UK Mastering House Opinions..

[Donny]

Hi Guys..

I need to master an album in the uk........any suggestions on the best bet. Its a pop album....

TIA...

Donny V.

[Jules]

Ray Staff - Alchemy Mastering - Centre Point - London W1.

Good gear and good to work with. Attend the session.

[Donny]

Thx Jules....

[Ol' Betsey]

Hi Donny,

If you got the dough Soundmasters are great too.

http://www.soundmasters.co.uk/latest.htm

They're all really good but I tend to use:

Kevin: Hi-end stuff. pop/rock.

Gordon: More acoustic-based stuff.

Streaky: Noisy, punky stuff.

Good luck,

R.

[Jules]

Supervise the WHOLE session to the end. I caught 2 ME's who shall remain nameless 'somewhere in the UK' popping a Junger limiter or a Lexican limiter on AFTER the artist's, lables & my (producer) approval and didnt really think that was right...

At all...

tutt

I advise you stick to the end and dont let them 'shoo' you out early + get an assurance that they wont mess with the mastering job any further.

[Ol' Betsey]

2 ME's? On the same gig? Man, that must've been some hefty mastering job!

Just joking!

Totally agreed though. You need to have someone you trust or be there in person (I'm usually ALWAYS there...).

But were all of you in the room together, OK'ing the master and then they thought they'd just 'sweeten' it up a little without telling anyone?

Or did they actually get you to OK the masters and then mess with them while they were making the parts?

That's seriously uncool. And I guess I've never really thought about stuff like that happening...

Did it happen TWICE at the same place?

R.

[Lindell]

Heathmans Mastering did a great job on one of my mixes....
http://www.heathmans.co.uk/key_peopl...nis_smith2.htm

/Lindell

[Jules]

"But were all of you in the room together, OK'ing the master and then they thought they'd just 'sweeten' it up a little without telling anyone?"

YES

Or did they actually get you to OK the masters and then mess with them while they were making the parts?

ALL TWEAKES WERE APPROVED - THEN AS THEY RAN IT OFF ON THE THE 1630 TO SEND TO THE FACTORY THEY SNEAKLY PLUGGED IN THE LIMITERS WITH OUT ANY MENTION OR ASKING PERMISION

That's seriously uncool. And I guess I've never really thought about stuff like that happening...

DOES IN THE UK

Did it happen TWICE at the same place?

AT TWO SEPERATE WELL KNOWN FACILITIES

JUST KEEP AN EYE OUT - FOR-WARNED IS FOR-ARMED

[mgod]

Who's the guy who used to be at the Exchange? The Exchange is probably still good but I know the main guy left and took a bunch of the gear and set up his own shop somewhere in southwest England. Anyway, I was always impressed with his work. Wish I could remember his name.

DS

[PapillonIrl]

Anyone had any experience with The Sanctuary ?
We are considering them for an upcoming EP.


Cheers,

Nathan

[Ol' Betsey]

I used a guy at The Exchange once...

He sat there looking at a RT ANALyser the whole time going "Hmm, need a bit a this and don't need a bit a that".

Sounded like pooh (coulda just been me though..).

And then he went on and done some pretty hefty stuff.

Go figure.

can't remember his name though.

Was that any help?

Sorry, England just dropped outta the European Cup and I'm a bit pissed...

R.

[jazzius II]

Reminds me of a customer I had once.......he told me he had a friend who'd invented a new mastering technique......you didn't need to listen to the music!...only look at the meters!.......you could see when it was right!.......(he only came to me 'cause the record company insisted)........that was a good one.......

[Ol' Betsey]

Originally posted by PapillonIrl
Anyone had any experience with The Sanctuary ?
We are considering them for an upcoming EP.


Cheers,

Nathan

Hi Nathan,

Haven't heard much about Sanctuary "Mastering" but I reckon they're becoming a bit like the Clear Channel of studios/label/publishing here in the UK.

They've probably got some good guys over there (Wherever they're at NOW. Weren't they thinking about buying Townhouse off EMI or somebody or other?) but unless you hear some stuff they've done (and like it) I would probably try and get a few other recommendations if possible.

R.

[entropy]

the exchange used to be THE place for dancefloor 12" cuts but they went off the boil so I starting frequenting Alchemy and had some great cuts from them.

CTS and Abbey were good for getting pop/MOR albums done, nothing amazing but you knew you could trust them not to **** it up if you couldn't attend.

Chop 'em out.... can't remember the guys name but he was american or canadian and he was excellent. Highly recommended by me. I've heard others moan about him but everything I did there came back superb and I've the stuff I've done, still holds up better than anybody else.

Metropolis....eerrrr, didn't they poach everybody that was any good 'round the uk. Still, I've never used them and don't know anyone that has.

