Telefunkem ELAM 251 copies??

[MattioliCo]

Hi everyone, first post here...
Looking for the best copy or closer sound to the Telefunkem ELAM 251?
I've heard good things about these mics :

Soundelux ELUX 251
Lawson L251
Peluso
Stephen Paul

Any opinions?? Other suggestions...???

[DanV]

I've only worked with the Peluso, never used a real 251 or any other clone for that matter. So I can't say the Peluso is at all similar to the real deal. I trust that John Peluso (who has been repairing Nuemanns/Telefunkens for over 30 years) does however know what he is doing; he has constructed things superbly considering the price bracket which he has managed to squeeze into.

The 22 251 is a great one , the price:performance is simply awesome, truly luscious on everything I have used it with - it is a dark bass machine - very friendly to high frequencies but not airy enough for me to say it can take center stage on most vocals.
I don't claim to be Mr. Professor Gear here so I'll spare us all any more audio nouns. Quantifying this stuff through words is a bit rough... But luckily I am in NYC - so you can PM me and I could gladly arrange for a demo.

Cheers!

[MattioliCo]

" ...But luckily I am in NYC - so you can PM me and I could gladly arrange for a demo."



Thanks a lot Dan!
I'll stop by for a listenning session.

[deft_bonz]

Originally posted by danv1983
I've only worked with the Peluso, never used a real 251 or any other clone for that matter. So I can't say the Peluso is at all similar to the real deal. I trust that John Peluso (who has been repairing Nuemanns/Telefunkens for over 30 years) does however know what he is doing; he has constructed things superbly considering the price bracket which he has managed to squeeze into.

The 22 251 is a great one , the price:performance is simply awesome, truly luscious on everything I have used it with - it is a dark bass machine - very friendly to high frequencies but not airy enough for me to say it can take center stage on most vocals.
I don't claim to be Mr. Professor Gear here so I'll spare us all any more audio nouns. Quantifying this stuff through words is a bit rough... But luckily I am in NYC - so you can PM me and I could gladly arrange for a demo.

Cheers!

that's the first time i've heard from peluso. of course as a real gearslut i've had to look around the web and just found his homepage. his prices are just unbelievable. a real bargain, even if the sound comes "only" 90% to an original elam 251.

the 251 clone is as 5 times cheaper as lawson's one.

can it keep up with lawson and soundelux? have you (or anybody else) could compare them? maybe with an original one?

kind regards deft:::

[Fletcher]

Originally posted by deft_bonz
the 251 clone is as 5 times cheaper as lawson's one.

Ya know, the key word in that sentence is indeed "cheaper". I'll bet if you order 4 you can get free eggroll... so while we're here... I've never heard the Peluso mic, but I've heard all kinds of crap with Chinese capsules [and worse, I've first hand experience with Mr. Peluso's work as an acoustician]... and frankly I have been underwhelmed...

That someone else likes the mic is wonderful, but something tells me that it might be rather far from the beauty and oppulence afforded the listener by a real CK-12 capsule... call it an 'educated guess'.

The Soundelux can be made to sound like an original 251 without a struggle, we've ordered them that way for a couple of clients but the "off the shelf" version has considerably more "air" to it. Seems that most folks these days like 'airy' sounding microphones and the original 251 E's weren't all that airy sounding [the 251 "non-E"s were airier sounding but that's because of the AC 701/k tube].

I haven't heard the Lawson but Gene has been doing great work for a bunch of years... I can't imagine it not being a tool worthy of investigation.

Best of luck with the search.

[DanV]

I strongly doubt that someones inferior acoustic work makes for a good indicator of how well they can design a mic. No disrespect, I'm not saying you've made this exact judgement Fletcher - or that you are trying to suggest this - but I do find the statement to be pretty off topic in relation to John's mic crafting skills...... but hell - an eggroll does sound nice right about now! Lets see - where did I place that menu....

Time will tell what other actual users think.

What I do know is that even if it doesn't come that close to realistically emulating the real thing or isn't as great in one way or another as the other clones may be - the Pelusos are still simply amazing for their price. And no - they aren't gnarly on the high end - quite the opposite of harsh. Some of the metal and case work is the only thing done in China - the capsule is designed to Peluso's spec and then sputtering and diaphragm work is done at their lab in the
U.S. of A.

Back to our regularly scheduled programming.

[Lynn Fuston]

Let me chime in here and say that David Bock's Soundelux ELUX 251 is a work of art. I don't know how close it comes to an original 251 and I don't care. I tried one out for a week and on this project we did the "parade of vocalists" in front of the ELUX 251. I recorded six different vocalists, 3 male and 3 female, and never once felt the desire to reach for a different mic. Or an EQ.

