What's a 64 ch SSL 9000K going to sell for two years from now?

[Clueless]

With stocks cratering, money in the market isn't so safe. With the dollar cratering, money in the bank isn't so safe. Is it time to put money into gear? The question has already been asked rhetorically elsewhere, but here's a concrete pair of questions:

1. What do you think a like-new-in-box 64 channel SSL 9000K is worth today.

2. What do you think that same desk would be worth (assuming you could find one) two years from now?

M

[TonyBelmont]

Originally Posted by Clueless

With stocks cratering, money in the market isn't so safe. With the dollar cratering, money in the bank isn't so safe. Is it time to put money into gear?

Of course.

But, not because of the economy. Buy gear because you need it.

[numrologst]

I've yet to see an SSL console appreciate in value.

Buying an SSL or console is an investment, but not the kind that goes up in value. 90% of gear will depreciate... There are only a few pieces that are constantly appreciating.

[Jim Williams]

SSL is dropping support and there are no spare parts for 6k's and 4k's. 9k's are just around the corner. Rather than stash away spares, they are not supplying them at all. Compare to Soundcraft which has stashed away large amounts of spares for consoles going back to 1979.

So, you have a situation where you will eventually need to buy 2, one to use, one for parts. Due to the large tech learning curve, demand will drop as most won't be able to either fix them or pay for someone who does.

Techy types will buy these up, the rest of you will lose your shirts on the maintanence and power requirements. Going broke ain't so glamourous, is it?

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

[PhilE]

The only console I would buy to use AND hope to go up/ hold value is an old Neve- 80xx maybe if you find a great deal on a 53, Melbourn etc (basically not Vs).
The way markets look set to go both sides of the Atlantic I'd say nothing is a safe bet financially at the moment.

[gainreduction]

Unless you find one of those missing EMI REDD consoles...

[StudioTinPanAll]

i guess you can find one for 100K
there's a new, unused C300 on the bay for 140K

in two years, computers 4x stronger, plugs and convertors better and cheaper,
everybody 384Khz or more ..., 384 channels (bidirectional) over one 5$ cat5 cable
i think big analog desks are gonna get unpopular (unefficient)
so my guess it'll go to half (50K) in no time

just my2c

wim

[theother]

Originally Posted by Jim Williams

SSL is dropping support and there are no spare parts for 6k's and 4k's. 9k's are just around the corner. Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

Not true. I can get any part for my 4000.

It's more difficult to find parts for newer desks like the J series or any AMEK Galileo or 9098i than for 4000/6000/8000 because some were custom made for the desk.

4000 desks use mostly off-the shelf components. So you are not dependent on SSL.

Computer parts are getting rare, but they don't break often. Still plenty out there.

[theother]

Originally Posted by Clueless

With stocks cratering, money in the market isn't so safe. With the dollar cratering, money in the bank isn't so safe. Is it time to put money into gear? The question has already been asked rhetorically elsewhere, but here's a concrete pair of questions:

1. What do you think a like-new-in-box 64 channel SSL 9000K is worth today.

2. What do you think that same desk would be worth (assuming you could find one) two years from now?

M

K-series, as good as they are, use a lot of electricity, produce a lot of heat and are difficult to repair.

The Duality has a very similar sound and features with a smaller footprint, easier maintenance, low electricity consumption, no machine room needed, etc.

All that contributes to the sharp fall in value for the K series. It's almost impossible to sell them right now. I know some 80 channel Ks advertised for £150,000 and they won't move.

I think eventually they are headed for the same fate the Sony 48 tracks met. An expensive doorstop, sold for £500 at an auction.
Even if you could get a K series for free it would cripple you financially if you are not a solid-booked studio getting a decent rate, and let's face it... how many are these days? I think the Duality sealed the K's fate.
I love the functionality of the K. It's so much better than the Duality. You can do pretty much anything you dream off. The Duality is more limited but still offers the sound of the K.

