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AMS-Neve Genesys vs. SSL AWS900+
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Rob G
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#1
20th October 2007
Old 20th October 2007
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AMS-Neve Genesys vs. SSL AWS900+

AMS-Neve Genesys vs. SSL AWS900+: Which one do you think is a better console.

Rob G..
#2
20th October 2007
Old 20th October 2007
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I'll bite.

The Neve.

Why?

The AWS 900 (as it comes) doesn't have the features of an "SSL" as I know and hear them. IMO.

-a
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20th October 2007
Old 20th October 2007
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Hard to have an opinion when no one has used the Neve yet. Unless of course you have an AMS NEVE tatoo!

Now the AWs is not by any means a mini 4k or 9k and feels cramped for me but it sounds pretty good!
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20th October 2007
Old 20th October 2007
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They're two completely different products. One of the biggest features of the AWS is the double duty/controller aspect. One of the biggest features of the Neve is the sound.
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20th October 2007
Old 20th October 2007
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I am flabbergasted that this thread even exists, let alone is being contributed to.

Let's ONCE AGAIN make comparisons between things we have not used side-by-side or even HEARD YET. It's just like the 8816 all over again. Mr Crabtree and his team at AMS-Neve must love using the hype...

I'm sure that the 3 of you, as regular posters, will fully appreciate that I mean this in the nicest possible way....
Hob
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20th October 2007
Old 20th October 2007
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Hahaha he told you guys.
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20th October 2007
Old 20th October 2007
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Oh, come now...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim@SSL View Post
I am flabbergasted that this thread even exists, let alone is being contributed to.

Let's ONCE AGAIN make comparisons between things we have not used side-by-side or even HEARD YET. It's just like the 8816 all over again. Mr Crabtree and his team at AMS-Neve must love using the hype...

I'm sure that the 3 of you, as regular posters, will fully appreciate that I mean this in the nicest possible way....
Oh come now, you've (as SSL) have been the fair recipient of "hype" on the board more than enough times, the street goes both ways. Ya can't have it one way and scream foul the next... we love SSL too!

-a
#8
20th October 2007
Old 20th October 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob G View Post
AMS-Neve Genesys vs. SSL AWS900+: Which one do you think is a better console.

Rob G..
Uh?
aside from initial specs and pictures,How could anyone remotely have a clue about the Neve?
Noone has even heard it yet.
#9
20th October 2007
Old 20th October 2007
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I don't like remote eq's or eq'ing.The new api 1604 and ssl aws did not forget the eq's should be in the console where they are best utilized.
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20th October 2007
Old 20th October 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoundBadge View Post
Uh?
aside from initial specs and pictures,How could anyone remotely have a clue about the Neve?
Noone has even heard it yet.
exactly.
but based on what I have read here about the neve sofar (relatively limited DAW control - again hihgly dicsoutable if it's true or false ) I would go for a AWS and add a X-rack full of dynamic modules. simply the dual layer console/DAW mode of the AWS is exactly the feature that would make me happy. have an analog console and have a DAW controller and have it in ONE box. and as I see the prices of the used AWS dropping maybe my dream will become a reality sooner or later
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20th October 2007
Old 20th October 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by morpheuzrecords View Post
exactly.
but based on what I have read here about the neve sofar (relatively limited DAW control - again hihgly dicsoutable if it's true or false ) I would go for a AWS and add a X-rack full of dynamic modules. simply the dual layer console/DAW mode of the AWS is exactly the feature that would make me happy. have an analog console and have a DAW controller and have it in ONE box. and as I see the prices of the used AWS dropping maybe my dream will become a reality sooner or later
Yeah,aside from cool features,but how do they compare sonically?
New Neve,Api,Wunder,etc
no one knows yet.
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20th October 2007
Old 20th October 2007
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As most of you know, I'm an SSL AWS900 user and could care less about the Genesys--Until all of its options are shipping along with the console and been in the market for a few months, I really don't see how any of us could really compare these two. FWIW, I see a console in terms of mixing and the SSL delivers the sound I want/need. For tracking, I'd look at a Neve if they would have put out something like the API1608--but they didn't.

Oh well, whatever.... Like my opinion matters at all. Anyways, If I didn't use this SSL AWS900, I'd probably be using/buying the Wunder console.
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#13
21st October 2007
Old 21st October 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoundBadge View Post
Yeah,aside from cool features,but how do they compare sonically?
New Neve,Api,Wunder,etc
no one knows yet.
well, at least once the Genesys is available for audition it won't be too hard to find out how it fares against real 1084s.
#14
21st October 2007
Old 21st October 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raal View Post
well, at least once the Genesys is available for audition it won't be too hard to find out how it fares against real 1084s.
I'm ready and waiting
#15
22nd October 2007
Old 22nd October 2007
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When will the Genesys be available for download?

I'm in a 'wait and see' mode as to which is better.
Rob G
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#16
23rd October 2007
Old 23rd October 2007
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Consider this timeframe like a pre-race interview with both drivers. Stat.'s, & data are all that you have until the race begins. Then it's 'let the best console win'. This early on this thread was meant to cause individuals to scratch their heads. But then again just having the word 'Neve', or 'SSL' will cause some to open their checkbooks.

