Oram/Trident 8T-16 Vs. Toft ATB 16

[GYang]

Originally Posted by planet red

3. People who tried it and weren't impressed. Even on the A/B comparison most people chose the Oram board.

I don't understand why everyone gets so defensive about this console. If you love it, great.. but its not for everyone.

I went thorugh extensive summing boxes tests during couple of years (in real studio situation) and shifted toward small console choice search. I would be happy that ATB 32 fulfills my expectations (as it seems that it did to so many fellow gearslutzs). In UK I had several opinions to play with new Oram's board and although Oram is not (and was never) my favorite choice (and I didn't vote with my money) it sounded to my ears definitely better than ATB. Sonically, it was right sound and I was positively surprised.
I didn't like overal quality feel of both consoles (what is understandable and not the point of my criticism at all).
Same functionality, with appropriate built quality and componentry, unfortunately costs way more, but I can't stand compromise on that, as mixing board represent very critical part of the whole process.

[Andrew Kinsey]

Originally Posted by Dirty Halo

No, its a dealer thing.

Which do YOU sell?

-a

Id like to think that we sell the better product out of the two.

Eitherway you sound like you must have an issue!
Is it cause you own an ATB, surely its gotta be more than that.

[Empire Prod]

I preferred the Trident files over the Toft files in every instance.

Does anyone even sell the the Trident in the US?

I have heard very little about it.

[CKK]

Originally Posted by Empire Prod

I preferred the Trident files over the Toft files in every instance.

Does anyone even sell the the Trident in the US?

I have heard very little about it.

Drop John a mail - I'm shure he can help you.

[zoink]

Originally Posted by Empire Prod

I preferred the Trident files over the Toft files in every instance.

same here. .. and i own an ATB. doesn't mean i regret my purchase. halo gotta chill out. no disrespect. it's possible the oram is better on some and many levels, at different tasks. my understanding is that it's also more expensive. i could be wrong. i think both got pros and cons and people vote with their wallet. and for me the toft seems like a great purchase.

i certainly immensely dig the ATB console. it's the perfect tool for the job i need to be done. i just walked in the studio last night with all the lights glowing on the toft. like a christmas tree, it made me feels like christmas.

i think the agro toward trident/oram comes from some of the early days of the toft where some tridents/oram reps/gearpimps started bashing the toft on here without fully disclsing their ties. and that backfired strongly on the Oram crew. the last few posts i've seen from oram crew have been from john himself and they've been nothing but civilized and respectful. we gotta keep the discussion going on that level.

[Dirty Halo]

I'm "chill." So far I've simply pointed out:

1. A dealer pimping the gear he happens to sell on this forum.

2. The maker pimping his gear that he happens to make.

So out of those and my posts, which is more objective? And is that the kind of forum we want here? Just an ad?

-a


P.S. Not for nothing, but I'm able to buy any console. No influence or incentives other than the best outcome.

[Jake Holland]

Could someone post a link to the thread that contains the Toft ATB and Trident 8T audio files that compare the summing and mixing capabilities?

I would really like to hear them for myself and find out for myself what soft of impression I get from them.

Thanks,

Jake

[Dirty Halo]

Originally Posted by NathanEldred

Here is Ciozzi's thread:

Toft ATB vs Trident 8T : audio samples

\\

To the poster's above request, it was already within this thread. Here ya go.

-andrews

[Energie]

Both boards sounded good in their own right. I prefered one or the other for various reasons, all in all I think I preffered the Trident just a tad more if I had to only pick one, but both very usable consoles! I would be happy with the Toft if it were a little cheaper and easier to get here in the states.

[Dirty Halo]

Originally Posted by Energie

Both boards sounded good in their own right. I would be happy with the Toft if it were a little cheaper and easier to get here in the states.

Whoa... how cheap you want it and I think it's as easy as picking up a phone and ordering one? Not sure EVER in history there was this much console at this price.

