1073 or 1084, classic reissue or vintage?

[Tetness]

I know this has been examined over and over from every possible angle. But I'm about to make a purchase and I really need some help before I dive in.

I heard the new Neves sound every bit as good as the vintage ones. Perhaps better because there has been no degredation of the circuits. Which can be an added color.

I've been told the 1073s sound better than the 1084s but no one has given me an explination that I can understand.

So here it is. Should I get a new or vintage Neve? Should I get a 1084 or a 1073?

[syra]

I am too interested in the answer of that simple question...anyone?

peace

[Rab]

AMS Neve will tell you the re-issues are exactly what those units would have been from new. If a "vintage" unit doesn't sound like a new one, it needs servicing. The other consideration is the history of an old module and how it has been racked. Is it all original... blah...blah...blah?

But those new ones are mighty expensive... I could eat the cost on the modules, but when you see what's involved in the PSU and rack, you just know you're being milked.

There are a number of guys with excellent reputations for rebuilds... eg. Brent Averill. Maybe take a good look at these first.

oh yeah... 1073!!!!!

[toolstudio]

Getting a vintage or a reissue depends on the shape the vintage one is in, and it depends on your psycho seeing if you could live with a reissue.

For 1073 vs 1084,.... I would get the 1084 as you have 3 freq in the highs instead of the fixed 12k.


wolfgang

toolhouse studios, germany

[Kestral]

Hi everyone,

First time poster, long time lurker. Just wanted to say I recently picked up an AMS Neve 1073. Before doing so I had a chance to A/B it against quite a few different preamps (including vs. a stock vintage 1073 and a vintage 1073 serviced by Brent Averill). It really was splitting hairs in the end but I preferred the sound of the AMS Neve. Maybe it was because of the newer parts but things just sounded clearer and tighter. Obviously a vintage unit will likely hold its value better but given that I have been doing music for many years and will continue to do so, given that I didn't want to deal with the potential headaches of a vintage unit (I know they're generally very reliable but I just don't want to deal with it at all) and given that I had a chance to comprehensively try it out and for my own needs and preferences, preferred the sound of the AMS Neve, I decided to pull the trigger. My suggestion is to deal with someone like Vintage King who will let you try the unit out on spec so you can A/B it with other preamps beofre you make your decision. Hope this helps!

[Tetness]

Kestral,

Thanks for you reply. I recently purchased a new Ela-M 251 from Telefunken at the NAMM show. I was so blown away by the mike that it made me feel confident about the new reissue stuff. I myself don't want to hassle with gear breaking down and probably wouldn't even truly know when it would need some slight servicing unless something was apparent. I most likely will buy a AMS Neve. I will buy one in the steel AMS Neve Case. I think, now, it simply comes down to the 1084 or the 1073? The guys at Vintage King tell me I shold go w/a 1084 because of the added frequencies. What do you think?

[crypticglobe]

I recently made a "Neve" purchase as well. I was fortunately able to arrange to compare a Vintech, an Aurora Audio, A Brent Averill, 2 very well Mainted vintage 1073's, one New 1073 (re-issue), and a Chandler LTD-1.

They all sounded great. The Neves old/new were very hard to tell apart. But... the real suprise was the Chandler sounded best out of all of them. That's what I bought. I highly recommend checking it out.

[Tetness]

Could you expand on that? What is it about the Chandler that you like more? And you said the 1073s new vs old were hard to tell apart. Was there any difference and if there was, what was the difference? Thanks!

stike

[Thermionic]

According to this discussion: ******//recpit.prosoundweb.com/viewto...2162656d33abcf

at Fletcher's old forum, only AMS-NEVE have access to truly authentic 1073 / 81 transformers. Although Carnhill will make them for any oem (when you buy they make you sign a disclaimer stating you will not mention Neve in any company publicity) these models from Carnhill are not totally original as certain info was lost when Marinair / St Ives / Carnhill changed hands and only Neve retain it and have their transformers made to this spec.