Where-ever you go, as Jules said.... attend to completion until you've done a few cuts with the guy and can trust him to do justice to your master piece

[PapillonIrl]

Attending is not an option for us.

Currently the uneasy democracy that is our band have the heated debate down to four options.

Abbey Rd(Uk obviously).
Sanctuary (Uk)
Brad Blackwood (Euphonic Masters)
Bob Olhsson

Any advice to end this petty squabble would be appreciated.

One of the tunes is available on the Mp3 upload section of this site if that helps.

Nathan

[StuartMac]

Nathan - check your pms

[karl]

My problem with mastering is that people seem to expect too much from it. You have more of a chance to improve the album by spending a day or two more on the mix. I would be looking for a relatively neutral mastering engineer to enhance what I already have. After doing quite a few albums at both the Townhouse and Abbey Road I find they are really expensive (on average between £1,500 and £2,000). Whilst some labels are willing to pay and some artists just love a tour of Abbey Road, a friend with a finaliser and an 1178 does not fall far short in terms of results. The only thing is that Abbey Road have some good width enhancer thing going on - not sure what it is? At the moment I send most of my stuff to Sound Factory in Holland. When you find a mastering engineer you trust, just stick with them.

[isa215]

Originally posted by mgod
Who's the guy who used to be at the Exchange? The Exchange is probably still good but I know the main guy left and took a bunch of the gear and set up his own shop somewhere in southwest England. Anyway, I was always impressed with his work. Wish I could remember his name.

DS

Do you mean Jon Dent (of Loud Mastering)?
I've been to sessions once or twice @ Loud Mastering - quite impressed. He still operates his VMS-70 I believe. Mastering chain was predominantly based on apogee conversion & manley outboard (he may well have changed since then).

Nice guy. Simple set-up. Great results.

Cheers

[mgod]

That's the guy.

It wasn't Manley outboard, it was EAR which the Exchange was heavily based around. A deParavacini modified Neumann and mostly EAR, which may be one reason why LPs cut there sounded so amazing on my stereo. Must be something sympathetic or synergistic when you use the same circuit ideas to both encode and decode a record. The Chesky "Power of the Orchestra" is frighteningly powerful here. Cut by John and Tim at the Exchange.

DS

[Thermionic]

I had an unattended cut from John Dent a couple of years ago, he is definitely recommended in my book. From what I can tell he didn't apply any compression, or eq that I can hear. I'd describe the result as a faithful transcription of the master I sent.

The Exchange has never let me down and I'm a creature of habit so I recommend them, but I wouldn't have a problem if I had to use John instead, he's definitely top-notch without doubt. The low-end on the cut I got from John is very clean. I have no idea what kit he uses but he gets results to my ears.

Cheers,
Justin

[spectacular g]

http://www.midatlanticdigital.com/

Robyn Robbins mastered our last cd and it came out really well I think.


next time
jfg
www.jacklord.us

[isa215]

ah yes - you are right - he did have some EAR outboard (although it was a while ago that I was there - he may well have upgraded/added to this). All I remember distinctly were the Manley Pultec EQs.

Anyway - good results at any rate.

[chrisaiken]

Originally posted by Jules
Supervise the WHOLE session to the end. I caught 2 ME's who shall remain nameless 'somewhere in the UK' popping a Junger limiter or a Lexican limiter on AFTER the artist's, lables & my (producer) approval and didnt really think that was right...

At all...

tutt

I advise you stick to the end and dont let them 'shoo' you out early + get an assurance that they wont mess with the mastering job any further.

That's completely uncool!!So uncool I'm wondering why you would choose to have them remain nameless?I would think names to avoid would be might be more helpfull.
Chris

[Paul Gold]

Originally posted by Thermionic
From what I can tell he didn't apply any compression, or eq that I can hear. I'd describe the result as a faithful transcription of the master I sent.

I wonder why that is such a rare commodity? That is the way it should be. Most places including me chage one price for a "flat" cut and another for studio time. If a flat cut is what's requested that's what's done. It should sound like the source. Every Neumann system should sound close in stock configuration. I like others chip away at the remaining few percent (high end anyone?). The older ones (VG66) sound like they have a couple of transformers but are not very colored. The SAL 74B is transformerless and has more powerful drive amps which helps transient response at low levels. It doesn't make louder records. At todays levels the increased transient response at low level is somewhat of a moot point. By the time it helps the record is too low in level.

I spend a lot of time making sure the lathe is both mechanically and electronicaly calibrated. I also make sure I get the cleanest transfer I can. I will generally sacrifice level for frequency response in this case. I also ask questions along those lines before I do the cut.

[Thermionic]

I wonder why that is such a rare commodity?

