room mic on heavy guitars

[not_so_new]

where would you place the room mics (the tracking room ca. 42 m² wood floor and relative very "live")?

I wouldn't...

Looking for that wall of sound with room mics might not be the ticket. I am not against tracking them if you have some free tracks but I find I don't use them very much for heavy "in your face" guitars (goes againt the principle of "in your face" doesn't it??). For what it is worth I still love room mics on clean to semi clean guitar tracks, SRV, Jimmy Page etc. style.

Also 4 close mics and two rooms mics on one guitar cab?? YMMV but that is overkill to me.

Give me a 57 and ?? (insert something cool here) and that is all I ever need. May times I can the other ?? mic and just use the 57 with the proper placement and a nice pre. I used to be a fan of condensers on gtr cabs but I think they sound a bit harsh, I tend to stay away from them now.

[djui5]

If your looking for really fat....wall of sound guitars what you need to do is stick a 414 on the best speaker on the cab, put a 57 at a 45 degree angle to the 414...capsules close as possible.


Then your going to need to double or quadrouple the guitar tracks.....and make sure the bass is really tight with the guitars and kick.
When editing cut the guitars so they all hit at the same exact time and make sure the phase is all proper.
I'd also advise that while tracking you do the first run, then double that. Then switch heads or guitars and run another couple of passes with the same guitar line. Pan one head/guitar left and the other right....say pan the 57 to 75, the 414 to 25 then on the other side pan the 57 to -75 and the 414 to -25....adjusting the doubles inside or outside of this.
Add some delay to the tracks also...

[Mike Tholen]

room mics for hvy gtrs is not needed imo.
I usually use 2-3 amps-cabs combined.
I have an all tube splitter to split my gtr signal to the amps...the splitter I have was made by Ollie at TAB-Funkenwerk and is no longer available.
I use a Diezel, Marshall 50 watt JCM800, and a Mesa Rectifier.
I have a Bogner XTASY but I don't use it...anyone wanna buy one?

with a mic or 2 on each cab I can get a damn hvy sound w/out room mics.
for mics I use 421's, Beyer 201's as well as 260's, and Coles 4038's.
pre's are Helios, Telefunken, and sometimes that 'N' word stuff...NO CLONES.
oh yeah 456 at +3 15ips no NR sounds amazingly big. fuuck

[Dan-O]

I certainly agree with staking tracks here. How many is quite up to individual tastes IMO.

I do differ on the micing however. If it were me, my first approch would be to decide on the tones for the track, dial in the amp/guitar rig, take either the M160 or put the 414 in bi-directional and place it around 2-3ft back pointed at the middle of the cab. 1 mic, bi-directional. Maybe favoring a speaker to one side, maybe not. Find the spot and start stacking.

[lowswing]

thanks for the replies!
I really want to stick with one guitar take since i know the players and doubling the track gonna be a mess, therefor i want to get "the wall" just by using few mics on diffrent speaker and taking advantage on the slight phase shift for a big stereo track.

[DirkB]

If you're going for anything comtemporary, 2 dirt guitars panned hard left and right are the bare minimum in my opinion. Add some counterparts, also panned hard left and right and it should be rocking like a MOFO or fire the guitarist .
For stacking guitars, I simply love my sm57 through the Chandler TG-2 close miced on a great amp.

Good luck,
Dirk

[Jules]

Try this -

Put a bass drum mic AKG D112 is perfect into the cary handle hole on the SIDE of the cab - puke it right in there...

Then - suck out two areas of "honk" hi mid 'horn' sound and low mid 'honk' sound - use a LOT of reduction -12 -18 -

Then boost some HF at 16k or a bit lower

When you have it equed right it should sound like - a 2 foot tall guitarist playing in a 2foot wide drain pipe with one of those plastic toy mashal stacks.

Blend this into the close mic's -

can V usefull for a Slash Les Paul solo sound etc...

A sort of ambience mid flavor - but not too distant

Remember - it needs EXTREME eq and to be blended in with the close mic(s) to work...

[Andy Sneap]

57 in close, track it 4 times, jobs a goodun!

[drew]

check out Andy's discography and then decide who to listen to!!!!

[Dan-O]

Originally posted by drew
check out Andy's discography and then decide who to listen to!!!!

Do you reply to this or just let it steep in it's own poo?



Well I guess I did reply really.

[toolstudio]

Hi lowswing,

after a lot of experimenting with multi micing, I always come back to less is more.

I wouldn't try to get a wall of sound with 4 mics plus room mics on a guitar.

My usual starting point is a SM57 through a Neve 1064 or later AEA R84 or a Royer 121 through Chandler TG2. If I rarely add a second mic than it would be a C414 with the IBP to adjust. But as I said I rarely use more than 2 mics, mostly only 1.


wolfgang

toolhouse studios, germany

[enharmonic]

Originally posted by lowswing
I'm producing an album for a band in my studio. one of the songs is really soft but in the last chorus supposed to come a "wall of sound " made by heavy guitars playing the chorus changes.
since the preformance have to be very tight i thought of using 4 close mics (it is a marshal jcm900 with 4x12") and a stereo room mic in xy form one guitar performance to produce that effect.
the close mics will be probably c414(or u87), sm57,beyer m69 and beyer m160 (or rca 77dx) the room mic probably pair of km84.
where would you place the room mics (the tracking room ca. 42 m² wood floor and relative very "live")? any other ideas?
thanks,

WAY too many mic's bro. The object here isn't to record one track of guitar with a half-dozen mics, but to construct a wall of guitar by taking the track at least twice, and preferrably with a few amps.

If you wan't to hear a sick wall of guitar, I can send you a link to a song I tracked that features 2 amps...my Wizard and my Budda...one through a Harry Joyce 4x12, the other through an Orange 4x12 and pushed by a Robert Keeley Rat mod that will make you soil your pants.

and all we used were 2 SM-57's into API and Neve pre's.

[blackcom]

Originally posted by Andy Sneap
57 in close, track it 4 times, jobs a goodun!

I read on your forum you sometimes use TWO 57's.....wazzup with that?

btw, thanks for recomending API....I love it...

[Andy Sneap]

2 if I'm feeling lucky that day

[kosi]

Hi lowswing,
I'm not far from your place, I can borrow you a Little Labs Redeye for reamping and an IBP, if you like.
send me a pm, kosi

[drew]

Originally posted by Dan-O
Do you reply to this or just let it steep in it's own poo?



Well I guess I did reply really.

sorry, just meant it to be a complement to Andy. no offense intended.

[enharmonic]

FWIW bro, I didn't think you were being offensive at all...the brotha has a sweet discography...enough to seriously qualify his opinion on this particular subject. Props to you for pointing that out

[Dan-O]

Originally posted by drew
sorry, just meant it to be a complement to Andy. no offense intended.

No worries.

[Killahurts]

Originally posted by slipperman
I propose:

1.) There is an almost wholly linear relationship running the gamut between Superior-thru-Inferior execution that will impact the 'mix placement possibilities' in the most dramatic fashion. Not just in the guitar players performances.....

In the whole band.

EVERYTHING affects EVERYTHING in some way or another.... sometimes in bizarre, inobvious and often seemingly innocuous ways...

2.) If EVERYTHING is big.....

NOTHING is big.

Pick yer poisons wisely when mixing.

Serve the songs.

Best regards.

SM.

This is so cool. I will be thinking about it for days.

Thank you SM