Just thought it could be of interest.

Cheers,
Justin

[Tetness]

Is it! Thanks

[Kestral]

Originally posted by Tetness
Kestral,

Thanks for you reply. I recently purchased a new Ela-M 251 from Telefunken at the NAMM show. I was so blown away by the mike that it made me feel confident about the new reissue stuff. I myself don't want to hassle with gear breaking down and probably wouldn't even truly know when it would need some slight servicing unless something was apparent. I most likely will buy a AMS Neve. I will buy one in the steel AMS Neve Case. I think, now, it simply comes down to the 1084 or the 1073? The guys at Vintage King tell me I shold go w/a 1084 because of the added frequencies. What do you think?

Hi Tetness - congratulations on the Elam! You know what, I think you made the best choice possible! My studio partner ended up buying a real vintage Neumann U47 tube. We've had so many problems with it (and we still do at this point - we've set it up so that we don't move it for fear of it losing signal again) that at this point, my partner is thinking trading it for either a Korby reissue or an Elam 251 reissue.

No matter how well something old is built, it is not exempt from the laws of entropy. I went through this with guitars too. I had a choice between a reissue 70's Strat or a real deal, not a huge difference in price and the real Strat was just so old that the pickups sounded much weaker (due to years of aging) and a whole bunch of other issues. What would be ideal would have been to buy a vintage one for the wood (neck, body) and then put all new reissue electronics into it.

As for whether to go for a 1084 or 1073, that ends up being a personal choice. I can tell you why I went with the 1073. I chose the 1073 because I come from the Brian Eno school of "limiting options". In any given studio, there is so much gear as to provide almost limitless options. So a lot of times, the job of a producer really is to limit the options available. So to me, the less knobs the better and the 1073 has less options, but is also much simpler than the 1084. Plus it involves a sense of trust. I trust that Rupert Neve is a brilliant engineer and that he put the single 12K selection on the 1073 (instead of the three selections on the 1084) is because he felt that sounded great.

Being a keyboard player, I used to own synths that had thousands upon thousands of sounds and possibilities. Yet when it came down to crunch time and I needed a sound fast and quick, I always ran to my Juno 106. It's a very simply limited synth but I knew it inside out and as a result was able to get great sounds out of it quickly and easily.

I'm kind of going through this right now because I'm looking for a high end compressor. Now I know that the Distressor is a great compressor with TONS of options and features, but I've pretty much decided that I'm going to just get an a good 1176. Certainly not as flexible as a Distressor, which limits my options, but also allows me to quickly learn the unit inside out and know it intimately. In the end I feel it's important to have a great relationship with the gear you use rather than getting great gear with a million options and not really knowing it.

[Rab]

Originally posted by Kestral
So a lot of times, the job of a producer really is to limit the options available. So to me, the less knobs the better and the 1073 has less options, but is also much simpler than the 1084. Plus it involves a sense of trust. I trust that Rupert Neve is a brilliant engineer and that he put the single 12K selection on the 1073 (instead of the three selections on the 1084) is because he felt that sounded great...

... I'm going to just get an a good 1176. Certainly not as flexible as a Distressor, which limits my options, but also allows me to quickly learn the unit inside out and know it intimately. In the end I feel it's important to have a great relationship with the gear you use rather than getting great gear with a million options and not really knowing it.

Absolutley spot on.

[Tetness]

I agree with you. I'm not an engineer and wouldn't use most of the frequencies on a 1084. I highly recommend the Ela-M 251 if you want to trade in your vintage U-47. You can't go wrong with an 1176. That's what I'm getting. I am intrigued by the Chandler TG-1. But most likely I will buy an AMS-1073 and use that in Conjection with a 2-1176. If I can't make it work with those units, then I probably should just do something else.

[not_so_new]

Hey Kestral great post.....



Rock on.