Rob G..

P.S.: I have a good feeling about the Genesys just like I did about the AWS900's when they first came out.
#17
23rd October 2007
Old 23rd October 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob G View Post
P.S.: I have a good feeling about the Genesys just like I did about the AWS900's when they first came out.
i'm thankful to SSL for starting this tendency, thankful to AMS and API for rising to the occasion, and will probably be thankful for SSL's answer to this.

i think it's incredible news that manufacturers of this calibre aren't ignoring the home and smaller studio market. good times ahead. i really can't wait to take Genesys out for a test drive.
#18
23rd October 2007
Old 23rd October 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob G View Post
P.S.: I have a good feeling about the Genesys just like I did about the AWS900's when they first came out.
So, how did the SSL AWS900 live up to your expectations?

And as for any previous posts that get their undie pants in a wad about comparing the two and that the Neve isn't out... go do a search and see if that has stopped anyone on this forum from discussing the possible merits as they stand.

I seem to recall a 1000+ post thread on the Toft ATB or something YEARS before anyone ever heard one, so why the complaints now

We know what the Neve specs are, we know the SSL, the question was; what do ya think?

Not rocket science.

-a
#19
23rd October 2007
Old 23rd October 2007
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Facts:
Neve is cheaper to start off with. SSL is more
Neve is expandable. SSl is not
The Neve has Neve Eq's and Comps. The SSL ahs SSL ones
Neve is faster when you need to do a session recall than an SSL
Opinion:
I'd rather mix on a Neve.
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#20
23rd October 2007
Old 23rd October 2007
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CORRECT ME IF IM WRONG IF THIS BOARD HAS EQ AND DYNAMICS BUILT IN IT).That stated,I think we get too much or too little with these newer boards.Everything ala carte to meet a price point.There's nothing in the middle.You get this or an 88R and thats wacky.Lets say you buy the new AMS gen-whatever for your studio.Are you going to not have EQ?Are you planning on saving a few bucks and hooking up the 16 channel speck EQ rack?.You know you WILL ABSOLUTLY NEED/WANT some extra eq's in a rack.Where do you put em?You just roll your Herman Miller chair over to the other side of the room to pull out the mud and add a little top?Thats not a console.That is an expensive extra add on P.I.T.A.that will distract from or slowdown your workflow.A console should be a solution in a single housing with all the basic tools in one place.This is not a real step forward for Neve but more lateral.Also,If you already own your favorite classic outboard neve micpre/eq's,(and you probably do or want to)it's redundant to hook-em up to this gen-whatever because they've already sold you a 16 pre-only EQ ALA CARTE console.What english Frank Loyd Wrong thought up that one?..."we dont eq at the console anymore"..ha ha.ha.They do drive on the other side of the road over there I guess.On a side note,It would have been funny if they added a D.S.P. EQ with waves V models just to get you by in a pinch.You could really cut some costs!Why wont Neve make something to drop our new or old 1073's/1081/1084's into with bussing and the rest of it?Those are the classic tools.The bcm's and the 80 series..DEAR NEVE,Make us a fancy new BCM/small frame 80 series with a few xtra options for today.Make it $100k.Do it right.Rant over... Flame me away please.
#21
23rd October 2007
Old 23rd October 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carlheinz View Post
Why wont Neve make something to drop our new or old 1073's/1081/1084's into with bussing and the rest of it? Those are the classic tools.The bcm's and the 80 series..DEAR NEVE,Make us a fancy new BCM/small frame 80 series with a few xtra options for today.Make it $100k.Do it right.
so you'd rather pay $4K+/channel for pre/EQs, take pics and try to recall manually over the same channel with reset for $1.5K?

A) let's see... 16 X $4K = $64K for 1084s. no recall. which leaves you with a $24K frame with no recall for your $100K budget.

vs.

B) 16 X 1084s onboard EQs with reset ($24K), automation + DAW control + recall ($10.5K), 40 input desk not including inserts ($50K) with instant reset, with all switches and controls automatable and 5.1 for a total of about $85K.

A is right and B is wrong?
#22
23rd October 2007
Old 23rd October 2007
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I love our aws with a passion, cant wait to cop a duality next year. If I want the neve sound I'd rather have it on the tracking side which an 8 rack of 73's is my cure for. As far as the mixing and daw control, the aws is top notch in my book. and yes I had to grab a crapload of comps but I'd rather have the variety that I have than a grip of ssl ones anyway so its not a big deal for me.

bottom line is they are both gonna be amazing boards and different people will have an appreciation for either...or both? one sluts trash is another sluts treasure.
#23
25th October 2007
Old 25th October 2007
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Hey..EEEZZZ.I' was unaware of the 1084 onboard eq's W RECALL!.Ok I stand corrected.B MAKES CENTS!I thought I was looking at a board with no onboard EQ which started my ranting.It's looking to be a fine console.Thank you.


Quote:
Originally Posted by raal View Post
so you'd rather pay $4K+/channel for pre/EQs, take pics and try to recall manually over the same channel with reset for $1.5K?

