mixing on a Neve VR Legend

[nickynicknick]

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[drumkideric]

I've done a few projects on one. I think they sound pretty good. The channel strip is the same as the UAD 88RS plug-in, if that helps any. The one thing that drives me crazy about the console, is that everything is crammed together. It can be hard on the eyes looking for knobs.
The EQ on it is really dramatic, a little goes a long ways. One last thing is that is runs VERY hot. It really heats of the room.
Hope that helps some.

[nickynicknick]

Originally Posted by drumkideric

I've done a few projects on one. I think they sound pretty good. The channel strip is the same as the UAD 88RS plug-in, if that helps any. The one thing that drives me crazy about the console, is that everything is crammed together. It can be hard on the eyes looking for knobs.
The EQ on it is really dramatic, a little goes a long ways. One last thing is that is runs VERY hot. It really heats of the room.
Hope that helps some.

thanks Eric...does "sounds pretty good" mean you like it better than say an SSL...or it's nowhere near a classic neve but it'll do in a pinch?

Nick

[drumkideric]

I have never mixed on any other Neve console, but compared to an SSL G+, I find that it has a bit more color than the SSL. I find the workflow on the SSL to be much smoother, mainly due to the more spaced out layout and design. It really just has its own sound, which some people can like, and others not. I can say that you definitely should be able to get great sounding mixes with it, it will do the job.

[raal]

Originally Posted by drumkideric

The channel strip is the same as the UAD 88RS plug-in, if that helps any.

FWIW no V series desk has the same strip as an 88R or RS. different beast altogether. never heard the plug but i assume it emulates the 88RS desk.

[BrianT]

I've mixed a bunch on the VRs back in the 90's.

They can sound very good, or not.

There is a mod for the summing bus amp, included in the later models, but not with the early ones. It is VITAL for that console to have the modded, improved summing amp.

Night and day difference. Make sure and check. I mixed Dusty Springfield's last album in London at Whitefield. Their VR did not have the mod and I insisted that I would not mix their without it.

They thought I was being a Diva. Until they did the swap, at which point they thanked me profusely. With the mod, it's a good console. I recommend pushing the stereo bus hard. Very hard. Don't be afraid to crank the channel Line Trims and really run the whole chain hot up until the Stereo Master, which you should feel free to pull back a good bit.

Once you get the mix nailed, you can try trimming all the Faders up or down while compensating with the Stereo Master. Find the sweet spot in the stereo bus for the attitude you're looking for.

Wow, that's more than I planned to type. Good luck. I've mixed a few hits on that console.

[six_wax]

Worked on one intermittently for a year or two. Ours did have a custom summing bus mod. VRs can sound great (BIG & WIIIDE), but you have to fight a bit to keep them clean-sounding.

We were in the habit of putting all the processing (dyn/eq/ins) in the monitor path (i.e. out of the channel path) by pressing the assigns on each channel strip en masse before we even started. This went along way towards cleaning up the signal path.

EQ is fine & very usable, definitely colorful. I found the channel compressors pretty damn handy. Be aware that the switches get dirty and are notoriously difficult to clean... So be prepared to press things 3 or 4 times just to be safe.

Routing and workflow isn't quite as easy as on an SSL, but once you know what you're doing, you'll be fine. The 'sound' of the board can be far more flattering than most SSLs once you start working it.

[six_wax]

Oh yeah... I've seen people have different views on the Line Trim protocol on VRs...

I figured this might have had something to do with the unmodded summing bus limitations, but I've never been clear on why people steered one way or another --and I've never heard 2 engineers tell the same story.

If anyone more seasoned on these boards wants to clear that up for me, I'd be much obliged. BrianT?

[madlabs-john]

on the line trim, Cherney, Guzauski and other old school guys turnrd the trims down about 6 db across the console befor they started mixing. They said it made the EQ sound better with out overloading it and like what it did for the mix.

[nickynicknick]

Thanks so much everyone. That's a lot of good stuff. I'll check into the mod. re the line trims...that's something I'm sure will become apparent pretty quick...about taking the processing out of the chanel path by assigning right off the top...could you give me a little more detail on this...I'm confused...how does this take it out of the chanel path?

nick

[Musiclab]

Originally Posted by madlabs-john

on the line trim, Cherney, Guzauski and other old school guys turnrd the trims down about 6 db across the console befor they started mixing. They said it made the EQ sound better with out overloading it and like what it did for the mix.

