2 Buss comp - Do you mix into it or add it at the end of the mix?

[dokushoka]

I do EVERYTHING with it on all the time, including my MONITOR mix while tracking...

[stevetgn]

Originally Posted by dokushoka

I do EVERYTHING with it on all the time, including my MONITOR mix while tracking...

oooh don't like the idea of doing that myself, not while monitoring a tracking session.

[stevetgn]

Interestingly, the poll is still very one sided but it has started to swing the otherway.

[dokushoka]

Originally Posted by stevetgn

oooh don't like the idea of doing that myself, not while monitoring a tracking session.

Why not? I know I'm going to be mixing through it, so I want to monitor as close to what my mix set up will be. That way I can make appropriate decisions. Its works extremely well for me. I also NEVER track with compression on anything except a touch on vocals.

[theRog]

Always use an SSL G Series comp during mixing...

cheerio
Roger

[stevetgn]

Originally Posted by dokushoka

Why not? I know I'm going to be mixing through it, so I want to monitor as close to what my mix set up will be. That way I can make appropriate decisions. Its works extremely well for me. I also NEVER track with compression on anything except a touch on vocals.

Because you're not hearing exactly what you are capturing. Surly this can't be good?

[dokushoka]

Originally Posted by stevetgn

Because you're not hearing exactly what you are capturing. Surly this can't be good?

I'm hearing it as I will be come mix time which is really what counts.

[stevetgn]

Originally Posted by dokushoka

I'm hearing it as I will be come mix time which is really what counts.

Nah, surly not. The way your mix buss comp reacts to the dynamics of a single voice or instrument you are monitoring will be very different from how it will react to the mix as a whole. I would have thought you'd be getting a false impression of what you are recording. But hey, I could be wrong... its happened before I'm sure it will happen again

[jho]

Originally Posted by peeder

I know some people will cringe but it's fairly standard and not too bad an idea in moderation--limiters such as the L2007

Yes, I'm cringing.

Mixing into a limiter is a bad idea.

(to quote you--"sounds like mastering in my terminology")

[u b k]

if mixing into a limiter works for someone, or tracking with a mix compressor works for someone, i say more power to 'em.

ain't no rules.


gregoire
del
ubk
.

[jho]

Originally Posted by u b k

if mixing into a limiter works for someone, i say more power to 'em.

ain't no rules.


gregoire
del
ubk
.

Yeah no rules. Do whatever you want. It's your music. Purely subjective. And all that happy horse@#$. I still think it's a bad idea. No rules in regards to my opinion either, fair enough?

I think if we're trying to help people on this forum it's probably not a great idea to lead them down a path that in most professional mixers and mastering engineer's opinion is a bad idea. I at least would think so.

But if we want to help him reinvent the wheel or spend hours chasing his tail, then sure, no rules whatsoever. Put as many plugs on the 2-buss as you can think of. Try 2 limiters followed by an expander. Whatever works for you.

Oh, and good luck with that....Jeezz...

[Jalabodu]

Which would you choose?

Would you mix into a compressor that really wasn't designed for the 2-buss, or if that's all you have, would you skip it altogether.

For instance, I have a Crane Song Trakker and I intend on getting another one for stereo tracking. Would it do a decent job on the 2-buss or should I stay out of it?

Thanks in advance.

[jho]

Originally Posted by Jalabodu

Which would you choose?

Would you mix into a compressor that really wasn't designed for the 2-buss, or if that's all you have, would you skip it altogether.

For instance, I have a Crane Song Trakker and I intend on getting another one for stereo tracking. Would it do a decent job on the 2-buss or should I stay out of it?

Thanks in advance.

Trakkers are great on the 2-buss. Try 'em and see.

Bob Katz actually uses them in his stereo mastering chain.

I would NOT recommend mixing into a limiter tho! Probably just me tho LOL

[tritone]

One man's opinion, in my small project shop - but I'm REALLY enjoying my pair of trakkers on the 2-buss. I don't lose high end (with my usual parameter settings), I aim for max 3-4 dB GR on the peaks, and it's a big help

RC

[Jalabodu]

Thanks, I'll do some more digging. In the mean time if anyone wants to send me the second Trakker for Christmas, I'd be forever grateful

[Drumsound]

Originally Posted by dokushoka

I do EVERYTHING with it on all the time, including my MONITOR mix while tracking...

I've heard of a few folks who do this. Someday I'm gonna try it. I often use my 2-mix comp in tracking though...

Originally Posted by stevetgn

oooh don't like the idea of doing that myself, not while monitoring a tracking session.

Originally Posted by stevetgn

Because you're not hearing exactly what you are capturing. Surly this can't be good?

He's hearing the end result earlier.

Originally Posted by dokushoka

I'm hearing it as I will be come mix time which is really what counts.

