Amek Mozart RN getting racked!

[Cosmonauta]

A dude (owner of a famous studio) in my city will sell each individual module of an Amek Mozart (the Rupert Neve design one) racked with customized power supply.

I don´t know the price yet, they says it will go cheap.

Is it worthwhile to take a look?

How Mozart compares to the 9098 (whiches I like the Eq a lot)?

Thx.

[Cosmonauta]

Would love to read he review but I have no idea how to find it.

I heard this board had crosstalk problems, but what about the EQ? That´s what I´m most interest.

thx

[Audio Hombre]

lol

man slip can always make me laugh.he has a gift.hope he's as good an engineer as he is a creative writer

[StevieRaveOn]

Originally Posted by slipperman

Holy Cow.

Brand new abbreviated version of the classic "JimboJum vs. GoliAthMEK" GS story.

Surely... after 14 years, and thousands of recountings to captive audiences, a movie deal is in the works.

Maybe Paramount.

Who have probably layed out 2 million for coffee stirrers in the last week.

Money they would not have had to spend if Jim hadn't saved them from those evil bastards at AMEK way back when.

SM.

PS. Always liked the MozartRN pre's. Great headroom. Decent Eq. for a lotta stuff... And, unlike Jim, I have actually USED the desk to make HUNDREDS of records, and billed a coupla mill USD for myself on it over the last 15 years. Anyhoo. Bottleneck on the desk has always been in the summing amps. Which you won't HAVE in a rack mounted affair... So I'm sure everybody who doesn't bathe daily with an AP-2700 will be quite pleased.

SM,
What's the issue with the summing amps? Headroom? I might be involved with one in a couple of months, just curious for any user info like that.

Peace.

[MJGreene Audio]

Originally Posted by Jim Williams

Read my review on the Mozart RN from REP magazine from 1995. There are design flaws in it. The mic pre's ring at 200 k hz at +6 db. I published all the specs including the EQ curves in it. It is very informative, much more info than Amek ever put out on it. It cost them a 2 million dollar sale to Paramount studios after they read the article and saw the specs.

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

In defense of this but only slightly. I was there when Jim did the test. I was the assistant on the date!.. Jim did find things that weren't published. He did find the flaws in the mic pre which AMEK already knew about and was in the process of fixing on future revisions. I along with the head tech of AMEK at the time and another engineer at the studio had to go through all 32 channels in the board and install the modification to fix the ringing/ocillation problem. It was done after Jim tested the board. It did seem to fix the problem and I am pretty sure that every module made after that was also fixed.

Another problem they had was they used the wrong caps in the early modules. They couldn't take the heat and went bad VERY quickly. We started by changing out quite a number of modules but ran out of time. When a module would start acting up it was pulled out of service and re-capped. Also modules were re-capped as time permitted. It was not a pleasant experience but that is what you get when you live on the bleeding edge of technology. The studio was given a great deal on the console since they had serial number 002 or the first Mozarts and they had the first 32 Rupert Neve modules that were ever built. Problems and all!

As Slipperman said the summing amps were an issue and I know our tech went through and cleaned a lot of that up at the time because he heard something not right in there.

My question is why would that slip past the design team or the designers? No idea but I know for some people it affected their decision to buy. As Slipperman also said it didn't seem to stop him from making some really great records.

I love Jim and have the utmost respect for him! He strives for perfection and expects it in everything he does. I have no doubt that if Jim had been allowed to take a stab at the summing in the Mozart and if you had modified any of the AMEK channels with some of the stuff he does regardless of the stock modules or the RN modules they would be an amazing piece of work.

The RN modules are what they are. I liked the mic pre, I liked the eq. It was a good design (with some issues) that went on into other AMEK products until Harman decided to nail the coffin shut on the product line.

Sadly as with most companies the bean counters win out over the designers and a product may suffer in the end.

AMEK is and was a great brand in my opinion that never got over the Neve/SSL hump although they tried and perhaps if they had designed and delivered the 9098 5-10 years earlier they could have.

I should add that I didn't know about the loss of the sale to Paramount. That is interesting news to me 17 years later.

Michael Greene

[allencollins]

Originally Posted by slipperman

Holy Cow.

Brand new abbreviated version of the classic "JimboJum vs. GoliAthMEK" GS story.

Surely... after 14 years, and thousands of recountings to captive audiences, a movie deal is in the works.

Maybe Paramount.

Who have probably layed out 2 million for coffee stirrers in the last week.

Money they would not have had to spend if Jim hadn't saved them from those evil bastards at AMEK way back when.

