another clocking thru SPDIF or word clock question

dashamu · 28th January 2008

Hi clockslutz,

Sorry to beat an almost dead horse but here goes.

I'm sending audio and clock from my Rosetta 200 through SPDIF A/D out into the SPDIF in on my MOTU 2408MKIII. I'm sending D/A audio out of SPDIF and back into the Rosetta and monitoring from there. Easy enough. Pretty noticeable improvement in sound.
On a recent thread it was stated pretty forcefully that sending audio and clock info thru the SPDIF out is a no-no, that audio messes up the clock data etc.., and that it is much preferable to use the word clock connection for clocking and use the SPDIF for audio only.

So, what are the artifacts created by using SPDIF for both audio and clock?
Is this something audible? Will I hear it in real time while tracking or on playback?
What should I listen for?
If I only record 1 or 2 tracks at a time, is this still an issue?
If a connect a BNC word clock cable, will I hear or feel and improvement?
Are there other factors involving word clock that I should be aware of?

A lot of questions, but since I can hear the benefits of better conversion, I'd like to optimize my current connections.

Thanks

dashamu · 2nd February 2008

What, no answers? Too boring, I know. But I'm still curious as to the audible benefits of using word clock instead of SPDIF for clocking.

Thanks

macmod · 5th February 2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by dashamu

Hi clockslutz,

Sorry to beat an almost dead horse but here goes.

I'm sending audio and clock from my Rosetta 200 through SPDIF A/D out into the SPDIF in on my MOTU 2408MKIII. I'm sending D/A audio out of SPDIF and back into the Rosetta and monitoring from there. Easy enough. Pretty noticeable improvement in sound.
On a recent thread it was stated pretty forcefully that sending audio and clock info thru the SPDIF out is a no-no, that audio messes up the clock data etc.., and that it is much preferable to use the word clock connection for clocking and use the SPDIF for audio only.

So, what are the artifacts created by using SPDIF for both audio and clock?
Is this something audible? Will I hear it in real time while tracking or on playback?
What should I listen for?
If I only record 1 or 2 tracks at a time, is this still an issue?
If a connect a BNC word clock cable, will I hear or feel and improvement?
Are there other factors involving word clock that I should be aware of?

A lot of questions, but since I can hear the benefits of better conversion, I'd like to optimize my current connections.

Thanks

SPDIF always carries both audio and clocking information...it's just what it is..

Cheers,
Macmod

kellyd · 5th February 2008

Wordclock is as stable as it gets. Syncing thru coax spdif is better than lite pipe but not as stable as bnc wordclock. If you can sync via bnc workdclock I would. Will you hear the difference not sure. Won't be worse.

TapeOp · 11th February 2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by dashamu

So, what are the artifacts created by using SPDIF for both audio and clock?
Is this something audible? Will I hear it in real time while tracking or on playback?
What should I listen for?
If I only record 1 or 2 tracks at a time, is this still an issue?
If a connect a BNC word clock cable, will I hear or feel and improvement?
Are there other factors involving word clock that I should be aware of?

That's something I've been wondering for a long time too, and I wish I could find the answers to those questions, as I'm just about to get new converters and I'm still not sure what to do.

I have a Digi 002 and soon I'll get a Rosetta 200 or a 2 ch Lavry Blue and use it as Master Clock (as well as converters, of course).
But the 002 doesn't have Word Clock, so I will only be able to sync through SPDIF.

The Digi 003 does have Word Clock, but that's about the only feature I wish I had in my 002. So I'm not shure whether the 003 would be worth the extra money (600+ bucks) 'just' because of that.

Anyone has some experiences to share?
Everybody says Word Clock, but has anyone ever heard any difference between that and SPDIF?

majortom · 11th February 2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by TapeOp

That's something I've been wondering for a long time too, and I wish I could find the answers to those questions, as I'm just about to get new converters and I'm still not sure what to do.

I have a Digi 002 and soon I'll get a Rosetta 200 or a 2 ch Lavry Blue and use it as Master Clock (as well as converters, of course).
But the 002 doesn't have Word Clock, so I will only be able to sync through SPDIF.

Better check to see you that can actually record via SPDIF while clocking via Wordclock before blowing the cash. You can't do it with an MBox 2 Pro. You have to clock via SPDIF to record via SPDIF. Kinda silly. Really dampened my enthusiasm for the MBox. Not saying the 003 can't do it, because I don't know, just make sure you read the fine print first :-)

TapeOp · 12th February 2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by majortom

Better check to see you that can actually record via SPDIF while clocking via Wordclock before blowing the cash. You can't do it with an MBox 2 Pro. You have to clock via SPDIF to record via SPDIF. Kinda silly. Really dampened my enthusiasm for the MBox. Not saying the 003 can't do it, because I don't know, just make sure you read the fine print first :-)

Thanks for that, but that shouldn't be a problem.
I raised that issue in another thread:

What are you clocking your Digi 003R with?

....and according to other members it seems to be fine.

dashamu · 13th February 2008

Still wondering if you can "hear" a difference if you clock thru SPDIF rather than word clock. I understand the theoretical problems in sending audio and clock thru the same cable, but if there is no audible difference, why would it matter?

I'd be more than willing to connect a word clock BNC cable but if it's just a matter of knowing it's better without hearing it, why bother...

Any thoughts?

28th January 2008	#1
dashamu Gear maniac Joined: Dec 2006 Posts: 157 Thread Starter	another clocking thru SPDIF or word clock question Hi clockslutz, Sorry to beat an almost dead horse but here goes. I'm sending audio and clock from my Rosetta 200 through SPDIF A/D out into the SPDIF in on my MOTU 2408MKIII. I'm sending D/A audio out of SPDIF and back into the Rosetta and monitoring from there. Easy enough. Pretty noticeable improvement in sound. On a recent thread it was stated pretty forcefully that sending audio and clock info thru the SPDIF out is a no-no, that audio messes up the clock data etc.., and that it is much preferable to use the word clock connection for clocking and use the SPDIF for audio only. So, what are the artifacts created by using SPDIF for both audio and clock? Is this something audible? Will I hear it in real time while tracking or on playback? What should I listen for? If I only record 1 or 2 tracks at a time, is this still an issue? If a connect a BNC word clock cable, will I hear or feel and improvement? Are there other factors involving word clock that I should be aware of? A lot of questions, but since I can hear the benefits of better conversion, I'd like to optimize my current connections. Thanks

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2nd February 2008	#2
dashamu Gear maniac Joined: Dec 2006 Posts: 157 Thread Starter	What, no answers? Too boring, I know. But I'm still curious as to the audible benefits of using word clock instead of SPDIF for clocking. Thanks

5th February 2008	#4
kellyd Lives for gear Joined: Dec 2003 Location: Austin Posts: 1,243	Wordclock is as stable as it gets. Syncing thru coax spdif is better than lite pipe but not as stable as bnc wordclock. If you can sync via bnc workdclock I would. Will you hear the difference not sure. Won't be worse.

13th February 2008	#8
dashamu Gear maniac Joined: Dec 2006 Posts: 157 Thread Starter	Still wondering if you can "hear" a difference if you clock thru SPDIF rather than word clock. I understand the theoretical problems in sending audio and clock thru the same cable, but if there is no audible difference, why would it matter? I'd be more than willing to connect a word clock BNC cable but if it's just a matter of knowing it's better without hearing it, why bother... Any thoughts?