Final Mix Bus Compressor / Limiter Query

[anguswoodhead]

Well greetings from Oz guys.
I have just spent a day or so skimming over various posts and topics and love the way this whole Gearslutz thing works. Although it can be brutal.

I have been 'in the business' so to speak for around 12 years.
Go to Woodhead Studios if your interested.
I am a budget studio owner providing a service to Indie and budget minded clients.
I have evolved from a 4 track, 8 track, ADAT's, Hard Disk Recorders and in the last 4 or so years PC based DAW.

I started out mixing through a console but when I went to PC I only mixed in the box. I have since come to my senses and am once again mixing (well really bussing) through a console, with a little EQ and compression in Analog land.

I have been using a pair of RNC's across the Master bus as glue and peak-stop but am looking for something a little better.
There seems to be a lot of conjecture as to what the best solution is and indeed if it is wise to even have a Master Bus compressor or limiter at all.

I regularly use 2 local mastering houses (although I do from time to time make it loud and proud for the client who has very little cash) and they have both suggested I push my mix up against something to see how it reacts to compression etc.
And so my reason for posting arises. I am looking to buy a reasonably priced stereo comp/limiter. Probably s/hand off eBay the way my finances are at present.

To me there are 2 issues -
1) The magic gelling or glue factor that a good comp can bring to a mix and then
2) the issue of reaching digital max (or just off it).

Really with 24 bit the need to reach 0db is not so important so the need for an L2 or something similar (brickwall) doesn't seem so critical. And besides in software land there are any number of Limiters that can do the job if required. Really a Mastering issue anyway.

And so we come to my dilemma - what sort of Comp to buy to glue my mixes together. I record and mix all styles of music - Acoustic, Pop, Rock, Soul, Hip Hop, Hard Rock, Punk, Metal etc.
If I had the money I would just buy 2 or 3 different units to use on different genres (Maybe C2, Red 3, 33609 etc.) but I am unfortunately only able to purchase 1 box of 'glory'.

So all you guru's what should I get?

Keep in mind that the whole 'warming' thing could be beneficial to my recordings as I do essentially mix 'in the box' and really just 'Sum' thru my old Yamaha PM1800a.

[gainreduction]

Welcome to GS.

As you wrote, don't use mixbuss compression for level. Do the brickwall thing in digital afterwards if you have to.

A good low-budget solution is to have someone build the Gyraf DIY SSL compressor for you (or do it yourself if you're in the know). The cost of parts is low (not much in there) and it's not very labour intense to build. Shortcut to SSL land for 20% of the price.

The usual supsects (SSL, Smart, Red, 2500 etc...) have been covered many times and I believe you've done that search already.

[Empire Prod]

Man I had a pair of Atomic Squeeze Boxes that I used while working the UMG room, and recently I played some of my old mixes in which I had those things on the 2buss, and I've got to tell you, those freaking things smoke! Those mixes sound amazing!

You can also use those things to get some crazy level!

AAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHH! Why did that studio have to close?

I miss those things!

I hope the guys over at Brooklyn Recording are digging em!

[anguswoodhead]

Thanks guys.
The Gyraf kits seem very interesting - never heard of them before.
And I will check out the Atomic Squeeze Boxes.
Peace.

[gainreduction]

Originally Posted by anguswoodhead

The Gyraf kits seem very interesting - never heard of them before.

They are not kits. It's just a schematic..., you roll your own from scratch.

That and the squeezeboxes are on quite opposite sides of the $$$ spectrum.

[Fabio]

You can mix everything through a Drawmer 68.
It costs less (at least in europe) than many other comps but the quality is great!
Another option is Crane Song but I think that is out of your budget

[theother]

I'd get the original SSL G compressor. New or old, doesn't matter. Some say the early 384 sounds better, but I compared them and couldn't hear much of a difference... there aren't much 384s around anyway.

For the mixbus you hit it so the needle just about moves. Less than 4db. Long attack, short or Auto release, Ratio 2 or 4. Done.

I'm aware there a clones but when I compare them side by side to the original they lack the magic. At least in my opinion.

Because you do lots of different styles I think that's the best choice. Sort of medium budget.

Useful for recording piano, vocals, etc too.

[anguswoodhead]

In case your interested I have decided to get the JLM Audio SMC2 as my stereo bus Comp - it's kinda like an SSL but better Joe reckons.
JLM AUDIO

[NelsonClay]

This is a little off the topic but... What do you think of your Yamaha pm1800a? There is one at a staging company I work that they are liquidating. How do you feel about the pres? I would hope to use it as a front end until I can afford better pres and then to mix through. Do you know what a current price would be for one?

Thanks

[anguswoodhead]

Originally Posted by NelsonClay

This is a little off the topic but... What do you think of your Yamaha pm1800a? There is one at a staging company I work that they are liquidating. How do you feel about the pres? I would hope to use it as a front end until I can afford better pres and then to mix through. Do you know what a current price would be for one?

Thanks

I love my old PM1800A (the 'a' model is the quiet one - the PM 1800 was a bit noisy)
Joe Malone loves the PM 2000 and recommends them as a studio console (worth about $7000 after his mod etc).
The 1800A is not quite as good in the EQ but I love my old girl.
I personally have only used the Mic Pres once or twice and they seemed ok - I use mine for mixing and monitoring only.
I use external pres.
I do use the EQ when mixing and it is okay.
Probably worth up to $2000 in good condition.
I have a spare power supply that came with mine.
The faders are a bit crackly but I don't use them much at all.
The other person that knows a fair bit about them is Murray Kedge from CPC Audio in Ipswich - you could always give him a call.
Hope that helps.
Cheers

[Max The Dog]

FWIW, I love my Alan Smart C1, i think is the piece of gear that has made the most difference in my productions over the last couple years. I wish I could find another piece that would take me up that big of a step.