But I had lots of preamps at my disposal. So if the sound was too small, I'd plug it into the Manley SLAM. If it was not present enough or not centered enough, it would go into the Mercury M72, a cool discovery from the latest round of preamp testing. If either of those weren't perfect, then it was the Cranesong Flaming-O for a delightful transparent sound that was totally pure. Out of the six vocalists, I used the 251 on everyone and only changed preamps and never had to EQ once. I mixed that project last week and my initial impressions were honest. The vocal tracks all sounded amazing.

I ordered my ELUX 251 last week. I've listened to lots of mics. I can't remember the last time a mic sounded so superlative on so many different singers.

It's pretty amazing on acoustic guitar as well.

[Greg Heimbecker]

I haven't used my elux on voice much yet because I'm so in love with the thing as an overhead

[Meriphew]

Another vote for the Elux 251. It's an incredible mic.

[MIKEHARRIS]

and the new cardiod only version...the 250..with less top end (we had a custom 251 built this way) should be a gearslutz dream..at a big saving

[cdog]

ELUX 251 ... bliss

[Lynn Fuston]

Originally posted by MIKEHARRIS
and the new cardiod only version...the 250..with less top end (we had a custom 251 built this way) should be a gearslutz dream..at a big saving

I held the first 250 this past weekend. At the price, it should be a killer. It's like half of the 251s price. I asked David how he did that in the on camera interview that I did with him. Watch for it at 3dB, posted as a QT movie.

[MattioliCo]

I would like to say Thanks for all the replies so far....
I also found out that Telefunken USA is reproducing the ELAM 251,
but for a lot more money than the Soundelux, Lawson, Peluso, etc...But Pro Audio magazine has an article about the new Elam 251s and a brief comparison of the 3 mics (Lawson, Soundelux and New Elam 251) saying that its the closest sound to the vintage ones.

http://www.proaudioreview.com/par/ju...ken_elam.shtml

Pro audio and Mix also have really good reviews about Lawson and Soundelux 251s stating that none of the companies tried to copy and exact mic, just used the same approach.

Price wise...what's the best deal on the street??

I'm a little bit curious to know if any ADK mics sound like the ones mentioned above...Anyone???

Ciao

[Brad Lunde]

One of the issues one cannot escape in vintage mics (of any kind) is that they vary tremendously in tone. You've all heard that many times. The capsule dirt accululation, degradation of films, PVC, tubes, cable, on and on.....will change things in a subtle, but noticeable way.

Many don't know that off axis response can vary tremendously from two that sound almost identical on axis, which will change one's perception of the mic. On top of that, power supply condition (if the capsule is "overpowered") affects the sound in a big way. On top of THAT, one's proximity to the mic changes everything, for with a 251, proximity effect behavior is a huge part of the mic's sound.

There are so many variables here, one can be 100% convinced something's the "exact same" and still be 100% wrong. Unless you can instanteously switch between two mics, you cannot remember one sound to the next perfectly enough to be accurate in selection 10 out of 10 times. 1/4 dB difference in level makes one have more bass and top. Unless the mics are in the exact same position relative to the singer, and I mean EXACT, the sound WILL be different. You could go on and on forever with this.

From years and years in the A-B business, in high end hi fi and in pro, I can tell you for SURE that a skilled demonstrator can make you think just about anything they want you to think. Its not hard. Timing of the switch, on what material, what cable, what angle you sit, the monitors involved, there are variables beyond belief.

Brad

[Lynn Fuston]

That's why I stress getting a mic you love instead of one that "sounds like" something else. Keep hunting until you find the mic that you wouldn't want to be without. I did.

[henryrobinett]

I have the Peluso 251 and the Peluso 22 47. I like both very much. I'm especially enamoured with the 22 47 as of late. I've used the Telefunken USA Elam 251 a fair amount and plan on borrowing it again to do a more thorough comparison later next week. I'll let you know.

[Klaus]

Originally posted by Lynn Fuston
That's why I stress getting a mic you love instead of one that "sounds like" something else.

Fine and well. Except when manufacturers deliberately seek the design proximity of their illustrious ancestors through copying the originals to the point that direct comparisons are not only inevitable, but should be rightfully demanded by everyone in the market for one of these copies.

Davis Bock's approach is fine by me- it's clear to anyone that his products are not direct copies, neither in design nor price point.

But we all should use the most rigorous standards of comparative nature on any mic or other piece of gear (up to the $300,000.- AC Cobra Replicas) that deliberately want the association with the original, for glory or money.

Kind regards,

Klaus Heyne

[MattioliCo]

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Fine and well. Except when manufacturers deliberately seek the design proximity of their illustrious ancestors through copying the originals to the point that direct comparisons are not only inevitable, but should be rightfully demanded by everyone in the market for one of these copies.

Davis Bock's approach is fine by me- it's clear to anyone that his products are not direct copies, neither in design nor price point.

But we all should use the most rigorous standards of comparative nature on any mic or other piece of gear (up to the $300,000.- AC Cobra Replicas) that deliberately want the association with the original, for glory or money.

