patchbay sound quality?

[fondone]

do some patch bays actually have differences in sound quality?

for example : (features aside) does a samson patchbay have the exact same frequency response and sound quality as the best audio accessories patchbay?


I am looking for the worlds best patch bay and I need to know if "sound quality" is even an issue.....

thanks,

[Tibbon]

Patchbays really shouldn't affect the sound quality. Most of them really don't in the end. The frequency response of a patchbay should go from DC to several mhz if not higher. Audio ones aren't really any different than ones made for digital things like ethernet cables, etc... and those have to support up to the ghz range. Then again, it's like an inch of copper... it really SHOULDNT affect the frequency response any more than any other inch or copper should.

The quality issue comes in however for reliability. The last thing you want is one that crackles, pops, makes shitty connections, etc. A cheap one vs an expensive one might sound the same at first, but give it a few years down the line and that's when the 'quality' becomes apparent.

I'd personally get a good patchbay if I were you. 1/4" to 1/4" cheapo ones with lots of plastic aren't a good idea. Either soldered or punchdown. I'm perfectly happy with punchdown ones, even though theortically soldered could offer some advantages

[Rick Sutton]

I've always use soldered patch bays. I've taken (many times) wire wrap bays and turned them into solder bays. I've found many great deals over the years on used ones that are in great shape and priced at pennies on the dollar.

To me there are three types of "frequency responses" you get from bays.

1. Doesn't pass signal.

2. Intermittant or distorted.

3. Passes signal unaffected.

I prefer #3.

[Led]

Something to think about is the patch lead plug size. If you are on a budget the good quality tt patch cords can be a big expense if you use a lot. The plugs are the most part of the cost so it's not really much cheaper to make your own, unlike 1/4 inch bays. But you can fit a lot more on a tt bay.

[raal]

been using nickel plated TT bays for awhile now. supposedly easier to keep clean, more reliable contact, etc. - don't know if it's a wives' tale but i've had no problems with nickel bays (from different manufacturers) within the last several years.

[silverking]

Besides contact cleaning concerns, the other thing that can cause grief in patchbays is poor grounding schemes.

[Tibbon]

Originally Posted by Led

Something to think about is the patch lead plug size. If you are on a budget the good quality tt patch cords can be a big expense if you use a lot. The plugs are the most part of the cost so it's not really much cheaper to make your own, unlike 1/4 inch bays. But you can fit a lot more on a tt bay.

I find that you can get decent TT cables for around $12/each (Mogami) if you look around. I picked up a dozen or so at Sonic Circus a while ago, and they were just fine- but I did have to drive my car to Dorchester to do so. Not bad at all really. If you need more than 3 dozen TT cables... you have quite a setup and $400 of cables is the least of your problems. Might want to think of having some norms on there if you're using more than 36 cables.

I think it's way too funny that Guitar Center's "Pro Audio" section doesn't carry TT cables. What percentage of "pro" studios don't use TT (or longframe 1/4" which they don't carry either!) cables?

[Led]

12 bucks each... I wish.... You're looking at about 30 Australian here for 18 inch ones, the good ones at least. Maybe I should take my next holiday in Dorchester..

[Tibbon]

Originally Posted by Led

12 bucks each... I wish.... You're looking at about 30 Australian here for 18 inch ones, the good ones at least. Maybe I should take my next holiday in Dorchester..

Dorchester == the one area of Boston that I don't go to, and nor should you. Yea yea yea, call me whatever you like. I KNOW I'm 100% safe in Newton, and pretty safe in Back Bay, but Dorchester is where all of the "incidents" on the evening news occur.

[drBill]

Originally Posted by silverking

Besides contact cleaning concerns, the other thing that can cause grief in patchbays is poor grounding schemes.

IMO, the grounding scheme (or lack thereof) is 10X's more likely to cause audio degredation than the build of the bay itself. Buy a switchcraft TT bay and get out that soldering iron!!!

[stevep]

Originally Posted by fondone

I am looking for the worlds best patch bay and I need to know if "sound quality" is even an issue.....

thanks,

Moses and Mitchell patch bays are the worlds best

i have 16 96 point bays and no problems and there around 20 years old

I have owned the ADC / Switchcraft bays and after a few years they had intermittent jacks or normals

i like the solder type

[NowWhat]

Hey, good thread, I had thought about starting it myself a few days ago...

two things:
I believe quality of the bay does impact sound quality. just like crappy cables, try a crappy 1/4" bay vs a real one. Now, is there a difference between two high quality TT bays?? I haven't done an A/B (what a bitch that would be, god damn...) but probably not.