Now the 4000 series is a different animal. It's a very special sound you can't get with the newer SSLs. I can see them coming back in Vogue as long as there will be parts to repair them. (no problem in the near future) The running and repair cost are probably a quarter of a K series.

IMO SSL is selling everything right now on the back of the name they built with the 4000 series. In truth they have nothing in common with the old days except the name. They just make the common guy believe when he buys a 19" rack with SSL printed on it he's set up for the Billboard top 10.
Duende has as much in common with a 4000 desk as a Behringer mixer.
People see a nice 3D shot of an SSL mixing desk on the plugin with the words E/G EQ and they really believe it's the real thing.

The company is no longer the same it was 20 years ago. Let's face it.

It's different people, a different policy, etc.

The 4000 series was a stroke of genius. Nothing after that came even close.

The 9000 series might be the pinnacle of desks, but they are also very difficult beasts and sound outright boring to me next to a 4000.
You need a lot of outboard, like Michael Brauer's Soundtowers, and his talent, to give this desk some mojo.

If you can afford it, it's a nice toy to play with and I for sure would like to have one, but only if I can have MB's racks (and him to mix my records) too!

[theother]

Originally Posted by StudioTinPanAll

i guess you can find one for 100K
there's a new, unused C300 on the bay for 140K


wim

I think you a referring to a 9000J and not a K. Not to confuse with 9K which usually stands for 9000 and means a J in the States.

You can get small J's for around $100k. But they are usually older.
Normal price is around $150k for J's and $300k for K's. 72 or 80 channels.

I had a 9000 J once, and alone getting the desk out and in a room is a major project. The amount of cables alone is insane! No comparison to a 4000. You have an external patchbay with a DL distribution board. The amount of DL cables is ridiculous!
It took me 2 weeks alone to get the 9000 out of the place I bought it from. That was so scary that I decided to sell it right afterwards and go back to my trusted 4000. It seemed like a walk in the park after the 9000 affair.

[jindrich]

I thought like resurrecting this thread now that exactly 2 years have passed.

So the answer is... £115,000, currently on eBay.

Not for a 64ch, but for an 80ch "K", in pristine condition and all bells and whistles.

[Clueless]

Originally Posted by jindrich

I thought like resurrecting this thread now that exactly 2 years have passed.

So the answer is... £115,000, currently on eBay.

Not for a 64ch, but for an 80ch "K", in pristine condition and all bells and whistles.

And from the earlier thread we know that such desks were not moving two years ago at £150,000. So let's say that for £135,000 it would have sold. This means a depreciation of £20,000 over the past two years, or about 15%. That's actually very close to straight-line depreciation of capital goods, meaning that the intrinsic value of the desk has held relatively constant for its asset class.

If we look at the capital markets, the S&P was close to 1400 in June 2008, and now it's 1,063.11, which is a depreciation of 24%. If you were in the market for an SSL console in the past two years, you'd have been better off cashing in stocks in June 2008 and buying gear than holding stocks and buying gear today.

[DONNX]

Nice post Thanks thumbsup

Originally Posted by theother

K-series, as good as they are, use a lot of electricity, produce a lot of heat and are difficult to repair.

The Duality has a very similar sound and features with a smaller footprint, easier maintenance, low electricity consumption, no machine room needed, etc.

All that contributes to the sharp fall in value for the K series. It's almost impossible to sell them right now. I know some 80 channel Ks advertised for £150,000 and they won't move.

I think eventually they are headed for the same fate the Sony 48 tracks met. An expensive doorstop, sold for £500 at an auction.
Even if you could get a K series for free it would cripple you financially if you are not a solid-booked studio getting a decent rate, and let's face it... how many are these days? I think the Duality sealed the K's fate.
I love the functionality of the K. It's so much better than the Duality. You can do pretty much anything you dream off. The Duality is more limited but still offers the sound of the K.