Originally Posted by stevetgn

Nah, surly not. The way your mix buss comp reacts to the dynamics of a single voice or instrument you are monitoring will be very different from how it will react to the mix as a whole. I would have thought you'd be getting a false impression of what you are recording. But hey, I could be wrong... its happened before I'm sure it will happen again

Solo is bad...

Originally Posted by jho

Yes, I'm cringing.

Mixing into a limiter is a bad idea.

(to quote you--"sounds like mastering in my terminology")

I think you're getting bogged down by semantics. A lot of folks use compressor and limiter interchangeably.

[u b k]

Originally Posted by jho

I think if we're trying to help people on this forum it's probably not a great idea to lead them down a path that in most professional mixers and mastering engineer's opinion is a bad idea.

from my perspective, if your goal is to truly help a person, the only thing that matters is finding what actually works for that person. to that end, getting insight and feedback from peers can be helpful, but at the end of the day the proof is in the pudding.

fwiw, this guy didn't ask for anyone's help. in any case, i actually think that going down ill-advised paths is fantastic way to live a life, especially if your goal is to carve something unique.


gregoire
del
ubk
.

[futur2]

i know this is a very "it depends blah" question but i'm sure a lot of you nearly always use more or less the same settings for mixing into the bus comp. so which setting on which comp on what song/style/genre are your starting points?

[futur2]

ok maybe this question is too stupid or too vague but i give it a bump nonetheless. what ratios, what attack and release settings, for how many db's are you shooting? when/what? interested in your settings on the most common bus comps, smart, ssl, api...

since i've never done it that way the most interesting thing for me is how do you know what's best before? i guess by experience...

Originally Posted by futur2

i know this is a very "it depends blah" question but i'm sure a lot of you nearly always use more or less the same settings for mixing into the bus comp. so which setting on which comp on what song/style/genre are your starting points?

[stevetgn]

Originally Posted by futur2

ok maybe this question is too stupid or too vague but i give it a bump nonetheless. what ratios, what attack and release settings, for how many db's are you shooting? when/what? interested in your settings on the most common bus comps, smart, ssl, api...

since i've never done it that way the most interesting thing for me is how do you know what's best before? i guess by experience...

For your average rock track (if such a thing exsits!) on my C2:

Ratio 4:1 or 3:1
Attack all the way slow
Release All the way fast or Auto
Threshold set for no more than 2 to 3dB GR
Feed the external S/C from a channel on the desk with 100HPF and a 6dB cut on the Lo shelf

[futur2]

thanks, that's a nice start

Originally Posted by stevetgn

For your average rock track (if such a thing exsits!) on my C2:

Ratio 4:1 or 3:1
Attack all the way slow
Release All the way fast or Auto
Threshold set for no more than 2 to 3dB GR
Feed the external S/C from a channel on the desk with 100HPF and a 6dB cut on the Lo shelf

[TheBlade]

Originally Posted by lord_bunny

Many have read the Andy Wallace interview where he talks about going to the loudest part of the track, getting that cooking, and from there putting on the bus compressor... and that's generally how I've worked for the last few years.

I find the better I mix, the louder the mixes seem to be getting without a lot of bus compression. Maybe I'm doing 2db reduction at 2:1... plus using the UA Maximizer.

I spent 3 weeks with Andy Wallace while he mixed a CD of my old band.
If was very informative and I learned alot!
(This was done in 93, right after he mixed Nirvana, Helmut, and Shudder to Think)

I use his tactics as I love the way his mixes pump.

Back then, he would use a 4:1 compression ratio on the SSL in auto mode and the kick and snare set the threshold. There would be no more than -4 reduction on the meter.
I read later that he was compressing harder....more at -6.

He would use it from the start in getting the drums with samples pounding, then he would start working the bass and guitars in. He generally only used individual compression (SSL) on the bass and vocals, and very lightly, just for control.

The two buss and his ears are where the magic is in his work!

[edvdr76]

I turn it on during the mix but only listen through it for a bit just to check how its sounding.......then almost at the end I just leave it on.

[Jim Williams]

If it's done, it's after mixing, not before. Otherwise the compressor mixes everything in it's way which may not be the best way.

Then again, I suppose I could just shove all the faders to 0 and patch in the compressor so it would do the mix for me. Mixing into a stereo compressor is like trying to push down a ping pong ball floating on water with you thumb. It just keeps rolling off back to the top. You push it down, the compressor keeps pushing it back up. That can get insane quickly.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

[futur2]

interesting opinion (no pun) concerning the poll results! in some way that's something i always thought but i just have to try the mixing into now.

Originally Posted by Jim Williams

If it's done, it's after mixing, not before. Otherwise the compressor mixes everything in it's way which may not be the best way.

Then again, I suppose I could just shove all the faders to 0 and patch in the compressor so it would do the mix for me. Mixing into a stereo compressor is like trying to push down a ping pong ball floating on water with you thumb. It just keeps rolling off back to the top. You push it down, the compressor keeps pushing it back up. That can get insane quickly.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades