RCA BK5A vs RCA BK5B

[bxt403]

I recently purchased a mic through Ekkeharts' located in California. Their site listed it as a RCA BK5A, but when I got it had a contemporary RCA logo, rather than the "AEA" type. It is a BK5B, but I don't know what the differences are. All I could gather from the net is that one or both of them is impervious to gunshots. My guess, since it was around in the time of the western, is that the BK5 was used in places a shotgun mic is used for productions today. I wonder if that's a link to why shotgun mics are called that. I guess the air from a gunshot would often destroy the ribbon, so they added an improvement in the design for one or both the BK5's. I'd appreciate any help regarding the acoustic properties of both mics- differences, similarites, etc.

[PlugHead]

FWIW,

Both of these mics were used often on location for film sets: the SPL the ribbon mics could handle, as well as having a fig 8 pattern could keep audio bleed from the set away from the mics (when positioned properly) and the recording.

One of the differences was the extra shielding in the b model to keep the wind/pressure blasts away from the ribbon element when capturing gun shots, thus the quote you referenced on their differences...

Nice mic - try it on elec gtr and horns then come back with your evaluation...

[druhms]

I don't know the answer to your question, but I would be careful calling them "bulletproof". They're tough, but they are still ribbons. Try them on loud gtr's and smile.
Druhms

[mr scratchy esq]

I have a BK5-A and like it a lot on vocals and electric guitars. It is a cardioid only pattern mic though, not a fig. 8 like a 77 or 44.

[soupking]

I have a 5a and a 5b with a windscreen.

It sound amazing on kick with the screen.

The difference, the only I can tell is that the mounting pegs are different. The 5b seems fitted to attached a windscreen. The 5a needs coersion using a pair of pliers to get the wind screen to slide on properly. That's the only thing I can really determine though.

[bxt403]

Originally Posted by druhms

I don't know the answer to your question, but I would be careful calling them "bulletproof". They're tough, but they are still ribbons. Try them on loud gtr's and smile.
Druhms

Never did...it's the air from the gun blast that destroys the ribbon on most ribbon mics, ie: the bk5 is "impervious to gunshots".

Bullets would destroy all microphones (if not all the components), unless there is such a thing as a bulletproof mic.


How much distance would be good to put between the BK5 and a rock/metal amp like an overdriven Marshall JCM- or a Mesa-Boogie Triple Rectifier?
I'd think the physics of the air flow of a gunshot would be similar to that of micing a distorted amp close- but since the BK5 still is a ribbon would I give myself a few feet of safety distance, or would a few inches suffice?

Thanks to everyone for sharing what they know.

[PlugHead]

Originally Posted by infested3d

How much distance would be good to put between the BK5 and a rock/metal amp like an overdriven Marshall JCM- or a Mesa-Boogie Triple Rectifier?

Thanks to everyone for sharing what they know.

I wouldn't be as bold to put it up against the grill, but I think you could get away with placing it back a couple of inches.

These things are made to take SPL. The only thing that is a real danger is wind blasts. If you're concerned about damaging it, put a pop screen between it and the cab for safety. There's more chance of damaging the ribbon from plugging in/unplugging with the amp powered up, possibly making the cone bounce/move air...

I wouldn't be so scared tho - they are made for this type of abuse. So long as the protective screen inside the mic shell is intact and not deteriorated, I'd shove this mic where the sun don't shine...

best,

[chris319]

"Shotgun" mics are called that due to their form factor: long and tubular. One of the earliest such mics was the Electro Voice 642:

******//www.k-bay106.com/e-v_642.jpg

which was used on mic booms in many a television studio.

[tone delux]

i remember an old engineer telling me that the BK5 could withstand the noise from a gun. never tried it.

[muzykant]

Originally Posted by tone delux

i remember an old engineer telling me that the BK5 could withstand the noise from a gun. never tried it.

The BK-5x were ruggedized and could be used where no other ribbon mic could. This made it desirable for location work in film and TV.