A) let's see... 16 X $4K = $64K for 1084s. no recall. which leaves you with a $24K frame with no recall for your $100K budget.

vs.

B) 16 X 1084s onboard EQs with reset ($24K), automation + DAW control + recall ($10.5K), 40 input desk not including inserts ($50K) with instant reset, with all switches and controls automatable and 5.1 for a total of about $85K.

A is right and B is wrong?
#24
25th October 2007
Old 25th October 2007
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AMS-Neve appears as a much more considerate company providing an a-la-carte product.
A few months ago I spent some time auditioning the AWS, with budget in hand, this is how I felt:
I dont want 24 channels of ssl eq (Most of the time I use much nicer outboard for eq-ing), so WHY PAY FOR IT??? I asked them if it could be configured differently, by maybe adding more compressor strips, and the answer was:
NO....Pay $90,000 for the board plus another $15,000 to add an X-Rack

My feeling is that SSL tries to dictates what one needs, completely ignoring that the tendency of pro-audio is to becaome more modular, as to achieve better pricing=better profit for mid level studios.

Neve's proposal is interesting and Im really wanting to check it out.

Just one humble opinion in the crowd but hey, I have worked my asssss off for my $100k's and the least thing I want to hear from a company that is about to get it is:
NO, IT CAN"T BE DONE


~A
#25
25th October 2007
Old 25th October 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carlheinz View Post
Hey..EEEZZZ.I' was unaware of the 1084 onboard eq's W RECALL!.Ok I stand corrected.B MAKES CENTS!I thought I was looking at a board with no onboard EQ which started my ranting.It's looking to be a fine console.Thank you.
i think the confusion was because the base configuration has no EQ/Dyn. everything after that is optional: EQ, Dyn, recall/reset, automation, etc. that's why the 'less than $50K' price.

makes sense to me as some people may want more Dyn than EQ, some vice versa, and some may just want a tracking console console that interfaces easily with their existing gear.

the thing i'm waiting to see is how comprehensive DAW/onboard EQ/Dyn control will be, and of course the sound, but i think the concept of the console addresses the hybrid market nicely. and if it really has resetable 1084s, that's a big deal to me.
#26
25th October 2007
Old 25th October 2007
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Quote:
My feeling is that SSL tries to dictates what one needs, completely ignoring that the tendency of pro-audio is to becaome more modular, as to achieve better pricing=better profit for mid level studios.
There are plenty of non-modular boards out there. That's just the way the board is designed, and how it's able to be built at that price point. I don't see it as "dictating" what one needs...that's just the way the board is. And I wouldn't say that they're "completely ignoring" the modular aspect of things...the X-Rack shows that. The AWS is simply not a modular console.
#27
25th October 2007
Old 25th October 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amadeuz View Post
AMS-Neve appears as a much more considerate company providing an a-la-carte product.
A few months ago I spent some time auditioning the AWS, with budget in hand, this is how I felt:
I dont want 24 channels of ssl eq (Most of the time I use much nicer outboard for eq-ing), so WHY PAY FOR IT??? I asked them if it could be configured differently, by maybe adding more compressor strips, and the answer was:
NO....Pay $90,000 for the board plus another $15,000 to add an X-Rack

My feeling is that SSL tries to dictates what one needs, completely ignoring that the tendency of pro-audio is to becaome more modular, as to achieve better pricing=better profit for mid level studios.

Neve's proposal is interesting and Im really wanting to check it out.

Just one humble opinion in the crowd but hey, I have worked my asssss off for my $100k's and the least thing I want to hear from a company that is about to get it is:
NO, IT CAN"T BE DONE


~A
That's the last thing we were trying to do. The AWS is not modular, and was designed as an "off the shelf" product. We know that is won't suit everyone, but we tried to make a product that would suit most.

Shame it didn't suit your needs...... but who knows if we might make something that does.
#28
25th October 2007
Old 25th October 2007
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wow. folks are falling in hard on ams-neve side like it was still rupert neve at the helm.

all i have seen on this board is the downing of ams-neve and all it's products.

No one has heard or used this ams-neve board so how can anyone have an opinion other than what's said in press releases?
#29
25th October 2007
Old 25th October 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by computa View Post
wow. folks are falling in hard on ams-neve side like it was still rupert neve at the helm.
i for one am not on any side, but at least apparently, this product is the closest i've seen to what i've envisioned for years now.
not 100% there yet (from what i've seen) but it is the closest so far.

Quote:
No one has heard or used this ams-neve board so how can anyone have an opinion other than what's said in press releases?
right. i think that's all that's been discussed here so far, really.

no reason not to believe the thing will perform as advertised (digitally controlled analog has been around for awhile), but the proof will be in the puddin'.
#30
25th October 2007
Old 25th October 2007
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-It's easy to like something on paper. Due to location for many folks on this board, may never see or hear either unless they buy one or go for a trip.. so its actually not that preposterous to compare white paper of Neve to SSL... even if the Neve is not out.

-When the genesis is born to the market I hope for it's sake that its built like a tank or alot of the interest will disapate and fast.
--- To AMS's credit it looks like they have done a good job at watching the reaction to the AWS and have made a product that answers too that.
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