John I think you would know better than any of the rest of us. BTW I'm still using some v series eq's and compressor that you modded years ago, and liking themthumbsup

[BrianT]

Main think to remember is that gain staging on the VRs is part of the sonic palette.

Line Trims up vs down, faders up v s down, stereo master up vs down all make a big difference.

Hey one other cool thing. Once, as an experiment, I zero'd a tone on a channel and then off-line trimmed the Flying Fader .1dB 30 times.

The result was exactly 3dB. Impressive QA.

[nickynicknick]

Originally Posted by BrianT

Main think to remember is that gain staging on the VRs is part of the sonic palette.

Line Trims up vs down, faders up v s down, stereo master up vs down all make a big difference.

Hey one other cool thing. Once, as an experiment, I zero'd a tone on a channel and then off-line trimmed the Flying Fader .1dB 30 times.

The result was exactly 3dB. Impressive QA.

Hey Brian...I'm hearin' you on gain staging...thanks for the heads up...the VR sounds like she wants you to work her a bit...I'm OK with manhanding a mix a little...what about bussing how many busses on the 48 ch console?

[MarkRB]

VR is the most satisfying board i've worked on.

That desk is from the 'Red Lights Good' era IMHO.
Just be sure to drive the desk not the line ins when mixing. Loud channels and a lower main bus works for me.

[soentkensound]

Originally Posted by nickynicknick

Hey Brian...I'm hearin' you on gain staging...thanks for the heads up...the VR sounds like she wants you to work her a bit...I'm OK with manhanding a mix a little...what about bussing how many busses on the 48 ch console?

Hi Nicky,


You can make as much busses as you've got multitrack-sendswitches.

I'm working on a VRL for over a year now.
These things rock. I find it more difficult to mix the cleaner acoustic stuff.
But I would say it is great desk.
The VR's are becoming old now. Watch out for those crackin switches when you print the mix.
I would say the desk sounds a little dark. But nothing to worry about.
the gaining-Tips of Brian T are very good, but cost some to find out.
The meters on the desk are a little bit too enthousiast.

I'm interested about that mod though.

Does anybody know from what year they deliverd the modded bus?
But I gues I could call Neil (neve) about that.


greets

[TonyBelmont]

The VR is a very nice sounding console... If not for the maintenance issues and space, I would buy one.

If the studio keeps it in good working condition, I think you'll be happy with it sonically.

[Matt Allison]

Originally Posted by MarkRB

Just be sure to drive the desk not the line ins when mixing.

Confused about what you mean here. Can you elaborate?

[nickynicknick]

Thanks everybody.

Nick

[BrianT]

Originally Posted by Matt Allison

Confused about what you mean here. Can you elaborate?

The line trims are an important variable, as the console channel strip has a different sound depending on how hot it is driven.

What I've found is that the "right" setting there depends on how hot the multitrack was cut, what genre you're mixing, and your personal taste. One size does not fit all.

What MarkRB is saying is to run the line trims lower, the channel faders hotter, and the Stereo bus lower. Lots of times that's cool. But not always. Sometimes I cranked the line trims on certain channels I wanted really tuff and edgy. Sometimes, I drove them into clipping on purpose. I think the VR channel clips cooler than any other console I've heard, and I've used that on bass, guitar and even ghosted vocals.

In fact, the guitar solo on Wynnona's "No One Else On Earth" was cut clean. I trashed it for the pop/single mix, using only the line trim on the VR. I like the way it sounds.

Lower the line trims for a more open, classic sound, unless of course the multitrack is recorded at conservative levels, in which case it won't matter if they are lowered.

I think the only thing you can really learn from this thread is what's available in the pantry. Your tastebuds will have to decide how you want to bake it.

[Enos]

I'm mixing an album on one of these consoles this week. I tracked all of it with the same desk and everything sounds brilliant! The desk is a Neve VR Legend (60faders) with Flying Faders.

It is a very nice desk but I'd say is best suited for tracking/mixing things like rock bands, jazz, folk, etc...anything with live instruments in it. For more electronic, hip hop, R&B stuff SSL tends to be smoother, cleaner and more pristine. Tracking on a Neve and mixing in SSL is a brilliant combiantion if possible!

But yea, the EQ's on the VR are really sensitive (a little goes a long way) and the desk gets really hot! Need aircon on all the time :p

Hope this is of any help !