Inward Connections TSL1 Limiter

[thethrillfactor]

Looks like Steve Firlotte is making the Vac Rac limiters again(TSL1 stereo limiter with built in power supply). Its distributed by Boutique Audio, and he builds 5 at a time. I'm thinking of getting in line and picking one up!!! So if anyone is interested in the Lord Alge "thing", here is your chance.

[Dave Martin]

I've got a pair now, and they are nice. There'a also a guy selling some Vac Rac gear - I think he posted his list on RAP.

[thethrillfactor]

Dave I was curious, what do you use your Vac Rac limiters the most on? Tracking or when mixing?

Thanks.

[Dave Martin]

Originally posted by thethrillfactor
Dave I was curious, what do you use your Vac Rac limiters the most on? Tracking or when mixing?

Thanks.

Well, I haven't really been using them that much these days. Not that I dislike them or anything - it's simply that I go through phases of choosing different compressors to use for a given application, and in overdub situations, I'm most likely to use whatever's already set up and patched in... But I tend to use them most for tracking acoustic instruments other than guitars - mandolin, fiddle, dobro (when I don't want to accentuate the obnoxious mid range qualities of a dobro - for that I use a Summit TLA) and banjo. But since you reminded me about it, I've got a harmonica overdub in about an hour, and I'll use one there. The signal path wil most likely be a Lawson L47MP to a Great River NV to the Vac Rac Limiter. I need to re-familiarize myself with the Vac Rac.

[thethrillfactor]

Hi Dave, I had a Vac Rac EQ and limiter way back when. I remember loving the EQ when mixing on snares(for a tube Eq I use the manley pultec) and the limiter on certain vocals. I got rid of it though a while back and I've had regrets ever since(especially with some of the vocals you get to mix these days, man talk about sibilance). By the way Dave, I remember reading a magazine a while back(maybe recording I think), where Richard Dodd, Bill V. and i think it was you, compared a whole bunch of tube compressors to a LA2A. I always wanted to ask what was that like? I know there are mic pre and mic shoot out things these days, but I thought this was the most interesting. I'm sure it created a lot of controversy(Dodd I remember didn't like anything). What were your impressions of the Greg Hanks BA660?

[Dave Martin]

Originally posted by thethrillfactor
Hi Dave, I had a Vac Rac EQ and limiter way back when. I remember loving the EQ when mixing on snares(for a tube Eq I use the manley pultec) and the limiter on certain vocals. I got rid of it though a while back and I've had regrets ever since(especially with some of the vocals you get to mix these days, man talk about sibilance). By the way Dave, I remember reading a magazine a while back(maybe recording I think), where Richard Dodd, Bill V. and i think it was you, compared a whole bunch of tube compressors to a LA2A. I always wanted to ask what was that like? I know there are mic pre and mic shoot out things these days, but I thought this was the most interesting. I'm sure it created a lot of controversy(Dodd I remember didn't like anything). What were your impressions of the Greg Hanks BA660?

Yeah, I still use the EQ's on kick and snare every mix. And I want to get back into the habit of using more of them elsewhere (I've got 6 of their EQ's), but as I said earlier, I go through phases where I use certain gear all the time and then put it aside for a while. I don't think I've used my Manley EQ's in a couple of years, now that I think about it - I was using them on acoustic guitars, but the Millennia NSEQ took that position.

I remember that article - mostly it was me, Bil, David Hungate (once Toto's bassist, now producing here as well) and bassist Mike Chapman, who has played on all of Garth Brooks' records, with outside opinions on some units from Richard Dodd and Fletcher, I think (though I don't know if Fletcher's words made publication - ****ing editors!)

For me it was huge fun, having that many tube based compressors to play with - in my other life, I'm a bass player, so I got to spend a few days choosing the perfect compressor for my studio bass rack, and just screwing around. We didn't have the BA660 - I don't think it was in production then. And there are only a couple of those boxes that I liked and don't own now - the one that comes to mind is the Evil Twin La-La Limiter. On one level, it would be fund to do that again, but (A) there are a lot more tube compressors now than in those days, and (B) I'm a whole lot busier than I was back then. I don't know when I could find the time to do it again.

As I remember, the article was strictly a personal preference thing - I'd try a few signals on each model, twisting knobs as appropriate and write down what we thought each one sounded like. A couple of us have discussed the idea of trying to do something as controlled as Lynn Fuston has done with his shootouts, but we can't figure out anyway to quantify or set up repeatable settings on different units. The last time I talked to the guys at Audio Precision, they didn't even have a way to accurately measure the knee of a limiter and make a printable graph.

And since all of this stuff is based on personal preference, the settings that I would use, for instance, with an LA-2A on a lead vocal would most likely be different than what you would use. And there are only two knobs on an LA-2A. The number of variations goes up, of course, with compressors with more controls. That means that we really couldn't do a CD like Lynn did - or if we did, if would have no real meaning. to anyone but me on the night I actually did it. The next day, I would probably choose different settings...

But it was definitely gear slut heaven for a couple of weeks.

[thethrillfactor]

And there are only a couple of those boxes that I liked and don't own now - the one that comes to mind is the Evil Twin La-La Limiter.


