FOCAL TWIN 6 vs KLEIN + HUMMEL O 300 D: NO BS

[DSD_Mastering]

Originally Posted by andrew montreal

It took three seconds. The image opened up. The lows tightened up dramatically. The image depth increased noticably. I shit you not. For those of you who already know this, I appreciate your knowledge. For those who don't believe it. It is to be experienced.Thank you Simon.

Yeah, I'd also have to say the Focal support system is awesome!
Now, just think what a 5.1 system sounds like in a purpose built room using an Equi=tech wall cabinet, JPS Labs In-wall cable, Oyaide receptacles, JPS Labs Analog powercords and interconnects with the Focals sitting on Blue-tak, custom sand/lead filled Sound Anchor stands and decoupled with Linn Skeets!!
Priceless!!

Regards,
Bruce

[fragilo]

So its been almost a year and the Focals are still kicking ass. Ive never mixed as well as I have with theses monitors. They have a certain quality that makes extended listening a pleasure as well, not too grating for mid forward style speaker.

[Bodymusic]

One thing to bear in mind with regards to Dynaudios is that the BM12a, afaict, is the only model in the BM range that uses a new tweeter with neodym magnet. According to a rep, the BM12a are "...of a newer design (based on AIR experience) and have a very new tweeter..." I'm off to listen to a pair this afternoon at my local retailer.

[Xen Ochren]

hmmm its difficult to find Focal's and K & H's in Melbourne..

I've found the focal cms 65's to listen to , but not K & H's as yet.

Im interested in hearing the solo 6's, the twins, and as everyone is loving them so much in this thread, the o300's

can anyone give me a price indication between those in their home town? of course it will be different in australia, but the difference between the units is what I wanna know!

Also, What size room would be good to put each respective speaker in?

cheers all

[garryrobson]

Originally Posted by Xen Ochren

hmmm its difficult to find Focal's and K & H's in Melbourne..

I've found the focal cms 65's to listen to , but not K & H's as yet.

Im interested in hearing the solo 6's, the twins, and as everyone is loving them so much in this thread, the o300's

can anyone give me a price indication between those in their home town? of course it will be different in australia, but the difference between the units is what I wanna know!

Also, What size room would be good to put each respective speaker in?

cheers all

You should contact Lewis Chiodo at Audio Chocolate. A good guy - he'll help you with Focal Twins. You'll be blown away.

[Awavian]

We have just received our shipment of Focal Solo and Twins, so you are welcome to come by and listen..
All the best
Lewis Chiodo

[Xen Ochren]

Great! Audio chocolate is Awave? I was in last week to hear the 65's, looking forward to coming in for the solo and twins! thumbsup

[rob61]

Considering the Klein and Hummel 300 without the digital interface. So, anyone using this that has opinions on whether the available sub is required? I want honest sound, and according to specs the KH should be good to 40Hz without which to me should suffice. Is the extra sub recommended?

I mix such a diversity of stuff, from R&B, hip hop, choirs (with pipe organ and yes they can get below 40 I know, but its only a few times a year and my current stuff can't do better than 40), rock, etc.

All experienced opinions appreciated.

[Reptil]

depends on how loud you play them.
at modest levels IMO they are fine without

[Rokus666]

Originally Posted by Jantex

I also prefer K&H O300 to Focal Twins. It is true that they are smoother in the mids (but not scooped at all), so you have to take a different approach when eq-ing rock'n'roll guitars. But on the other hand I find them cleaner, more detailed and more natural-real sounding with greater low end. I don't own any of them for now, but I was also in the buying process and tested them against ADAM's S3a, Focal Twins, Dynaudio bm6a, bm12a, Digidesign RM2, Genelec 8050 and Genelec 8240.

My order of choices is:
1. Klein&Hummel O300
2. Genelec 8050/8240 (I haven't heard them calibrated, because didn't have GLM software)
3. Adam S3a
4. Focal Twins
5. Dynaudios
6. sorry Digidesign/PMC but to me they sound a little scooped with unreal low end.

Proud owner here man!
I have just put these on my desk and thinking to myself what I was missing throughout the years!
The detail on these is to the core. They reveal every single detail to the very essence of electrons passing through the membrane. In my opinion, I wouldn't recommend them for electronic music and hip hop people. But hey, if you get used to it, you could do anything. I am not replacing these for anything! So revealing.
I had ASP8's and NS10 so you get the idea what difference my ears are getting. It seems that I am still kind of craving for that mid range harshness from NS10's and ASP8's, but my ears are gradually getting used to the neutral qualities of these speaker. I was destroying my ears with those previous speakers I owned...never again!

