Console Question? Allen and Heath or Toft ATB 24

[Superdan138]

I currently own an Allen and Heath System 8 MKIII 16 ch console. Buttttt.....this new Toft ATB Boards look like it could be a contender for a replacement, anyone have any thoughts on if this would be a smart move? Btw I have read all of the Toft threads on here.

-Dan

[drBill]

Originally Posted by Superdan138

Btw I have read all of the Toft threads on here.
-Dan

And you still have questions???

Then I think it's time you go and listen to one for yourself, eh??

[herecomesyourman]

Toft... it's just solid man.

[alexp]

I have an A&H system 8 and well, and I must say I love it. Be interesting to compare the 2 boards.

[Superdan138]

I was thinking the Toft was amazing, but I really like the System 8 on drums and just about everything about it, except the EQ. I think the EQ limits me a lot. It also sounds very warm and full which is nice to have. I was sooo intrigued by the 4 band wonderful EQ everyone talks about on the Toft. Also is the Toft really made in China? I couldnt justify paying that much money for a board that is made in China.

-Dan

[Grizzly]

Originally Posted by Superdan138

I was thinking the Toft was amazing, but I really like the System 8 on drums and just about everything about it, except the EQ. I think the EQ limits me a lot. It also sounds very warm and full which is nice to have. I was sooo intrigued by the 4 band wonderful EQ everyone talks about on the Toft. Also is the Toft really made in China? I couldnt justify paying that much money for a board that is made in China.

-Dan

That much money ???... It's the cheapest board of its league ever !!!...

[Larrysings]

Originally Posted by Superdan138

I was thinking the Toft was amazing, but I really like the System 8 on drums and just about everything about it, except the EQ. I think the EQ limits me a lot. It also sounds very warm and full which is nice to have. I was sooo intrigued by the 4 band wonderful EQ everyone talks about on the Toft. Also is the Toft really made in China? I couldnt justify paying that much money for a board that is made in China.

-Dan

Actually China is part of the world of human inhabitants as we know it. There are many factories there with intelligent people working in them. Its made right down the block from the Ipod factory--from what I hear. Even considering the weakness of the dollar, the ATB if made here would cost $20k-$30k. This is where cheap "skilled" labor works for us.

[Ozzy]

Originally Posted by Superdan138

Also is the Toft really made in China? I couldnt justify paying that much money for a board that is made in China.

-Dan

Then you have your answer

I echo other posters comments about going and checking one out for your self. See if any studios/ppl local to you have one.

Good luck.
Oz

[andygomez]

I wouldnt back out on a good board just because it was made in China. Malcom Toft is a respected designer.. Its not like it was designed by Behringer

[Dirty Halo]

I was fortunate enough to be in a position to purchase boards at MUCh higher price points...

After a lot of research, reading all these post and other info AND considering factors like sound quality, maintance, etc.

My voting dollar went to the Toft ATB


-andrews

[blaugruen7]

the faders are not automateable.
how do you integrate this into your mixing?

[Daedalus77]

I think, regarding mixing, that most folks are using it with faders at unity, doing automation in the DAW before stemming out.

[Dirty Halo]

Originally Posted by Daedalus77

I think, regarding mixing, that most folks are using it with faders at unity, doing automation in the DAW before stemming out.

Yepper... let the board do the EQ, summing, FX sends and returns (although, I combine the hardware with plugs too) and then all automation is in Pro Tools.

That's the newest plan, anyway.

[blaugruen7]

...and then no use of outboard compressors, right?

[alexp]

I use mine for mixing. I run all my stuff into the daw with faders at unity, then assign 16 stems to the console on mixdown, mix with the faders, use the outboard compressors and other effects, and then mix it down to a hd recorder. Then its back into to wavelab as a .wav file for mastering.

Simple, easy, and the best of both analogue and digital worlds.

Alex

[Dave Peck]

Originally Posted by blaugruen7

...and then no use of outboard compressors, right?