RCA Type BK-5A and BK-5B gives more data, but here's one quote: "In laboratory tests, it was possible to fire .38 caliber blanks as close as three feet from the micro­phone and .32 caliber blanks as close as one and one-half feet without any measurable effect on the performance. The tests were made with the gun fired at right angles to the micro­phone and directly in front of it."

Richard,
Atlanta, Georgia

[Xestenz]

I've got a BK-5B that my dad inherited from his old days at KFRC 610 in SF. They used it as an 'on air' mic and in their cutting studio.

Had it refurbished and re-ribboned by Silvia Classics out of Santa Cruz.

I've used it on everything from guitar cabs to bass drums, with nice results and no ill effects. The best 'secret use' I've found for this mike is as a drum overhead. Great resolution of the entire kit and cymbals as smooth as silk.

If you have questions about these mics reach out to Jerry Silvia at Silvia Classics: Microphone Design, Manufacturing, Restoration, and Ribbon Repair. Very knowledgable and friendly too.

[anguswoodhead]

Hi guys
I've just bought a 5A and a 5B.
Just searching around looking for info on them and stumbled across this thread.
Anyone know the years of manf for the 2 models.

My understanding is that the BK-5A has a response from 50 to 15,000
Whereas the BK-5B is good for 30 to 20,000.

This looks cool - Silvia Classics: SC-5C Uniaxial Cardioid Ribbon Microphone

In Australia we have Gunter Wagner, Rob Squire and Ben Sneesby so I have taken a punt on Ben and sent him the pair to 're-furb'.
There may be other guys but as far as I'm concerned these are the 'Big 3'.

[Sigma]

Originally Posted by anguswoodhead

Hi guys
I've just bought a 5A and a 5B.
Just searching around looking for info on them and stumbled across this thread.
Anyone know the years of manf for the 2 models.

My understanding is that the BK-5A has a response from 50 to 15,000
Whereas the BK-5B is good for 30 to 20,000.

This looks cool - Silvia Classics: SC-5C Uniaxial Cardioid Ribbon Microphone

In Australia we have Gunter Wagner, Rob Squire and Ben Sneesby so I have taken a punt on Ben and sent him the pair to 're-furb'.
There may be other guys but as far as I'm concerned these are the 'Big 3'.

spot on! ..but i'd add Clarence Kane who worked at RCA and has some of their original test and repair equipment

the mic is great on kick drums and guitars

[kooz]

I should really check where the impedance is set on my 2 BK5a's...thanks for the brain poke!

For those who may be trying to follow muzykant's (broken) link: RCA Type BK-5A and BK-5B

[rjacobsen]

Here's a link to extensive info on the 2 mics.

RCA Type BK-5A and BK-5B

rjacobsen

[EV676]

Interesting information. I started my career in radio and the first 3 small town stations I worked at had BK-5's as their on air microphones. This was in the early 1970's.

The Catholic Church where I was married 30+ years ago (in Texas) for years had 3 BK5's, one on the altar and the other two on the lecterns.

I wish I knew what became of those microphones!

[anguswoodhead]

yep - some good info there.
Still wondering what the dates of manf. were for the 2 models (A & B).

[littlesicily]

Not so bad on vocals... Sinatra & Fitzgerald

[corky]

The 5A came out in 1955. I believe the 5B was either the same year or the following year.

Steve Sank is the go-to guy in America for RCA ribbon mics. His dad designed several of them back in the day, and Steve has many NOS ribbons available. He just re-did my BK-11 (which I just listed on Ebay today).

[bxt403]

Wow...there's so many stories and info after three years- thanks to everyone for sharing!




Doesn't Steve Sank also mod Behringer preamps?

[Fletcher]

Originally Posted by bxt403

How much distance would be good to put between the BK5 and a rock/metal amp like an overdriven Marshall JCM- or a Mesa-Boogie Triple Rectifier?
I'd think the physics of the air flow of a gunshot would be similar to that of micing a distorted amp close- but since the BK5 still is a ribbon would I give myself a few feet of safety distance, or would a few inches suffice?

I've jammed them into the grill with zero problems - ever. I've used them a few inches off, no zero problems, and I've used them a few feet back, zero problems. Put the mic where you need it to be placed to get the tone you're trying to capture. Its a tool, not a Picasso.