[Kestral]

Oh wow, thanks for the props everyone! I was kind of nervous posting to this group because everyone here is such a consummate pro, it's pretty intimidating. I'm a Senior Member on the Harmony Central forums but yapping about guitar effects pedals is one thing, talking high end shop is a completely different ball game.

Tetness, I was wondering, when you say the 2-1176, do you mean that new reissue Universal Audio unit that has two 1176 reissues built into a case that looks kind of like a 6176 preamp/compressor?

The reason I ask is because we still have a 6176 on loaner in my space right now and the 1176 in it is GOOD but it's not GREAT like a real 1176. As we like to say in the guitar effects forums, it doesn't have the "mojo". I've also used the UA reissue blackface mono 1176 and put it up against an original blackface rev F and two silver face blue stripes, and the reissue just isn't all the way there the way imo that the AMS Neve is.

On the other hand, the prcie of second hand reissue 1176 units on eBay is really good right now and whether you go UA or Purple, you can pick one up for about $1000-1200 USD.

[Tetness]

No. The 2-1176 is a stereo version of the 1176. Here's a link. Check it out. ******//www.vintageking.com/new_detai...nventoryID=660

[Kestral]

Yup Tetness, that's the box I was describing (should have posted a picture). Have you had a chance to try the unit out? If the 1176's in there are anything like the mono blackface reissue or the 1176 in the 6176, then I'm kind of luke warm on it vs. the real thing.

BTW, Mike Nehra at Vintage King is first class all the way! They let you try out units so you may want to get one shipped over to try and compare before making a decision, I'd be interested to know what you think.

[Tetness]

So you're saying that it's better to have (2) 1176s than one 2-1176 because they're different? Interesting. Thanks for the tip!

[thethrillfactor]

Originally posted by Tetness
So here it is. Should I get a new or vintage Neve? Should I get a 1084 or a 1073?

1084.

[Kestral]

Originally posted by Tetness
So you're saying that it's better to have (2) 1176s than one 2-1176 because they're different? Interesting. Thanks for the tip!

Something like that It's better to have two original vintage 1176's than any of the reissues. But given the reissues, I'm not sure if they really match up the to the real deal.

Also, I read somewhere that the blackface reissue has a transformer and the 1176 reissues such as the one in the 6176 and the 2-1176 may not have the transformer, you may want to look into that.

[Tetness]

You know where I can get two original 1176s, the ones you're talking about?

[bassmac]

Originally posted by Kestral
It's better to have two original vintage 1176's than any of the reissues.

Why is it ÒbetterÓ?

[syra]

I don't know if you already when through this but is the 1073/1084 pre the same?...

[echorec]

Originally posted by Tetness
You know where I can get two original 1176s, the ones you're talking about?

They show up on ebay all the time.

[Meriphew]

Originally posted by Kestral
Oh wow, thanks for the props everyone! I was kind of nervous posting to this group because everyone here is such a consummate pro, it's pretty intimidating. I'm a Senior Member on the Harmony Central forums but yapping about guitar effects pedals is one thing, talking high end shop is a completely different ball game.

Good to see you here Kestral.

[Tetness]

Gear nut

Registered: Apr 2003
Location: LA
Posts: 132
I don't know if you already when through this but is the 1073/1084 pre the same?...
_________________________________________

Huh?

I'm not sure what you're asking and forgive me if I misunderstand. the 1073 and the 1084 are not the same. The 1084 is based on the same technology as the 1073. However, the 1084 offers additional features, including 3 switchable EQ bands with cut and boost, a high Q for presence and low pass/high pass filters.

[Kestral]

Originally posted by Meriphew
Good to see you here Kestral.

Bob! :D

[syra]

Yeah I know about the eq points...I was talking about the actual preamp...

[Tetness]

From what I know, they're the same beast that offer the same punch. According to Neve's website as well.

[Meriphew]

Originally posted by Kestral
Bob! :D

No, not Merrihew
Meriphew.