[deft_bonz]

I do mainly EDM with the K&H... can't be happier
For loudness and the real feel, I've got some serious (a littel crappy) club system here. Shitty sound, but loud as hell

[Martijn W]

Originally Posted by rob61

Considering the Klein and Hummel 300 without the digital interface. So, anyone using this that has opinions on whether the available sub is required?

It depends..

I am in a very small room (+/- 10 square meters) and they move enough air to 'fill the room' before the limiters kick in but to move enough air in a large room you will certainly need the sub.

[alecsribet]

Originally Posted by ISedlacek

My impressions after having Focal Twins here for few days say that:

- the bass area is not too well defined and a bit too much extended (slightly overbassed)

- the clarity and detail of HF is a bit limited (I was surprised by this, since these speakers are often described as slightly "sharp"). When switching from B&W, I always felt like having a buzz in my ears, suddenly could not hear much as if ...

- they are not very truthful to the source (my main disappointment). Of course, it is difficult to clearly define the original source in case of some song, but when I played some of my solo acoustic instruments that I know intimately well and that sound quite natural on my B&W Matrix 801, they always sounded quite "processed" on Twins, far from "natural".

Not very impressed I was (especially after hearing all the rave about them ...)

Last week I shortly listened to BM6A and they sounded more pleasant and natural to me than Twins...

I totally hear you!! TWINS hide lots of problems in the hi-mids and they hide the harshness in sound materials + not very reliable low end.

It is sometimes embarrassing to hear those annoying harsh frequencies poke out on large PA systems and other home systems, while they were sounding very innocent on the focals.

They don't strike a big contrast between great and mediocre mixes, Shitty mixes can sound OK on them.

When I bough those speakers I was amazed but after more than 1 year with them , I realized that they were not brutally honest.

The same story with KH 0300, sounded amazing but after long periods of working with them , I realized that they were hiding stuff from me, like the harshness and hard sounds, but the low end is very precise.

I would advise beginners to buy them, but if you are really serious about your mixing, want to take it to another level, and want to have mixes sounding as pleasing as possible and want your speakers to be brutally honest ... THOSE ARE NOT FOR YOU.

[Martijn W]

And what are in your opinion brutal honest speakers?? atc/barefoot/geithain??

[John Willett]

Originally Posted by Martijn W

And what are in your opinion brutal honest speakers?? atc/barefoot/geithain??

ATC and ME Geithain are certainly very honest - I *think* Barefoot are as well, but I don't really know them well enough.

ATC and Geithain are certainly both in me "top 5" and I use the Geithain as my main monitors.

[alecsribet]

Originally Posted by Martijn W

And what are in your opinion brutal honest speakers?? atc/barefoot/geithain??

The problems that were not "VISIBLE" on the Twins and KH , were revealed by my friend's ATC 150. The problems is , they cost a fortune, are huge and weigh a ton.

I really would like to hear the barefoots as well , people comment on their very brutal characteristics, which is in my opinion a PLUS when you are a mixing engineer that really wants to work hard to make the best mixes.

[h4nc0]

perhaps you want the smaller ATCs such as 25s? I think you want mid-forward speakers, too. And since you mentioned sibilance, perhaps some of the Adams or Unity Audio? I don't think you will like Geithains as they are somewhat closer sounding to K&H.

[alecsribet]

Originally Posted by h4nc0

perhaps you want the smaller ATCs such as 25s? I think you want mid-forward speakers, too. And since you mentioned sibilance, perhaps some of the Adams or Unity Audio? I don't think you will like Geithains as they are somewhat closer sounding to K&H.

To be honest I don't mind how a speaker sounds as long as it does its job of showing me flaws and super details that I need to hear in my mix ... to deliver better music for the pleasure of the people who are listening to it

Have you got any experience with the ATC 25 with regards to sibilances and harsh frequencies ?

I think that Adams tend to sound a little bit hyped in the low, mid low ends , and I don't trust it much.

Have you got an experience with the Unity Audio that you could describe please ?

Thanks a lot for your time

[cinealta]

Originally Posted by fragilo

I've just conducted a shootout in my mix room pitting the K+H against the Focals, I also had some Dynaudio BM6As and some KRK dual 8" actives to toss in.

How does the K&H 0300 compare to the ATC SCM25A? Thanks.

[Martijn W]

K&H 0300D vs ATC 25

[alecsribet]

Originally Posted by fragilo

they are two of the finest nearfields I've ever heard in any price range, and their sounds reside in similar territory.

If that's true , we're living in a sad sad sh***y world.