SM.

PS. Always liked the MozartRN pre's. Great headroom. Decent Eq. for a lotta stuff... And, unlike Jim, I have actually USED the desk to make HUNDREDS of records, and billed a coupla mill USD for myself on it over the last 15 years. Anyhoo. Bottleneck on the desk has always been in the summing amps. Which you won't HAVE in a rack mounted affair... So I'm sure everybody who doesn't bathe daily with an AP-2700 will be quite pleased.

Nice!
I love you slipperman you are the best!!!!!!!!
Don't hold back

[dobz]

Hey guys,

Was wondering how you thought about other Amek desks.
The big and the Einstien
The TAC matchless and SR6000.
But anything on any of them i'm interested in!

[MJGreene Audio]

Originally Posted by dobz

Hey guys,

Was wondering how you thought about other Amek desks.
The big and the Einstien
The TAC matchless and SR6000.
But anything on any of them i'm interested in!

The Big is a total piece of shit! The Einstien only a bit better. The TAC Matchless and then the Magnum were perhaps the worst sounding "Consoles" I have ever had the displeasure of putting audio thru. The Matchless and horrible SSM-2015 mic pre's with virtually no headroom and nothing but edge and distortion. The eq was strident and razor sounding on the top, Midrange was earsplitting at almost every frequency with perhaps the most grainy sound I have ever heard, the low end was as flubby and unfocused as a tub full of jello. I just can't say one redeeming thing about any of the TAC series of "Consoles". I put console in quotes because anyone who has every used an actual professional console would never consider them anything more that a joke or a bad toy. Every part on them was cheap. Crappy pots, faders, caps, resistors, wire, patchbays. Hell even the metal work felt like it came from the cheapest place on the planet. A Mackie probably sounds better than those POS's.

The Big was probably the worst design and idea that I have seen in a console. The only thing nice about it was that it had a lot of inputs in a very small package. It sounded like crap though.

Stay away from them at all costs. If someone offers to give one of these to you, find out what you can get for it on the scrap metal market and then dump it.

[Jay Kahrs]

Originally Posted by MJGreene Audio

The Big is a total piece of shit! The Einstien only a bit better. The TAC Matchless and then the Magnum were perhaps the worst sounding "Consoles" I have ever had the displeasure of putting audio thru. The Matchless and horrible SSM-2015 mic pre's with virtually no headroom and nothing but edge and distortion.

Indeed!

That's why Lanois & several other cats own & love the Matchless...

All those '80s U2 records sure do suck don't they?! What were they thinking using one of those trashcans?!?!

As for the RN designed Amek Mo, I spent many an hour sitting behind one about 10 years ago and never once did I think there was something wrong with the audio quality of the desk... Even though I was learning the trade back then most of that stuff still holds up in terms of sonic quality even though I was sucking wind...

Funny story... One day we had a tech come in to some regular maintence stuff & we asked him about this one module on the desk that sounded WAY better then any of the others. We had been tracking through it for months, always patch the lead vox there etc... Really ballsy sounding. We asked our tech man about modding the other 39 channels on the desk to sound like the "good" one & it turns out that module was fukked up & about to fail!!!

HAHAHAHAHA!!!

Jim, Micheal... next time someone offers you one of those "POS" Amek desks for free gimmie a call... I'd be MORE then happy to pay you the scrap metal fees...

[crypticglobe]

I also have a Mozart 56 channel frame with 40 RN modules.

I know Jim is a real genius in his field, but my ears and the ears of my clients don't lie. The Mozart RN sounds simply amazing. It is a FANTASTIC sounding console. The pre's don't have any audible "ring" that I have ever noticed and I use them daily with outstanding satisfaction. They actually compete (and sometimes win) with a lot of the VERY high quality outboard pre's I have (Chandler, API, Seventh Circle, and more).

So.... simply... don't listen to Jim on this. The Mozart RN is one of my favorite sounding desks. It rocks. I am finding it's definitely a maintenance hog..... but that's another story.

How would the channel sound by itself? I would say pretty good probably... but it probably ought to be a REAL good deal. If not.. there are other newer products that would probably make you happier. I think those channels go for around $600.00 a pop on the used market. Guys are always looking for spares... or to fill out their shortloaded consoles. If I keep this one long term... I might fill it out myself.....

jmtc...

[MJGreene Audio]

Originally Posted by Jim Williams

The line input to EQ is good. The EQ curves are very musical. Just watch out for that mic pre. Rupert did call after that article came out, it was mostly a CYA call, "I didn't design that part" sort of call. Bussing group to group was very good, around -85 db. You can mount them and buss across with no problems. It was the stereo master that measured -44 db crosstalk.

