to almost pad the input. Sometimes I can get away with it on the drum bus, especially if I want to mash something.

I thought the SOUND of the unit was ok though. I like what it does to the transients under the different fixed attack times and it seems useful overall, but would be infinitely more so if it could take hotter signals.

Bobby Peru
Milwaukee, WI

Well I can only say that the 2500 is a very fine machine. Interestingly I also downloaded and tried the waves API plugs at the same time and again they 'sounded' ok, much like the real box but sit back and listen to the bass end, same setting, same output (well as much as you can compare these things) and the hardware box sounds soooo solid on drums. You just feel the bottom end come out at you!

Like you say, there's nothing to dislike about the 1968 but I'm still trying to fall in love with it....I will keep giving it a go until it has to go back

steve

[strewnshank]

I have a 1968 and a Safesound Dynamic Toolbox, and I've been using the Dynamic Toolbox on drums and the 1968 on the mix buss, and I'm really enjoying it. I've tried the Safesound on the mixbuss, and liked it, but I like it better on drums. It is easier for me to dial in a good mixbuss setting on the 1968 than on the Safesound. Drawmer did a good job on the presets.

[Fletcher]

Originally Posted by jaffa

First of all I can't seem to get the level into the 1968 that I could get with the API and the output stage (the gain switch) seems to distort too quickly before getting the kind of output level the 2500 was giving me.

There's this new concept in audio called "gain scaling"... if you set up the input level to your converters [believe it or not, that can be done] so you're working with the input headroom level set to -12dbfs you won't have a problem.

Yes... you have less available dynamic range... but isn't that why you're using a 2 buss compressor in the first place?

The 1968 [at least in my world] is a really nice sounding unit... it does everything I want it to do. When you push the output to hard it will give you shit... the solution? Don't push the output to hard.

The reason for the "red lights" on the output meter was so I could get an idea of when I was crossing 0VU [+4dbu]... not to light them up "red" full time and have your meters look satanic.

My goal for the unit was to add a bit of "glue" while doing a smidge of overall envelop shaping. I generally recommend the unit be used with like 3-5db of gain reduction with an attack of "4" [medium slow] and a release of "1" [fast] or "5" [program dependent "fast"]... with little to no make up gain on the output. If you try to push the make up gain on the output you'll get into the 12ax7's a bit to much and they'll start to "go soft" on you and add a bit of their own "compression" as well as some even order harmonic distortion [as dual triode tubes are want to do].

The API 2500 is really a VERY different beast though it can be used in the same applications. There are times when you can add all kinds of "color" and "attitude" with that unit that is available from damn few other units. The 2500 is a wonderful tool when used properly... though it's not so much a replacement for a 1968 but a compliment to the 1968 [at least that's the way it works in my world... Your Mileage May Vary].

I own both, love both, and have different uses for both... if you can only have one then one of them may very well work better for your applications than the other. It doesn't make the one that doesn't work as well for your applications a bad unit... it just makes it "not right for your applications".

Peace.

[NoEgo]

Originally Posted by BobbyPeru

I don't have an API, but I do have the EXACT same problem with the 1968 - I've tried to use it as a mix bus comp with mix peaks(snare transients, etc) hitting -4dbfs and it just can't take it - Meters hit the red and the unit gets muddy and distorted. You seem to have to almost pad the input. Sometimes I can get away with it on the drum bus, especially if I want to mash something.

I thought the SOUND of the unit was ok though. I like what it does to the transients under the different fixed attack times and it seems useful overall, but would be infinitely more so if it could take hotter signals.

Bobby Peru
Milwaukee, WI

What levels are you guys..(not singling you out) mixing at anyway? Is there any play for the Mastering Lab? Just curious. I love the 1968 . I have only had it for a week now, but I am loving it... I don't get any distortion, but it does have attitude if you want for sure...What levels are you pushing on the mix buss after the 1968? I guess maybe I am missing something.

[camus]

Originally Posted by BobbyPeru

I don't have an API, but I do have the EXACT same problem with the 1968 - I've tried to use it as a mix bus comp with mix peaks(snare transients, etc) hitting -4dbfs and it just can't take it - Meters hit the red and the unit gets muddy and distorted. You seem to have to almost pad the input. Sometimes I can get away with it on the drum bus, especially if I want to mash something.

I thought the SOUND of the unit was ok though. I like what it does to the transients under the different fixed attack times and it seems useful overall, but would be infinitely more so if it could take hotter signals.

Bobby Peru
Milwaukee, WI

You need to mix with proper analog gain-staging in mind if you're going to use analog gear on the backend. With Protools, the 192 is factory calibrated at +4dBU = -18dBFS. Mixing into the 1968 with peaks at -4dBFS means you are going over 0VU on that box by 14dB! That's why it's breaking up.