Sure you can use outboard compressors. The channel inserts, group inserts, and L/R main inserts are all prefader, so fader moves don't affect compressor behavior. Same as most consoles.

[Dirty Halo]

It's back to basics really.

PTHD is becoming more the tape machine, with the added bonus of great editing and then some good plugs to plus good hardware or augment.

Everything else is hardware, including inserted compressors on various channels, as well as on 8-buss groups and master 2-buss insert.

-andrews

[Superdan138]

Originally Posted by andygomez

I wouldnt back out on a good board just because it was made in China. Malcom Toft is a respected designer.. Its not like it was designed by Behringer

Not the design Im worrried about. I have a great example of what put me off of China made products for good. I bought an Allen and Heath Xone 92 mixer that was made in China and it was totally garbage. The paint looked cheap, the buttons all jiggled.....it was just crap. My friends 92 was made in UK and was amazing, that was the reason I wanted one for DJing. So I returned it and found a store online that had one left on sale and that was made in UK. After receiving that.....I melted into butter soup. It was sooo well made and just felt like a mixer that was worth every penny. The other one shoud have been thrown out the window....I was that close to doing that. I am a stickler for quality and I think you guys are right, I NEED to go out and find an ATB in person to physically molest and let it molest me to become a true Gearslut!!!!

-Dan

[DSMrehearsal]

Have not tried the ATB, but had Mr toft demo the board a few years back at olympia - I was wasted , so my opinion is null and void, on a personal note I am not a fan of Allen&Heath eq . would rather use an old vlz mackie eq wise

[alanhyatt]

Originally Posted by Superdan138

Not the design Im worrried about. I have a great example of what put me off of China made products for good. I bought an Allen and Heath Xone 92 mixer that was made in China and it was totally garbage. The paint looked cheap, the buttons all jiggled.....it was just crap. My friends 92 was made in UK and was amazing, that was the reason I wanted one for DJing. So I returned it and found a store online that had one left on sale and that was made in UK. After receiving that.....I melted into butter soup. It was sooo well made and just felt like a mixer that was worth every penny. The other one shoud have been thrown out the window....I was that close to doing that. I am a stickler for quality and I think you guys are right, I NEED to go out and find an ATB in person to physically molest and let it molest me to become a true Gearslut!!!!

-Dan

Dan, that is most likely the design of the console and not the build quality. If you design a console with plastic pots and knobs, they will wiggle. If you use inexpensive paint or cheap wood, it will not look good. One of our competitors builds in the UK, and perhaps it is even Poland, but the reason it is what it is is because of the way it is designed....

We take a lot of time and spend a lot of effort in our design. That is why we use metal pots, aluminum knobs, individual modules and through hole assembly. The design is solid, so the assembly of the design is easy to do.... Get your hands on our ATB and you will understand what I am talking about....If we can help that happen, let me know.

[pianodano]

Originally Posted by Superdan138

I currently own an Allen and Heath System 8 MKIII 16 ch console. Buttttt.....this new Toft ATB Boards look like it could be a contender for a replacement, anyone have any thoughts on if this would be a smart move? Btw I have read all of the Toft threads on here.

-Dan

I have used both. Replace the System 8 would be my recommendation. The system 8 came out somewhere around 85. It was a nice, economical mixer for the time and we could work with the eq at the time. But the Toft is in a different class altogether.

[drBill]

Originally Posted by andygomez

Its not like it was designed by Behringer

Hey, hey, heeeeeyyy. Behringer has good designs. They know enough to steal from decent designers.

[drBill]

Originally Posted by Dave Peck

Sure you can use outboard compressors. The channel inserts, group inserts, and L/R main inserts are all prefader, so fader moves don't affect compressor behavior. Same as most consoles.

Yeah, but they are POST Pro Tools faders. Automating in PT or your DAW of choice will preclude you from inserting a compressor/limiter on the console channel insert. Unless of course you aren't changing the mix levels to that channel coming out of PT/DAW. Well, in all fairness, you CAN change the levels, but it will change your compression as well. Not the optimum.