Kind regards,

Klaus Heyne

---------------------------------------

Thank you Klaus, I agree!
Please put yourself in my situation guys...
Four months ago, I had no idea of what the "Microphone's World" was....
Everything is new for me and comparisons bet new mics and old ones are inevitable. I wish I could just by lots of mics and use in a bunch of sessions so I could pick my favorites but it's not a realiy today.
That's why I'm trying to figure out through all "YOUR EXPERIENCE" the best choices I could make. All years favorite mics have been picked from most experienced produers, engineers, big studios...well, I can't afford these mics so I gotta improvise and get the closest ones as I can't test them.
By the way, I would be more than gratefull if anybody in NYC would let me hear some of the high end mics in a session...Lots to learn : ) but I'll get there.

Obrigado,
MattioliCo

[MattioliCo]

It sounds cool Henry...Peluso mics seems to have satisfied users...
Let me know the results next week.

Take care,
MattioliCo

[deft_bonz]

Originally posted by Fletcher
Ya know, the key word in that sentence is indeed "cheaper". I'll bet if you order 4 you can get free eggroll... so

i've had the same thoughts, but you should always be without prejudices and listen to others opinions and give new things a try.

i thank you for your reply, deft:::

ps: nevertheless pelusos could be a bargain and worth a try.

[Fletcher]

Originally posted by danv1983
the capsule is designed to Peluso's spec and then sputtering and diaphragm work is done at their lab in the U.S. of A.

U.S of A-what? I'd love to see some pictures of this facility, or better yet get a tour of this facility... I like to travel

[Shawn1272]

I recently got a Lawson L251 (used, from this site!) and it rocks. Sounds amazing on vocals, although not that great on rock vocals (it's too nice, not enought grit). Sounds great on acoustic guitar and as a drum room mic out in front of the kick. I haven't been that impressed with it as an overhead....yet. But it sounds great on perc tracks. And to my surprise, the Lawson sounded absolutely a-m-a-z-i-n-g!!!! on a Fender Deluxe amp in omni. I thought there might be too much top and thus be too bright in the track but au-contrare, it rocked. I mic'ed the amp really close and about 45 degrees off-axis and it was butter, straight butter.

I've never heard a real 251 and I haven't heard the Soundelux or Peluso 251 copies, so I can't honestly make any comparisions. (I do have a Soundelux U-195 and it's built like a brick shithouse). I have heard one of the new Telefunken recreations and it was amazing but I can't spend that much money on a mic....yet. I am much more comfortable spending a few grand on a good mic and I feel that the Lawson is a very welcome addition to my mic closet. I will be using it for years to come.

shawn

[DanV]

Originally posted by Fletcher
I'd love to see some pictures of this facility, or better yet get a tour of this facility... I like to travel

Same here man!
I've just asked for some pics and further info, I will post back on GS once I've obtained the empirical data.

Cheers~

[XHipHop]

I remember like 3 years ago the real things were like $9000-$11000 from brokers. They've almost doubled in value in such a short time!!!

Man i wish i got one back then.

[Tetness]

For what it's worth. I used to rent vintage Elam-251's and loved them. I was at the NAMM show and had an oppurtunity to buy a new Elam-251 for thousand less. I bought it on the spot. I've got to tell you, I like it better than the vintage ones I used to rent. One, it doesn't make any noise after hours and hours of use. Two, it sounded fat, with this magical high end that blew me away -- no EQ required as long as you have the right pre pending the singer. Yes, there are vintage Elams that are a most likely a notch better. But they are rare and hard to find. So two thumbs up on the New US Telefunken Elam-251.

[camitchell]

I also have a Peluso 22 47 that I am very happy with. For some of the negative stuff that has been posted about his mics here, it seems most of it is by people who have admittedly not heard one. It would be interesting to hear from someone who tried one and did not like it.

[henryrobinett]

I LOVE the Peluso 22 47! It's beautiful, warm and rich. I'm still not certain about the Peluso 22 251. I'm not as happy with thsi one yet, but I have still to put it through it's paces. Doing this now.

[elambo]

The only explanation for someone to dislike Peluso's 47 is that they've never actually used one, that they don't like the sound of a real 47, or that there's biasing. For $1150 I could understand why a lot of people wouldn't want to accept this as a viable high-end option.

I did a test using my Peluso and a Neumann U47 (VF14) and two engineers had trouble deciphering between the real and clone.

[natpub]

Since no one else mentioned it, I will note that Korby also makes a 251 clone along with a pretty cool looking modular mic system:

http://www.vintageking.com/new_detai...nventoryID=565

there are several threads about it, as I recall.

[faeflora]

I won't recommend Stephen Paul Audio. They've taken over a year to replace a tube in one of my mics. I called them every day for the past two weeks, and each time I called, Tony gave a different reason why the mic wasn't ready, and fallaciously told me that the mic would be ready tomorrow. The next step will be formal.