I'd like a perfect Fairchild 670 with a closet full of 6386 tubes for $10 too

-a

[kbshearer]

Originally Posted by Trident Audio

I thought Ciozzi performed a very fair test. Didn't he?
The bottom line of all this comes down to the signal path that people prefer most. I have used the same circuitry that I created in the 70s to make the Series 80 what is it was, and what it is. Why our competition didn't copy that faithfully I don't know?
Obviously they didn't and thought they were improving it by the changes they made.
You guys have chosen what you prefer as did the thousands who voted for the Trident 8T at the TEC Awards.
Choice is good and much better than no choice.
Of course there could be improvements in everything. We do the best we can with the resources we have at the time.
My Series 80 circuits have proven to be good over the years. Why fix it if it ain't broken?
The market is the best place to decide who does what best.

You guys have ears and you've used them. Thank you.



JOHN ORAM
TRIDENT AUDIO LTD., ENGLAND

Really? In the 8T, you used no surface mount technology? You used TLO72 chips in the EQ and you used 5534's and/or discreet transistors for the output drivers? You used the same or similar topology?

Kirt Shearer
Paradise Studios

[Energie]

Originally Posted by Dirty Halo

Whoa... how cheap you want it and I think it's as easy as picking up a phone and ordering one? Not sure EVER in history there was this much console at this price.

I'd like a perfect Fairchild 670 with a closet full of 6386 tubes for $10 too

-a

Dude you misread my post. I was talking about picking up a toft OVER the trident if it were a little more cheaper and easier to get in the states, which is what this topic has been about, toft or trident.

[Empire Prod]

Originally Posted by Dirty Halo

Not for nothing, but I'm able to buy any console. No influence or incentives other than the best outcome.

And you chose the Toft ATB?

You think it's the best console at any price?

It provides the "BEST" possible outcome?

Is it THAT good?

[Dirty Halo]

Originally Posted by Empire Prod

And you chose the Toft ATB?

You think it's the best console at any price?

It provides the "BEST" possible outcome?

Is it THAT good?

Yep. For what I need it for. Have you tried it?

Sometimes an 8' console with the "N" badge or an SSL isn't what is needed.

(And I do own an SSL)

-a

[Dirty Halo]

Originally Posted by Energie

Dude you misread my post. I was talking about picking up a toft OVER the trident if it were a little more cheaper and easier to get in the states, which is what this topic has been about, toft or trident.

Did I? If so, sorry. It's just that the Toft is less expensive that the oram, isn't it? AND it's available through everyone from Sweetater to Vintage King... so it couldn't be easier to buy.

-a

[Energie]

Originally Posted by Dirty Halo

Did I? If so, sorry. It's just that the Toft is less expensive that the oram, isn't it? AND it's available through everyone from Sweetater to Vintage King... so it couldn't be easier to buy.

-a

That was exaclty my point. That the Toft i believe is cheaper and easier to get in the states. I wasn't saying if only it was.... I was saying I would be happy to have both, but since the toft is a little cheaper and easier to get here, like you said, I would be happy with it. It was more of a statement, rather then a wish. If the trident was the same price and as easy to get as the Toft, then I would pick the Trident, make sence? I probally worded it bad, so my fault. Man, that was a couple of wasted posts of misunderstanding........... back to your regularly scheduled programming

[Dirty Halo]

Use your ears.

If you're smart, take a look under the hood and see what and HOW it is made... the best consoles I've worked on or owned ended up being "worked" on over the years... infer as you will (and what that means in console "build" to do).

Funny how everyone seems to need to proclaim a winner, when by my estimation, back when there was a blind test on the Ciozzi thread, by around post #69 or so, the consensus was, "Eh, personal taste, can't tell the difference enough to say which is really which."

So, back to basics...

1. Use YOUR ears.

2. See what and how the console is made of.

3. Know what YOU want and what you NEED.


The best these forums can do is provide SOME info and user insight, the rest is entertainment.