Originally Posted by corky

Steve Sank is the go-to guy in America for RCA ribbon mics. His dad designed several of them back in the day, and Steve has many NOS ribbons available. He just re-did my BK-11 (which I just listed on Ebay today).

Apart from your obvious commercial motive for saying that Sank is the "go to" guy, I [from personal experience] heartily disagree.

As "Sigma" mentioned, Clarence Kane of ENAK Microphone Repair [in Pittman, NJ] worked at RCA back in the day, and I dare say has done impeccable work on a plethora of RCA microphones I have sent to him over the last couple of decades. Some were mine, others belong to various clients of a friend of mine who runs a tech shop in Tokyo. Twice a year he would send a bulk package [10-12 mics] that we shipped down to ENAK for repair... every one of them came back sounding as good as any of these things can possibly sound.

On the west coast, Wes Dooley of AEA [Audio Engineering Associates; Pasadena, CA] has [in my opinion, YMMV] considerably more experience with ribbon microphones of all sorts, shapes and sizes.

My father used to work on airplane engines... he passed a lot of that knowledge on to me as well as more than a few tools, but not all. If you'd like me to work on the engine of your plane, please give me a shout -- I'll be happy to give it a once over. I wouldn't if I had a plane, but hey -- my dad used to work on them professionally... so I have the "lineage credentials"... no?

[corky]

As "Sigma" mentioned, Clarence Kane of ENAK Microphone Repair [in Pittman, NJ] worked at RCA back in the day, and I dare say has done impeccable work on a plethora of RCA microphones I have sent to him over the last couple of decades.

Apart from your obvious commercial motive for saying that Kane does better work than Sank, I heartily disagree. But you let me know when he's been quoted from in as many articles, or when his own microphone designs have recieved as many rave reviews as Sank's Cloud mics have.

And having merely worked for RCA is obviously not the same as having been in charge of actual micrphone design like Sank's father was. Oh, and then there's the fact that Steve has a ton of NOS ribbons and other original RCA mic parts that no one else does. But hey, you can just keep on disrespecting people to puff yourself up more if you like.

[Bassmec]

Has done very good work for me and I would recommend him without question.

[Fletcher]

Originally Posted by corky

Apart from your obvious commercial motive for saying that Kane does better work than Sank

...and what "commercial motive" would that be?

Let's see - I work for a company that makes condenser microphones - OK, no commercial incentive there... I moderate/administrate at some other forums - nope still no commercial incentive I'm seeing... I spent some time at a couple of companies that represented Royer Labs - damn, still not getting the commercial tie in to ENAK... Wes Dooley is a dear friend... but I don't think that counts as "commercial motive" though he did buy me a beer once in Oregon [second Tape Op Conference to be exact].

Can you explain my commercial motive for recommending someone who has done superior work for me [paid every time] vs. someone who has done work that I have heard that sucked ass?

I fail to see my commercial motive, I fail to see where I would stand to benefit. If anything, if I had mics that required repair, I might actually stand to be inconvenienced as Clarence can only work so fast... if the queue was longer due to him having more work, it might take longer for my microphones to be returned.

BTW, "vintage ribbon" is a complete crock of shit. Metal is metal, and if it is the correct thickness and bent properly with the right machine then its right.

End of story.

You're the one selling a mic that was worked on by Sank - not me, so who stands to benefit by the "Sank endorsement" vs. the "ENAK endorsement".

That's a tough one to figure out... now ain't it.

Originally Posted by Bassmec

Has done very good work for me and I would recommend him without question.

...and what other tech's work do you have for comparison?

Just curious. If you're happy, you're happy - no harm, no foul... happy is good... but I've heard work from Dooley, Kane & Sank... and I know which one came in last in my world.... but as always, YMMV.

Peace.

[corky]

"You're the one selling a mic that was worked on by Sank - not me, so who stands to benefit by the "Sank endorsement" vs. the "ENAK endorsement"."