[DannyMac]

can you try gear from your dealers. If so you must try the Millennia twin Comp

[anguswoodhead]

Thanks for the opinions guys.
I did end up buying a Joe Malone modded Chameleon Labs 7720 which is very SSL / C1 'ish, and am very happy with it.
I use it just like a 384.
Having said that if I was buying again I would consider a pair of 500 series Anamod AM660 Limiters. I reckon they would work very nicely across the Stereo Bus.

[fgp303]

I use Cranesong STC8/M for buss or master with Maselec MPL-2 limiter and for digi celling the TC Brickwall Limiter TDM (part of the TC MD3 bundle) are fine

[Pschelfh]

Drawmer 1968ME compressor into Sony DPS-V77 DAL-1000 limiter (24bit) seems to work fine for me. Especialy the DAL-1000 is magic, it retains dynamics better than any software limiter I tried. Don't know how it compares to more high end hardware stuff though.

Peter.

[seaneldon]

Originally Posted by Empire Prod

I miss those things!

I hope the guys over at Brooklyn Recording are digging em!

Brooklyn Recording has a pair of Squeezeboxes now? A crazy good studio just got a little crazier. Put 'em on the master buss of the Neve, pin the gain reduction meter, make up the gain, and try to hide your erection.

[NelsonClay]

"I love my old PM1800A"

Thanks for the words on that console.

xNelson

[Empire Prod]

Originally Posted by seaneldon

Brooklyn Recording has a pair of Squeezeboxes now?

Yeah we sold them our pair when Universal closed up shop on our room. I STILL miss those things.

[seaneldon]

Originally Posted by Empire Prod

Yeah we sold them our pair when Universal closed up shop on room. I STILL miss those things.

Shit, I'd go book time there right now to reprint some mixes if we didn't have a Dual Squeeze directly next to our mix position, hah!

[DRC]

Originally Posted by anguswoodhead

In case your interested I have decided to get the JLM Audio SMC2 as my stereo bus Comp - it's kinda like an SSL but better Joe reckons.
JLM AUDIO

I looked for the SMC2 in the products section and couldn't find it. Is it pretty much a GSSL? Is it like the Dramastic with I/O transformers? Not a lot of info on it.

[Doc Mixwell]

Originally Posted by DRC

Is it like the Dramastic with I/O transformers?

Gotta say; its hard to beat this box. I've haven't heard a SSL style VCA buss concept that sounds as COOL as the DAO, of course in my opinion. I think its texture folds neatly between the SSL and something like the API 2500, yet its natural in action. It doesn't thin out the top in the audio; it only brings up all that glorious low level detail. It can definitely react like the SSL, but I find it way more forgiving past 4 DB. The HPF in the detector helps let the lower octave stuff BREATH and I think; for my music, that is really important. Its really a unit that I feel has more than the average musical thunder from Left to Right and front to back. The Stereo image is always together and solid with this box, unlike countless others that can seem to shrink and FOLD when you get them working towards heavy lifting. This box is more about the sum of its design than just the awesome sounding IRON.

[rhythminmind]

I have to say I still prefer the Aphex Dominator II 720 on the master bus. The 720 is pretty unslutty around these parts it seems. But it's actually a really well designed box. I was just talking to Ken H about this a few weeks ago. It's one of the few analog multiband limiters i like. You can get them used these days for great prices. I use it to catch any peaks on the way back into my DAW. It really improves your average level on the way back in. I drive just a tad to get the aggressive edge it can have. I will then use the SSL duendes Bus comp if i am still wanting more glue..

[Empire Prod]

Originally Posted by rhythminmind

I have to say I still prefer the Aphex Dominator II 720 on the master bus. The 720 is pretty unslutty around these parts it seems. But it's actually a really well designed box. I was just talking to Ken H about this a few weeks ago. It's one of the few analog multiband limiters i like. You can get them used these days for great prices. I use it to catch any peaks on the way back into my DAW. It really improves your average level on the way back in. I drive just a tad to get the aggressive edge it can have. I will then use the SSL duendes Bus comp if i am still wanting more glue..

Never thought to try that

[anguswoodhead]

wow - this must have nearly my first ever thread on GS.

Looks like I am going to sell the JLM modded CL and try one of the TK audio BC1's.
Anyone liking those?
I am thinking of swapping in some original dbx vca's.

[u b k]

Since you're a self-proclaimed 'budget studio' owner, I'll assume you want to keep the spending as low as possible but still get a high end piece for such a crucial job.

So I'd recommend the Daking 3. Versatility, classy sheen, subtle warmth, trés affordable. thumbsup


Gregory Scott - ubk

[limey222]

I like my TK BC-1, it's quiet and unassuming. I have it permanently strapped across my mix bus and mix into it. I don't really notice it until it's no longer there. I sold my first unit and missed it so much that I picked up another a month later.

Originally Posted by anguswoodhead

wow - this must have nearly my first ever thread on GS.

Looks like I am going to sell the JLM modded CL and try one of the TK audio BC1's.
Anyone liking those?
I am thinking of swapping in some original dbx vca's.

[anguswoodhead]

Originally Posted by u b k

Since you're a self-proclaimed 'budget studio' owner, I'll assume you want to keep the spending as low as possible but still get a high end piece for such a crucial job.

So I'd recommend the Daking 3. Versatility, classy sheen, subtle warmth, trés affordable. thumbsup


Gregory Scott - ubk

Hi Gregory - actually I am a 'budget' studio when it comes to my clientele (and the amount of cash they have to spend) but when it comes to gear I prefer to buy the best I can afford at the time.
eg - I just bought a Retro 176 and love it.
I try to give a world class sound for a small amout of cash.

The Daking does look cool though......