-a

[Empire Prod]

Originally Posted by Dirty Halo

Yep. For what I need it for. Have you tried it?

Sometimes an 8' console with the "N" badge or an SSL isn't what is needed.

(And I do own an SSL)

So in what ways does the Toft ATB outperform an SSL console?

[Dirty Halo]

Originally Posted by Empire Prod

So in what ways does the Toft ATB outperform an SSL console?

It doesn't outperform my SSL, it is different in the same way my Neve 1073 pres perform differently than my Pacifica.

For example, I like what the Toft's EQ sounds like, that classic "Trident" sound, a VERY different vibe than an E-series EQ. Both good. Both different.

That simple really. You get that, right?

-andrews

[Empire Prod]

Originally Posted by Dirty Halo

It doesn't outperform my SSL, it is different in the same way my Neve 1073 pres perform differently than my Pacifica.

For example, I like what the Toft's EQ sounds like, that classic "Trident" sound, a VERY different vibe than an E-series EQ. Both good. Both different.

That simple really. You get that, right?

-andrews

Cool! You seem to be pretty happy with it.

Are you using it for OTB mixing or just patching channels as outboard for ITB?

[Dirty Halo]

I realized this question has not been answered or if it has, I missed it.

How is it that you had two of these boards to compare?
What is your situation in general, ie. context -- are you an independent studio, a musician, part of a business (if so, what)?

No agenda here on my part, it ust helps me understand the context of your comparison a bit better.

Thank you


-andrews

[ThomasWho]

Originally Posted by Dirty Halo

I realized this question has not been answered or if it has, I missed it.

How is it that you had two of these boards to compare?
What is your situation in general, ie. context -- are you an independent studio, a musician, part of a business (if so, what)?

No agenda here on my part, it ust helps me understand the context of your comparison a bit better.

Thank you


-andrews

He already answered it in the other thread (he owns one of them and was asked to set up a studio that included the other one....)

Thomas

[Dirty Halo]

Originally Posted by ThomasWho

He already answered it in the other thread (he owns one of them and was asked to set up a studio that included the other one....)

Thomas

Thank you!

1. So, did he have them side by side, using the same monitors for himself, the smame convertors, chain, etc or us? (Maybe that was answered)?

2. Did he just have an extra couple grand for the other one or are these two different studios?

3. What IS his company.... studio.... is he a musician... who does he work for or not work for?


I'm really looking for context that I think is not there. I've got a deent sized studio space, but even I don't have the room, time or resources to side by side two consoles (even this size), so the situation seems important to my understanding.

I appreciate context, especially in the internet void.

Personally, tests are hard to believe, so then the CONTEXT of that test is how much value I give it. I appreciate the effort, I jus neet to know the nature of that effort.

Thanks!

-andrews

[The Reel Thing]

Originally Posted by Dirty Halo

..., the rest is entertainment.

-a

why aren't you a trifle entertaining then, for a change?

[dan p]

I own a toft 32 and i am happy with it.The consoles must be fairly close in sound,some prefer one over another.
I track with really good pres and run my stereo bus to a great river anyway to help out the overall sound.I'm sure the 8t sounds good as well,but the bottom line here is the user is the one to make great music with either. Great boards for the $ .

Dan P

[cubehead]

I just bought a ATB 24... Here are the basics

EQ is AMAZINIG

Build quality is mostly great except for a few things.

1/4 inch jacks on back are a little shakey.

Calibration of Groups and VU's are off.

Mic pre's are not great but they work and are a step up from a Mackie.

Summing seems really good. You can't quite push the two buss like you can on a high end console but if you leave a bit of head room it sounds great.

Overall I can't imagine what is out there for under 7 or 8 k that would beat it.

There are quite a few features that I would like that are missing but I am sure that would increase the price quite a bit...

I track through API, Daking and some old Scully pre-amps so for my purposes having a good summing mixer and 24 great EQ's is all I need...

Hope this helps.

