API A2D for summing?

[Honest Abe]

I'm using a rme d/a's to come into my dangerous mixer and back into the fireface in stereo. I just bought an API A2D and wanted to use it after my Dangerous mixer to come back into the digital inputs of the Fireface. I realize that my mixer is line level out and the A2D only has unbalanced line level inputs on the front. Is this my best bet or am I better off just geting a Folcrom passive mixer and then making up the gain through the mic pres. What about coming into the mic pre's and the padding the input? Anybody with experience with this? I bought this piece to do double duty as a mic pre and also add color to my summing setup.

[gregohb]

I don't think summing is extremely effective since you only have two channels (L/R) with the A2D. However, I have found that you can put the pad in, and the 2x option, and crank it, and it gives a nicer thicker sound. Its subtle but in blind listening tests, it always sounds better (on voice and guitar at least).

[ulysses]

If you're going to feed it from the Dangerous, then yes you'll want to use the unbalanced line-level inputs. The Folcrom is the only summing box that wants to be fed into mike preamp inputs. If you can get your hands on a Folcrom, it would make for an interesting comparison: Dangerous into the line inputs of the A2D vs. Folcrom into the mike inputs. I haven't used the A2D, so I don't know how much "API sound" you get from the line inputs, if any. So the difference in this comparison may be the difference between Dangerous gain and API gain. But hey, that's exactly what the Folcrom is all about - different flavors of makeup gain.

[TonyBelmont]

Originally Posted by Honest Abe

I'm using a rme d/a's to come into my dangerous mixer and back into the fireface in stereo. I just bought an API A2D and wanted to use it after my Dangerous mixer to come back into the digital inputs of the Fireface. I realize that my mixer is line level out and the A2D only has unbalanced line level inputs on the front. Is this my best bet or am I better off just geting a Folcrom passive mixer and then making up the gain through the mic pres. What about coming into the mic pre's and the padding the input? Anybody with experience with this? I bought this piece to do double duty as a mic pre and also add color to my summing setup.

The A2D has balanced line inputs that will allow you to bypass the preamp stage on the back. It's called the A to D input... You can see a picture and explanation on my site: A2D

This is how I would hook up the Dangerous.

[Honest Abe]

Thanks for all of your replies. I am going out on 8 stereo stems (maybe I wasn't clear). By the way, Tony, wouldn't I bypass "the API sound" if I just go into the converters directly? And if this is the best way, would I just be better off going back into the RME A/D converters which like I am doing now?

[obscure object]

Originally Posted by TonyBelmont

The A2D has balanced line inputs that will allow you to bypass the preamp stage on the back. It's called the A to D input... You can see a picture and explanation on my site: A2D

This is how I would hook up the Dangerous.

But He will not be getting any API sound with that, will he? Only benefit is to use the API converters (in case they're better than RME's)

[Honest Abe]

That's what I would guess. My whole point was to get some sort of color. Maybe the Folcrom is the best way to go?

[Honest Abe]

Thanks for chiming in Justin. I understand you're the creator of the Folcrom. Fine piece from what I hear. I've just been thinking of how to get a little more character out of my mixes. Don't get me wrong. I think I'm doing fine with the Dangerous alone and a lot of color plugins, but I still wonder if the Folcrom and a color preamp will give me that little somthin, somthin that I'm craving. I'm mixing mostly Rock by the way. Not asking for a lot. Makes me think I might be able to buy one pretty cheap in the used market and then just keep the piece that ends up doing it for me.

[TonyBelmont]

Originally Posted by obscure object

But He will not be getting any API sound with that, will he? Only benefit is to use the API converters (in case they're better than RME's)

That's not necessarily true.. The API A2D converter actually uses API 2510 op amps in the signal path and has a slight color to it (though nothing like the mic input of the A2D with it's transformers and 2520's). If he goes into the front input of the A2D, he will be bypassing the input transformer anyway... I would say try both and see which you prefer.

The Folcrom would have been a better way to go...

But since you already have the Dangerous, I could have my tech make you a passive 2 channel device that will drop the stereo output of the Dangerous down to a mic level and give you the proper impedance... Probably cost about $80-100. This would be the easiest way to do what you are asking without replacing the Dangerous.

[Honest Abe]

Thanks for the insight, Tony. The passive device you speak of sounds like a good option if it doesn't degrade the sound in any way. Does it? If so then maybe selling my Dangerous and buying the Folcrom is still the best way to go from what I've gathered in this very informative post. Could leave me some pocket change too!

[TonyBelmont]

Originally Posted by Honest Abe

Thanks for the insight, Tony. The passive device you speak of sounds like a good option if it doesn't degrade the sound in any way. Does it? If so then maybe selling my Dangerous and buying the Folcrom is still the best way to go from what I've gathered in this very informative post.

It wouldn't degrade the sound... It's actually the only way to do what you want with your existing setup without degrading the sound.

[Slaytex]

Wouldn't getting Shure in-line pads do the same thing as a passive box or would there be impedence issues going into the mic inputs of the API?
Thanks.

[obscure object]

Originally Posted by TonyBelmont

But since you already have the Dangerous, I could have my tech make you a passive 2 channel device that will drop the stereo output of the Dangerous down to a mic level and give you the proper impedance... Probably cost about $80-100. This would be the easiest way to do what you are asking without replacing the Dangerous.

Tony, are there any products out there that can do that job off the shelf? ... sounds like a kind of 're-amping', just for mic preamps instead of instrument amps. I don't want to use pads. I'm worried about impedance mis-matching as well.

[redroom]

Use something like an Atty passsive volume control out of the dangerous into the API

[TheSweetener]

I thought it was possible to feed the front TRS input (at least of the 3124+) with an unbalanced line signal. (pad engaged of course)

I don't know if that has "the API sound".

[Slaytex]

Originally Posted by TheSweetener

I thought it was possible to feed the front TRS input (at least of the 3124+) with an unbalanced line signal. (pad engaged of course)

I don't know if that has "the API sound".

But then you bypass the input opamps that are on the mic in's (less color).

[TonyBelmont]

Originally Posted by obscure object

Tony, are there any products out there that can do that job off the shelf? ... sounds like a kind of 're-amping', just for mic preamps instead of instrument amps. I don't want to use pads. I'm worried about impedance mis-matching as well.

Not that I know of... The problem with all the other units I've seen is the impedance.

[Andrew Kinsey]

To turn a line level signal into a mic signal is pretty easy. You can modify your existing cables by soldering some 10k resistors on one end between the cable tips and the XLR connector terminals.

Its quite similar to the way the Folcrom works infact.

[Honest Abe]

Can you be a little more specific, Andrew? Do you solder the resistors to the +, -, and the grnd? What quality of resistors should I try(brand)?

[Andrew Kinsey]

Originally Posted by Honest Abe

Can you be a little more specific, Andrew? Do you solder the resistors to the +, -, and the grnd? What quality of resistors should I try(brand)?

You need Metal Film resistors @ 10K 1% 0.25W - Brand does not matter
MF25 10K | MULTICOMP | Resistors, Thermistors & Potentiometers | Passive Components | Farnell

You need to solder the resistors to the + & -, i dont think the ground matters however i could be wrong.

PS- Use a multi-meter to measure the resistors before soldering, you ideally want to match the exact resistance across both left and right channels.

[Faderjockey]

I love my Folcrom... I'd like to hear your thoughts if you get around to testing out a Folcrom with the API...

[mejon]

I have both the A2D and the Folcrom, and have just begun mixing OTB with them, with very favorable results...