Converter Question...

[matt thomas]

all digital devices have their own clocks built in

You have to sync there clocks when running one digital device connected digitally to another digital device. Simply put this is so the samples of each unit map 1 to 1 on to the samples of the other units.

If you have a lot of digital devices it is probably better to use a master clock to sync them all.

Some people say a higher quality clock can make your converters sound better. Some people disagree (so long as you are running reasonable gear)

an apogee AD-16X can only output 8 channels of digital into an 003. this is because the 003 only has 8 chanels of adat input. (and two more of spdif, if you can figure that out you may be able to get 10 all up) (I think)

Another option (for pro tools LE) is one of the m-audio interfaces which allows 24 digital ins. (I think)

I dont understand your last question

narco

[bxt403]

IMO- this is a really good essay explaining/debating the many issues regarding clocking from Black Lion Audio:

http://www.blacklionaudio.com/Word_Clock_Myths.pdf

Hope that helps,

[peeder]

No name is signed to the Black Lion whitepaper (even though it's written in the 1st person), and I think that's appropriate...no one wants it to be pinned to their name when it's demonstrated otherwise.

I am one who has never been convinced that external clocks help anything other than syncing multiple chassis (and making a few people easy money). I've read posts and papers from Dan Lavry, Bob Katz, and Digidesign explaining with less speculation why internal clock is superior. The only graph I've ever seen illustrate the topic was in Digidesign's whitepaper. One would think the clockmakers (Apogee and BLA are the most shamelessly hard-selling I've seen) would produce reproducible audio precision plots to refute that chart if it was false.

Run your converters on internal sync whenever possible. If you have only two or three chassis, preferably use AES black or optical connections to sync the others to your most critical master converter. Spend the money you would have put into the clock snake oil on a nice new mic or preamp.

[living sounds]

It depends on the converter. If the converter itself has a good (internal) clock external clocking won't do any good. However, with a bad or average clock (like the one in your average audiocard, one that gets it's power from the computer's power supply) a great external clock will in most cases make a big difference.

[narcoman]

Originally Posted by violet

I'm having a hard time finding online teaching of anything and everything converters. Anyone have a good link, or an input.

-Clock, what is it used for why do you need it. (big ben, bla micro clock) Is it only used for bring lets say 2 Apogee 800's together?

-Lets say you have 16 pres, running them into a AD-16X, can they go into a 003. if so s/dif?

-If you have '2' ADA-8XR, 14 pres and protools. What is the protcol in getting the talent into protools?

thank you in advanced.

In answer to your last question - the easiest way is to use the PT-HD cards from Prism themselves.

[Fletcher]

Originally Posted by peeder

No name is signed to the Black Lion whitepaper (even though it's written in the 1st person), and I think that's appropriate...no one wants it to be pinned to their name when it's demonstrated otherwise.

Interesting point... though one could construe that this is a "company wide belief" and that it might be the owner of the company who wrote this "whitepaper". FWIW I have never believed a "white paper" to be much more than an advertising vehicle cloaked in a wrapper of science.

I am one who has never been convinced that external clocks help anything other than syncing multiple chassis (and making a few people easy money). I've read posts and papers from Dan Lavry, Bob Katz, and Digidesign explaining with less speculation why internal clock is superior.

... and I've heard Lavry equipment, DigiDesign equipment, Apogee equipment, iZ equipment, Lynx equipment, RME equipment, blah, blah, blah change in tone with the application of an external clock... sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse. Sometimes the changes are incredibly subtle... sometimes they're as noticable a truck bomb in the marketplace.

Internal clocks, when they are of excellent quality, are generally [from what I've found IN APPLICATION] very often superior to their external counterparts... on the other hand I have found that there are more than a couple of things in the "excellent" range that benefited greatly from an external clock in certain applications.

The only graph I've ever seen illustrate the topic was in Digidesign's whitepaper. One would think the clockmakers (Apogee and BLA are the most shamelessly hard-selling I've seen) would produce reproducible audio precision plots to refute that chart if it was false.

One would think that [I don't know about you, but I do know about me] I don't record "Audio Precision" plots... I record music... and while Audio Precision charts are of paramount importance to designers and technical folks... they're about as useful as balls on a chicken to the people that use this stuff. I make my determinations by ear ONLY and personally couldn't give a rat's ass what's on any chart, graph or glossy color photograph with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one.

Run your converters on internal sync whenever possible. If you have only two or three chassis, preferably use AES black or optical connections to sync the others to your most critical master converter. Spend the money you would have put into the clock snake oil on a nice new mic or preamp.

I seriously beg to differ because I've heard the difference... also, from what I understand... AES is a more stable clock source than SP/DIF... which is what is being shot down that optical line... so perhaps optical ain't the best way to go about this stuff either.

[narcoman]

I agree with you on that point about White papers Fletch. Before I went into music full time I was a mathematical research fellow, after doing a PhD.

I always found industry sponsored research a little oxymornic - they tended to find the results that suited them, indeed one of my post-doc papers was grounded because it didnt particularly tie-in with what was required! This, of course, is not always true - but in a world of political and market place spin it is very difficult to take "corporate research" very seriously. Better to offer funding to technical institutes if anything - you are on at least firmer (although not infallible) ground.

Their political counterparts are often in place to back up some party line. So this is true for coprporate ones. It should be noted that a company "white paper" is NOT the same as a published academic research paper in a reputable academic research journal - nor should they be viewed as one. From a company perspective - a white paper is closer to a technically oriented product brochure.... although there certainly is some (biased) educational info out there...