Drop in some better chips like the LM4562 in place of the MC33078's and you will have a winner.
Digi-Key Corporation - USA Home Page

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

I really wonder what Rupert was thinking when he called you. It sounds like a true CYA story. I would have to look again at the schematics but the mic pre is very similar to the Focusrite ISA series if I remember correctly. (Gee its only been 13 years since I last used and maintained one) It was touted at the time as his TLA amplifier aka a transformerless mic pre that had all the characteristics of a transformer I/0 mic pre. I know its all just marketing hoodoo bullshit but I do seem to remember that as being the sales pitch.

The main thing that I remember is that they had much more headroom and a much more open sound than the MZ-10 and MZ-11 modules that were standard on the Mozart. Not that there was anything wrong with those modules either. They sounded great and the eq was pretty much the classic AMEK eq from the early days. I loved those eq's also.

[MJGreene Audio]

Originally Posted by Jay Kahrs

Indeed!

That's why Lanois & several other cats own & love the Matchless...

All those '80s U2 records sure do suck don't they?! What were they thinking using one of those trashcans?!?!

As for the RN designed Amek Mo, I spent many an hour sitting behind one about 10 years ago and never once did I think there was something wrong with the audio quality of the desk... Even though I was learning the trade back then most of that stuff still holds up in terms of sonic quality even though I was sucking wind...

Funny story... One day we had a tech come in to some regular maintence stuff & we asked him about this one module on the desk that sounded WAY better then any of the others. We had been tracking through it for months, always patch the lead vox there etc... Really ballsy sounding. We asked our tech man about modding the other 39 channels on the desk to sound like the "good" one & it turns out that module was fukked up & about to fail!!!

HAHAHAHAHA!!!

Jim, Micheal... next time someone offers you one of those "POS" Amek desks for free gimmie a call... I'd be MORE then happy to pay you the scrap metal fees...

Um sure. Ok. If I ever run across one I will be sure to send it your way!

[MJGreene Audio]

Originally Posted by Jim Williams

Ohh, they're not THAT bad! Audio Maintanence in UK has some retrofit mic pre's that fit the 2015 sockets. The polystyrene HF EQ caps are good, better than you will find in Soundcraft. The chips are the standard TLO72's. I have been through around 20 of these and they can sound good. DIY's can drop in some National LM4562's and get much better THD and noise specs. Some of you like the dirt from the TLO's but do you like the noise?

Bigs need a bit more work but the same applies. Drop in the National parts. Drop in the SSM2019's into the mic pre's. Drop in some that 2180 VCA's and then you're getting somewhere.

Mouser Electronics - Electronic Component Distributor
Digi-Key Corporation - USA Home Page

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

Jim. I believe you but only because I have heard what you can do to some totally dreadful gear. But good god why would you want to? Unless you get it for free why would anyone put the time into it?

[Matt Syson]

Hi
So exactly WHICH version of MZ15 modules were you playing with.
There are also 4 or 5 revisions of stereo mix card, addressing crosstalk and headroom issues.
The 2019 and 2180 were not available when the BIG was in its main production era.
Recapping was hardly mentioned 10 years ago and it certainly is not headlined on any big brand desk brochures where it is certainly needed.
Matt S

[porkyc]

Leave plenty of ventilation!!
Cava Studios in Glasgow had one of these, the first analog console in the world to need push-pull fans!! All those 5534s cooking away! Caps dried out overnight.

[Matt Syson]

Hi
There are only a handful of 5534 in a Mozart, a fair smattering of 5532 but mostly 33078 and TLO72.
Many other manufacturers consoles NEEDED fans well before the Mozart RN.
Matt S

[PhantomBox]

I was wondering if you still have the schematic for a MZ15RN or MZ11 I/O module. I'm racking up both of this modules for a friend of mine and without the schematics I'm kind of stuck with the connections and then, of cause, if they work at all.
The MZ11 module says on the PCB "AMEK GL728E" and on a sticker next to it "KIT NO. AB3862 / DATE 10/5/95"
The MZ15RN says "AMEK JP712D" and "KIT NO. AB386B / DATE 10/5/95"
IF you do have the schematic for it on hand and if its not too much trouble for you, you can contact me privately.
Thanks in advance,

phantombox

[Matt Syson]

Hi
Audiomaintenance will have the schematics for these modules. The studio in Caracas which had a Mozart will also have a copy.
Best regards
Matt S