Now the 4000 series is a different animal. It's a very special sound you can't get with the newer SSLs. I can see them coming back in Vogue as long as there will be parts to repair them. (no problem in the near future) The running and repair cost are probably a quarter of a K series.

IMO SSL is selling everything right now on the back of the name they built with the 4000 series. In truth they have nothing in common with the old days except the name. They just make the common guy believe when he buys a 19" rack with SSL printed on it he's set up for the Billboard top 10.
Duende has as much in common with a 4000 desk as a Behringer mixer.
People see a nice 3D shot of an SSL mixing desk on the plugin with the words E/G EQ and they really believe it's the real thing.

The company is no longer the same it was 20 years ago. Let's face it.

It's different people, a different policy, etc.

The 4000 series was a stroke of genius. Nothing after that came even close.

The 9000 series might be the pinnacle of desks, but they are also very difficult beasts and sound outright boring to me next to a 4000.
You need a lot of outboard, like Michael Brauer's Soundtowers, and his talent, to give this desk some mojo.

If you can afford it, it's a nice toy to play with and I for sure would like to have one, but only if I can have MB's racks (and him to mix my records) too!

[drBill]

Originally Posted by Clueless

And from the earlier thread we know that such desks were not moving two years ago at £150,000. So let's say that for £135,000 it would have sold. This means a depreciation of £20,000 over the past two years, or about 15%. That's actually very close to straight-line depreciation of capital goods, meaning that the intrinsic value of the desk has held relatively constant for its asset class.

If we look at the capital markets, the S&P was close to 1400 in June 2008, and now it's 1,063.11, which is a depreciation of 24%. If you were in the market for an SSL console in the past two years, you'd have been better off cashing in stocks in June 2008 and buying gear than holding stocks and buying gear today.

That's all providing the guy with the SSL can sell it TODAY. It's going to be a tough call. There are not that many studios that need a console like that, and most that do already have one. I would not be surprised to hear it sold for $50k.

[Wiggy Neve Slut]

Originally Posted by Clueless

And from the earlier thread we know that such desks were not moving two years ago at £150,000. So let's say that for £135,000 it would have sold. This means a depreciation of £20,000 over the past two years, or about 15%. That's actually very close to straight-line depreciation of capital goods, meaning that the intrinsic value of the desk has held relatively constant for its asset class.

If we look at the capital markets, the S&P was close to 1400 in June 2008, and now it's 1,063.11, which is a depreciation of 24%. If you were in the market for an SSL console in the past two years, you'd have been better off cashing in stocks in June 2008 and buying gear than holding stocks and buying gear today.

But if you traded volatilty over that period you could have bought 50 of them!!!

Wiggy

[work2do]

Originally Posted by Clueless

With stocks cratering, money in the market isn't so safe. With the dollar cratering, money in the bank isn't so safe. Is it time to put money into gear? The question has already been asked rhetorically elsewhere, but here's a concrete pair of questions:

1. What do you think a like-new-in-box 64 channel SSL 9000K is worth today.

2. What do you think that same desk would be worth (assuming you could find one) two years from now?

M

Whatever the price it will be less than what you pay for it. Bad investment if you intend to make money.

[Sigma]

there are only 200 J's and a little over 50 k's in the world

[logicll]

Techy types will buy these up, the rest of you will lose your shirts on the maintanence and power requirements. Going broke ain't so glamourous, is it?

Sad, but true.. We are all being forced to mix in the box.. I love J series! (and K)...I need a time machine..

[Electrode]

I think you are more likely to see prices rise on second hand goods that are desired & yet still in production. Percentage wise, it is probably decent... but not much of an investment.

For example... I live in Australia, and dealt with a seller in the US. He sold 4 Distressors via Ebay all to Australian's because the Aussie dollar is so strong. To us, we are getting them cheap, but with an exchange rate so strong it equates to bumping the prices up in the US ever so slightly.

I don't think it will happen for high end consoles... based on market size and demand... in that sense, the high end console market is crashing.