Join the club… In all honesty, if it wasn’t for the surface noise, you could put Mr Dent’s cut next to the CD I submitted and hear virtually no difference. One reason for the wild QC variation on modern cuts could be budget-conscious time restrictions imposed by labels nowadays; with over-bright masters on digi formats to contend with the M.E doesn’t have the time to utilise perfectly precise subtractive eq (is it ever perfectly precise?) and has to tame the worst excesses speedily and prime the head to cut. I’m not sure everyone comprehends the concept of making vinyl-friendly masters on digi formats.

I often compare cuts made in different territories of the same tracks. The strange thing is how much variation there can be, it almost sounds like different mixes from different studio control-rooms when I know they’re from the same master! An example that springs to mind would be the startling difference in “sonic personality” between say Mike or Nilz at The Exchange – even though I’ve had cuts from either, in the same room on the same gear with minimal processing, you can always tell “that’s a Mike” or “that’s a Nilz”. I can only conclude the difference is down to their personal preferences for level (Nilz will cut louder than Mike as a rule) and how they configure the lathe set-up.

If you get a spare minute Paul, I would be interested to hear your perspective on how vinyl M.Es can sound so individual when little or no processing is applied.

Please don’t think I’m trying to puff up my chest here (there’s more to artistry than a relatively flat spread as we know) but, on pretty well every cut I’ve had in the last 5 or so years there has never been a need to apply more than 1.5dB of eq in any direction – usually a touch of air at 16 or so K is all that’s been needed (I’ve learnt to be conservative with HF and tend to err on the side of caution, I don’t find 1 or so dB at 16K upsets the balance too much anyway). My point is that even with virtually no processing each ME seems to retain their “sound”, and it’s led me to believe that a considerable part of the vinyl-cutting engineer’s sound comes from how they configure the mechanical set-up.

Because I tend to focus on overall perspective and separation with a mix and tend to master fairly dry, I’ve actually had equal success on unattended cuts - in all honesty sometimes they are better than when I attend (maybe that’s because the ME doesn’t have me pestering them asking what kind of feedback topology their head-amps use or whether they prefer the ATR-100 to the MR-70…). I know it goes against the wisdom that the M.Es give out at these boards, but I’ve had surprising results on unattended cuts; is it because they are free to cut when they feel like it, say after work when it’s quiet, or is because I’m a pita? (I fear a combination of both).

Cheers,
Justin

[toolskid]

had great results from John Dent

[Paul Gold]

you can always tell “that’s a Mike” or “that’s a Nilz”. I can only conclude the difference is down to their personal preferences for level (Nilz will cut louder than Mike as a rule) and how they configure the lathe set-up.

If amount and quality of high end is the difference then level is the culprit. The louder you make it the less high end you can put on. I know that the Exchange is willing to blow up cutterheads. They always have a couple out for repair. So they can get more high end on the disk than others will. When you push the level at the high end that much you can't help but get tracing distortion on playback so I don't really get the point. I guess it sounds good with an overweighted cartridge on a worn record, played from a compression driver at 130dB SPL. Takes the edge off.

and it’s led me to believe that a considerable part of the vinyl-cutting engineer’s sound comes from how they configure the mechanical set-up.

It almost certainly isn't the mechanical set-up. Once that is locked in adjustment is punishable by death. If more than one engineer is working on a system any changes would be agreed upon.

The user adjustable mechanical parameters like pitch and depth will affect mostly trackability issues. These can contribute to the sound but it is a pretty rare thing.

I got stumped once with something along these lines. I cut an EP of noisy rock from a master supplied by an engineer I do a lot of cutting for. It was done well and there wasn't much high end on it so I cut it really hot. No problem because it sounded like the source. I cut a 4mil (deep) groove so it would track well. The band said it was distorting. So I re cut it 3dB lower. Still distorting. So I recut it in mono. Still distorting. It turns out whatever cartridge they used couldn't track a 4 mil groove. Now every 7" 45 is cut at 4mil and most 12" singles are cut that way. Go figure.

[lucey]

Originally posted by Jules
Supervise the WHOLE session to the end. I caught 2 ME's who shall remain nameless 'somewhere in the UK' popping a Junger limiter or a Lexican limiter on AFTER the artist's, lables & my (producer) approval and didnt really think that was right...

At all...

tutt

I advise you stick to the end and dont let them 'shoo' you out early + get an assurance that they wont mess with the mastering job any further.

Honestly ... if there is even a hint of concern about this level of so-called service, you're shopping on the wrong Continent. A good ME can do what you want even when you're not around.



Sorry to self-promote but I do mastering for some Southampton artists, and for probably pence on the pound compared to your London MEs ... 6-800 tops.

One of these Southampton bands is in contract with One Little Indian (UK) thanks in no small part to a substantial mastering 'upgrade'