How the hell does my selling a mic have anything to do with it? Sounds to me like you're just trying to drum up business for your pal by telling lies about others. I think thast's pretty low. And lots of luck finding anyone else that will down Sank's work. That tells us more about you than him.

And yes, ribbons are easy to make. As are ribbon mics period. And I've yet to hear one that didn't sound as flat as a reference mic. But if people are willing to pay high prices for them, I'll put that money to better use.

[bxt403]

Reading the info for the BK5- it looks to be a very resilient mic.

I store my mics vertically in my bin- since it allows the easiest access; however, read years ago that the ribbon can sag if stored horizontally.

The BK5 diaphragm looks cylindrical and doesn't look like most ribbons- so would the diaphragm even succumb to warping/sagging from improper storage?

[chris319]

Clarence Kane does excellent work and deserves your business, but he won't be around forever. Just sayin'.

No commercial motive here.

[Silvertone]

Originally Posted by corky

Apart from your obvious commercial motive for saying that Kane does better work than Sank, I heartily disagree. But you let me know when he's been quoted from in as many articles, or when his own microphone designs have recieved as many rave reviews as Sank's Cloud mics have.

And having merely worked for RCA is obviously not the same as having been in charge of actual micrphone design like Sank's father was. Oh, and then there's the fact that Steve has a ton of NOS ribbons and other original RCA mic parts that no one else does. But hey, you can just keep on disrespecting people to puff yourself up more if you like.

Excuse me but Clarence was the HEAD repair tech for RCA... I think that more than qualifies him. Also, as far as I know Clarence bought all the old inventory from RCA's ribbon mic manufacturing division as well as the equipment.

Please do not slander one of the few original professionals left in our field (I'm talking Clarence here, not Fletcher... Fletcher is more than capable of defending himself!).

And yes... Sanks FATHER worked for RCA but Steven did not (as far as I know).

Now I will go back to lurking...

[PlugHead]

I'm not here to uphold or defend anyone, but I've had both Clarence and Stephen re-ribbon some Beyer mic's and both were fine jobs.

IIRC, there are a myriad of folks that have complained about service re: Mr. Sank. Suffice to say, you won't have to look very far to find some scathing comments - most dating a few years back. Maybe it was a tough time for him, maybe it was overblown, or possibly just hearsay. However, I'd take time to research and suss out what feels the best path for YOU when trusting your loved pieces of vintage gear for someone to repair properly and in a timely fashion.

I trust either of those 2 to carry out repairs on my mic's.

BTW - don't wait too long on sending things to Clarence - he's not getting any younger. The lad has gotta be into his 80's AFAIK?!?

peace

[corky]

Please do not slander one of the few original professionals left in our field

You might want to pass that on to Fletcher who opened that can of worms--not me. And please show me where I slandered Kane in any way. It wasn't me who slandered Kane--it was Fletcher who slandered Sank. I never once said, nor implied, that Kane didn't do good work. I said nothing about his work at all. It was said that Sank being merely the son of the man who invented some mics and headed the design of several others at RCA had no bearing on Steve's ability to work on them. But obviously if that knowledge was passed on to the son it has everything to do with his ability. And I pointed out the fact that Steve Sank has his own line of ribbon mics that are getting great reviews. Obviously this proves he knows ribbon mics very well. I know of no mic that Kane ever designed. That statement in no way disrepects the man. It's just a fact. But to sit here and make a statement that Steve Sank doesn't know anything about RCA or any other ribbon mic just because his dad designed them when Steve has designed his own mics is beyond silly.

I'll also say that the only time I dealt with Steve Sank was extremly positive. He went well out of his way to send me several emails letting me know everything that was going on every step of the way and did so without my asking him to. He even notified me the day my mic showed up in the mail just to say, "Hey, your mic got here today." I've sent in lots of stuff to be repaired over the years from camcorders to guitar amps, and never in my life has anyone called or sent an email just to tell me my gear had arrived at the shop. He replaced the cord and the ribbon while also cleaning it out for $120 including shipping. That seemed very reasonable to me. He could have replaced the bushings and grill cloth too and told me they were shot, and I would have never known the difference. I just can't say anything bad about the guy.