How about DB-25, and the newer switchcraft bays. Seems like a great time and brain saver, but does anybody think sound quality would suffer?? My intuition says proceed with caution...

[steve maglio]

redco sells mogamo tt cables 24" for $10. i got a discount for buying 50+; i think i paid under $9 each a few months ago. so far they are excellent. i am new to gslutz; i don't work for anyone nor do i hawk gear. just some info.

steve maglio

[silverking]

Originally Posted by NowWhat

I believe quality of the bay does impact sound quality. just like crappy cables, try a crappy 1/4" bay vs a real one.

I agree with you completely.

I think if one invests in a quality bay, and does a well thought out installation, there is no impact on audio quality.

BUT....If you install a Tascam 1/4" patch bay, you're probably going to be fighting the quality of the device from the get go, and it will be almost a definite that it's going to negatively affect your audio quality.

[drBill]

I'll give you that the bay "passing" audio correctly is a given and prone to problems with cheaper bays. But if the bay is passing audio.....it's passing audio. No one bay is superior in phase correlation or frequency bandwidth. Keep your bays clean, and well maintained and there's no problem. Spill coffee in them or let them oxidize and you'll have problems. If you buy quality to begin with, you'll mitigate a lot of the issues before you start.

[Selidor]

Speaking of patch bays, I'm thinking about getting a Audio Accessories Mini/TT - DB25, but finding unbiased opinions on a product from a company called Audio Accessories is ridiculously hard. Has anyone any experience with their patch bays, and if so, was it good?

[Mike O]

Originally Posted by Selidor

Speaking of patch bays, I'm thinking about getting a Audio Accessories Mini/TT - DB25, but finding unbiased opinions on a product from a company called Audio Accessories is ridiculously hard. Has anyone any experience with their patch bays, and if so, was it good?

Plenty of info on other threads. Search is your friend. I too am biased, as I have 7 of them. Not a single problem. I became aware of them back when Paul W. from Tonelux showed some pics of Jim Messinna's installation.

I got my AA's from Redco, who has since started making their own I believe. Never touched one of Redco's but I think they are cheaper and I've had great luck with Redco cabling.

If I had the room and less devices to integrate via DB25 I would probably take Steve P.s advice. re: MM.

Like everything else, it just depends on your particular needs....

[dfarness]

I bought a used Audio Accessories TRS patch bay off of Ebay. It was pre-wired with enough cable for most of my installation. All I had to do was add connectors to the other ends of the cables. The bay was only about $70 bucks. It's built like a tank with very solid connections. I've had it for almost a year with no issues.

[robmix]

I have four Audio Accessories bays that are all 12 years old. No problems at all !!!! They're built like tanks !!!!!!

[Selidor]

Thanks a lot for your speedy responses! I think I'll be going with an Audio Accessories patchbay for sure now.

[squidsquad]

Another vote for Mosses and Mitchell. At one of the studios in London I used to freelance at, the in-house tech of many, many years experience wouldn't touch anything else. The patchbays there had been running for years without any complaints. They're not cheap, but well worth the money in my opinion.

[rufus13]

Pre-1970's Telco bays had the option of using precious metal (platinum/palladium) contacts, in addition to the normal excellence of Bell-Spec made by WECo or ADC. Surplus is still out there.

WW is the most reliable connection method ever. Punch-down is 2nd string (but cheap & fast!). Soldering a patchbay is a no-fun, smoke-breathing, insulation-melting, heat-stink-trimming, bad time. Once a bay is done and and patched to a mass-connector, it should never be done again.

Except for double-plug. DP patch bays rule, as long as you have lots of rack space and not too many channels. Phase inversion is a flipped plug- easy.

I can understand TT in a modular synthesizer.

Cheers.

[Aisle 6]

I have tried many patchbays and all the cheaper ones will eventually give an intermittent fault particularly in the normalised switching. Otherwise they get a little dust on the contacts and it causes a higher resistance through the signal path which then changes the tone of the signal.
I have now used old Telco brass barrel long frame bays and they are never a problem and are more resilient to dust and contaminants. Well worth the money.