[ThomasWho]

Originally Posted by cubehead

I just bought a ATB 24... Here are the basics

Summing seems really good. You can't quite push the two buss like you can on a high end console but if you leave a bit of head room it sounds great.
.

I think you hit the nail on the head.

I haven`t had the chance to try the Toft yet , but I suspect the complaints about "smeared low end" and "soft transients" are mostly from people not using enough headroom.

thanks for you feedback , congrats on your new desk!



Thomas

[delasoul]

hey gang, im hearing alot of this back and forth stuff and i dont wanna get into that so..

i just bought an atb 24! hahaaaaaa.. although i cant say much about those other consoles because this is my first time with a console.. and coming from someone who has always mixed in the box, hearing a mix through this thing is amazing! everything sounds so..... real.. im not used to it but i love it.

there is so much low end definition that i was missing, and where did the high end harshness go?? all im left with is smooooth sexy silky sounding vocals e(with a smooth sexy silky sounding vocalist of course) but the highs are nice.

when i first started using the mic pre's i was a bit scared to turn the gain knob.. for fear that i would start to get noise.. .. because thats what happens when you turn up the gain knob usually. i mean i had the usual mic pre's, i had a manley dual mono mic pre(which was the quietest of them all), api, p-1, focusrite, purple, i could go on.. but i wont. the other day i had a fairly quiet source and it called for me to turn that knob the way it was meant to be turned. so i held my breath and closed my eyes and turned it to realize that... omg... omg.. i could turn this thing all day... and and.. it would only give me more.. just.. more.. more of what im hearing, but i could also sort of hear into the voice of what im hearing. maybe thats just the way analog consoles sound.. cuz it doesnt sound like that in the box. anyway, it felt good to know that these mic pre's were just as good, if not better, than the mic pre's i had to sell to buy this thing.

these eq's are somethin to get used to.. im really used to digital eqs where i usually have more than 4 bands and each one i can dip anywhere and adjust the q. i like to cut.. i cut all day. don't get me wrong they destroy digital eq's as far as sound goes, i just have to make wiser decisions about where to cut and where to boost.

ok time to gripe.
where the hell are the meters? all i got are... -20 and +10 on the channel (theres only two lights at negative 20 and plus 10 for those who dont know). hmmm.. i dont know when i would ever hit that +10 red light. and i guess that -20 is just there to tell me that somethin is goin on at that channel. im just saying maybe there could have been a better choice of range.. like.. -10 and +3 maybe...

i suppose it doesnt matter as long as i can put giant meters in nuendo for input and output.

the only other thing i can think of right now isss..... the master fader... oohh she's kinda noisy when you turn her up.. but it really doesnt come into play when your mixing because i usually end up leaving it around -10 to -15.

the only thing i dont quite understand and if someone can please help me with this.. and im so embarrased to ask this for fear that this is such a dumb question..
but, how do i use the monitor knobs. i know what theyre there for.. and where they route i think.. but.. i dont get it. do i use the input reverse when im tracking.. and the monitor knobs go to the master fader? or..

cuz the direct output is post eq, post fader, i understand, that goes to nuendo.. the aux sends go to the person recording which would be a different mix for them.. and the monitor knobs are supposed to be the mix for me.. but am i supposed to connect my speakers to the monitor output everytime i track, and then reconnect the speakers to the main speaker output for mixing? wouldnt that defeat the purpose of having a console?

help..

dam, that was long... enjoy reading!

[camus]

the only other thing i can think of right now isss..... the master fader... oohh she's kinda noisy when you turn her up.. but it really doesnt come into play when your mixing because i usually end up leaving it around -10 to -15.

That's not a very good idea. To maintain proper gainstaging, your master fader should be at unity or therabouts if you are recording the final mix off the stereo buss. What kind of noise are you talking about? Is it still there when your master fader is up and all channels are off?

[delasoul]

hmmm.. really? thats not the way i was taught in school.. i tought my channel faders should be at unity..