Originally Posted by fragilo

Klein + Hummel O 300 D:

Very accurate pretty sounding with large horizontal sweet spot, going down to 30-40HZ, but in a very tight non-ported way that is quite accurate on things like LF sines and kick drums. Highs are revealing and sweet, surgical but not boring at all. Mids are nifty, vocals being featured it seems while electric R&R guitars are pulled back somewhat. Snares felt a little wrong, couldn't quite figure out why but just a little lacking in some meat. Overall very amazing open, natural classy sound. Would be great for film and TV mixing and such, and for smaller electronic studios and post suites. Not loud enough to track R&R, almost but the limiters kick in at 85db and they will start taking abuse above 95, though the limiting effect is not bad and the distortion at these volumes is low considering. Mixes seemed to translate well with a focus on voice, they allowed me to carve things to very specific tolerances, which sounded cool in translation compared to more bashed out style mixes where subtly is not achieved as much. Low end and highs translated well. They seem to make you mix in a direction that I've not heard from any other speaker than these. It's a useable and unique sound you get form mixing on these, in an open, airy and HI FI kinda way. Not AC/DC though.

True, very usable speakers , very detailed and precise, a proper mixing tool, EXCEPT, it has a soft hi-mid character which can fool you into thinking that your mixes are not harsh ... this fake smoothness fooled me a couple of times and now I have to test on certain headphones to actually hear those crappy aggressive frequencies that tend to sound ear piercing and harsh at loud volumes on consumer audio and PA systems.

Those are very good speakers, I use them and don't use the Focal Twins anymore(I think i'll transfer the twins to my living room), but you would need a secondary HONEST speaker to reveal the harshness and ear piercing frequency register.

Originally Posted by fragilo

FOCAL TWIN 6:

Now we are on the path to R&R, thwacky chunky funky, open aggressive and vibey meat and potatoes, with solid open easy to listen to highs and nice forward but not pinched or cramped mids. Sweat spot not as big as K+H. Bottom not so low or defined, going down to 45 - 50 with some roll off, a little murky ported sounding but only slightly. Not quite subby low enough to rule out the advantage of 8" drivers rather than 6". They go loud with no noticeable change in sound! Almost loud enough for serious R&R tracking and client hair blowing back. Would certainly suffice in medium to smaller rooms (they also maintain integrity at low low volumes and medium levels. They had an "Oh Yeah!" moment to them when first plugged in - now there's a sound that harkens back to something organic, living, woody, sweet and funky, with a vibe that punches yet soothes and sound like magnetic tape with no tape compression, noise or frequency restrictions.

That's a great review, I experienced the same "not very defined lows" and the "open easy to listen to highs and nice forward but not pinched or cramped mids."

And it's that same SHITTY "easy to listen to high frequencies" that softens the harsh and annoying peaky sibilances, and make you think that everything is all fine when actually ...the mixes you make on them sound harsh and peaky on home and PA systems , specially when those are turned loud.

I was fooled by the TWINS when I bought them and after 2 years of using them i'm really hating them as they have a VERY forgiving nature.


The KnH is better, more detailed and more precise and slightly more revealing than the focals in the hi-frequencies.

But none of them I would call a SLAP ME WHEN SOMETHING IS WRONG type of monitor...they are sweet and forgiving... which is IMO ... not very good for someone who is supposed to make mixes that sound nice on different audio systems even at loud levels.

[Karloff70]

Originally Posted by alecsribet

But none of them I would call a SLAP ME WHEN SOMETHING IS WRONG type of monitor...

I tell you, you want to listen to Unity The Rocks. They'll give your ears an almighty razorblade sheering if your mix is harsh. In fact, you'll be looking for a while amongst modern pop before you find one that sounds really sweet on these. Which could mistakenly make you think the speakers sound harsh at first....until you play a really sweet mix that is. And it will make any speaker you have heard seem loose in the bass in comparison. Tight!! Like a lab operating table for your sounds.

[alecsribet]

Originally Posted by Karloff70

I tell you, you want to listen to Unity The Rocks. They'll give your ears an almighty razorblade sheering if your mix is harsh. In fact, you'll be looking for a while amongst modern pop before you find one that sounds really sweet on these. Which could mistakenly make you think the speakers sound harsh at first....until you play a really sweet mix that is. And it will make any speaker you have heard seem loose in the bass in comparison. Tight!! Like a lab operating table for your sounds.

I have to have a look at those :O the way you're explaining this sounds too mouth watering :D

Sounds like a real tool :O and not a joke like the SWEET sounding speakers

[Karloff70]

Originally Posted by alecsribet

I have to have a look at those :O the way you're explaining this sounds too mouth watering :D

Sounds like a real tool :O and not a joke like the SWEET sounding speakers

Just make sure to get a demo at home for at least two days, as the first day you might not like them much. Then watch as you can't switch back to your old ones without feeling they now sound broken. Also bear in mind they are quite moody about other speakers next to them. It messes up their stereo spread. Not like they are the only speakers that do this, just saying, don't finally judge their sound stage until you have them positioned right with no other speakers right next to or inside them.