Hi Dave, you are correct on this one(I think I confused it with the BA660). Yeah that issue was great, seeing all of those tube compressors in one situation must have been daunting. I think I must have read that issue like 50 times. What were some of your favorites? I know you are a CL1B fan(I've read your posts in the past), and you own a vari-mu,Tla 100, and a 1960?(maybe?). Were your impressions of the Vac Rac stuff back then the same as it is now? What I remember back then, what people didn't dig about them was that they sounded so clean for tubes(this was the mid 90's when the tube thing was the buzz word). So the common masses stood away(I guess back then we called them the Adat/Tascam crowd). Also it was kind of expensive(not like the price people ask for the stuff now, man talk about ridiculous!!). Ever since it was printed that the Alge brothers totally dug Steve stuff(I remember even back then they were pushing it, I thought they might have had a stock in the company), it drove the price for the limiters through the roofin the used market(double and sometimes triple what they cost originally). Go figure.

[mwagener]

still using those on guitars

[Dave Martin]

Originally posted by mwagener
still using those on guitars

Ah, if I only had a digital camera I could see you and raise you on Vac Rac gear. I've got 4 preamps, 6 EQ's and 2 limiters in a rack (along with other stuff...) it looks like the fire control center from a submarine...

[Dave Martin]

Originally posted by thethrillfactor

What were some of your favorites? I know you are a CL1B fan(I've read your posts in the past), and you own a vari-mu,Tla 100, and a 1960?(maybe?). Were your impressions of the Vac Rac stuff back then the same as it is now? What I remember back then, what people didn't dig about them was that they sounded so clean for tubes(this was the mid 90's when the tube thing was the buzz word). So the common masses stood away(I guess back then we called them the Adat/Tascam crowd). Also it was kind of expensive(not like the price people ask for the stuff now, man talk about ridiculous!!)

Well, my current list of tube based compressors includes a UA LA-2A reissue, a pair of Summit mono compressors, a Peavey (the best 'bang for the buck' tube box in my collection) a modified Drawmer 1960, a Drawmer 1969, a 2 channel Vari-Mu, a mono Vari-Mu, a Manley ELOP, a Millennia TCL-2, 3 CL1B's and the pair of Vac Racs. I don't remember which pieces I may have already owned, but I know that the first time I heard the Vac Rac gear was then, and it must have been the first time I heard the Variu-Mu as well. I still like the Vac Racs - After this thread started, I decided to use one of them for a Harmonica overdub I did that afternoon. It strikes me as being much more transparent than an LA2A, and with larger amounts of gain reduction, even more than the Millennia (The TCL2 doesn't, to my ear, change the tone much at al, but you can sure hear it suck down...).

Back then, I didn't (and still don't) buy into the 'tube gear can't be clean' school of thought, so that wasn't an issue. (In fact, the Millennia TCL-2 and NSEQ bear me out on that belief.) The idea that you had to buy the rack with 4 units in it made the whole package pretty expensive (especially at one shot), but it worked out to about $1000 per channel for the compressors and the rack - less expensive per channel than a Summit or a Manley ELOP. I seem to remember that the preamps were less expensive and the EQ's were more expensive than the limiters. I probably still have the old list prices around somewhere, but I have no idea where it may be.

[alphajerk]

anyone take notice of the MP820? wouldnt that be a killer "desk" for a DAW? lookin all old school sitting in front of it even though all it is are modules

i wonder how these new ones compare to the old ones? that MP820 is $8k, whew! even the control room monitor section is $3200!!! but yikes! it could sound wicked... and a BIG element of the goods that come out of your studio being the link between the source and the monitors.

cool pic mw, you gonna show me your studio? i got a screwdriver in my backpocket :eek: jk, no really.

[mwagener]

Originally posted by alphajerk
cool pic mw, you gonna show me your studio?

absolutely, would love to, we probably can do NAMM in a couple of hours and have the rest of the day for the "real"stuff

i got a screwdriver in my backpocket :eek:

better bring a blowtorch

[e-cue]

Wow, 4? I got the 2 eq, 2 lim set up. I use both (Lim into Eq) on mults of my kick & snare... Schweet

[Dave Martin]

Originally posted by e-cue
Wow, 4? I got the 2 eq, 2 lim set up. I use both (Lim into Eq) on mults of my kick & snare... Schweet

If you're responding to Michael's picture, I believe that all four are preamps. but I do like the EQ's on kick and snare when I mix.

[e-cue]

Yeah, he got the 4 pre ish.

I wish I could stop cranking the doghell out of 800 htz for the "Knock" on my snare drums, but these things just make it sound so nice...

[Dave Martin]

Originally posted by e-cue
Yeah, he got the 4 pre ish.

I wish I could stop cranking the doghell out of 800 htz for the "Knock" on my snare drums, but these things just make it sound so nice...

Now you made me go look - On the last track I mixed, I've got 300Hz and 3kHz boosted 2 dB on the Vac Rac, and when I last tracked the snare, I apparently cut 500Hz and boosted 10K a dB or two (according to the EQ on the Daking).

I may have to try a little 800 Hz...

[alphajerk]

mmm i just love that 300hz region on the snare. i just did an incredibly frustrating project and started with one of the worst sounding snares i have recorded in a long time [not my fault the drummer hit the ****ing thing so hard and knocked the springs loose] and ended up using a 5" snare... you would never tell it was that shallow by the recording.

[e-cue]

Hahaha, you people... Now I'm back on my 300 "Floor Tom With Snares" kick...