Quad 8 .... whats the skinny?

[Wiggy Neve Slut]

Hey there...

have been chatting to a cpuple of mates and they have started raving about the old Qaud 8 desks and rep/eq modules.

I have tried a few a while back and they often pop up here in Australia and look to be nice and all with their switched freqs etc... but can not remember what they sound like.

I know they have quite a 'rock and roll' 70's hertiage and Dean Jensen did a lot of deisgn work for them in their heyday. Apparently Steely Dan's frost album was cut on one on LA.. dont know where tho!

So.. opinions pls... i am loooking for new flavours other than my favourite neves....

PEACE
Wiggy

[Bob Olhsson]

Quad-Eight was the second high-end recording console manufacturer in the United States that was started by some of the engineers from Electrodyne which had been the first. After several years as the leading console manufacturer, API took over most of their market because we all LOVED the 550 equalizer which was the first really first class console equalizer.

Deane Jensen left Quad-Eight to manufacture upgrade opamps and transformers for API consoles because many people considered the basic API signal path to be a significant step down from Quad-Eight.

[Jay Kahrs]

One of the stories I've heard about them was that there was some kind of major problem with the consoles they made (grounding???) and while the fixed everyone of them, it cost them so much that they went under.

[drundall]

I have 4 channels of Q8 pre/EQ's that look older than dirt and sound like instant motown...

[daniel c]

Hey wiggy!

We have two modules in our rack. Kind of a cross between a Neve and a API , but not exactly like either...if you know what i mean.

We have the white modules that came from a console that was intended for film mixing. The eq is passive (so i have been told) , there's a transformer on the input , it's class A , all discrete..blah , blah , blah...all the good stuff. Sounds very warm and smooth.

A few other Sydney studios are picking up Quad 8 pieces. Paradise have a rack full of them , Turtlerock have a few , and Big Jesus Burger have a Coranado console. We had Josh Abrahams in Velvet at before he moved back to Melbourne and after he tried our Quad 8's he had to get some.

Do yourself a favour!!

D

[Knox]

I have a couple of Quad 8 compressors that I need wiring / pin out info if anyone can give a hand. Need to build a power supply etc.

[mwagener]

got an old QE stereo/dual mono compressor with built in de-esser. Great on bass.

[Wiggy Neve Slut]

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Keep it coming... u never knwo thats in that cupboard in the back shed!

I have not seen one of them b4!

I have seen the modular Q8 compressors that fit into the consoles but not actually a rackmount version. TRe` rare i guess. I have a mate with a couple of Q8 reverbs... very nice so he says. I think they are spring reverbs but still cool.

PEACE
Wiggy

[Drumsound]

I believe the lineage goes: Sphere-API- Quad-8. I think some of the people then went to Audiotronics, but I'm not sure.

[Tim Farrant]

A studio in town here had a Quad 8 Pacifica for many years. The power supply however was total s**t so I built a new one for it, improved the sound immensly. The eq was nice but lacked any Q controls and the curves were vary broad and this was a problem when you wanted a tight notch on something. As it got older, the electro caps all dried up and we were constanlty replacing them. The channel strips may have been OK sound wise, but the mix buss was a disaster, real noisy and I don't think it sounded that flash. The circuitry was a combination of a discrete Class A/B opamps and NE5543's. This particular desk was eventually sold and shipped to the US - perhaps still in use somewhere, but it did cut many NZ hit records !!

Tim
Buzz Audio

[Blackfoot]

Howdy I've got a Quad Eight 2082. I believe it's a early 70's model. It's set up for Quad mixing & monitoring. I use this desk for tracking & dialog /voiceover recording every day. It is a very solid desk with a very solid sound. I'm told it's a discreet signal path . I mainly use Schoeps mics but manage to get a large diaphragm sound. The desk has 2 ch EQ & 2 mon sends. It has 16 trk monitering.This desk was built to last. All channels & electronics are mounted on 1/4' aluminium plate with cabling looms the size of my arm.It was a six man lift to move the beast. It is not modular at all. It has a funky etched brown leather like finish with red round fader caps ( very 70's).It has a giant +-28v power supply.I've done a lot of A/B listening tests with boutique mic pre's & prefer the QE pre's to all but the most expensive. I think this desk is identical to one at Spectre Sound ( "The Steely Dan desk"). The desk is running well but I'm always on the lookout for more Quad Eight bits & pieces. There are blank panels on my desk with wiring & power for compressor modules.gates etc. I wanna fill em up. The desk didn't come with a full compliment of CN modules so I'm on the hunt for those also. Anyhow I'm a huge Quad Eight fan. jim blackfoot

[MIKEHARRIS]

and where does OLIVE fit into this lineage????

[Bob Olhsson]

Originally posted by MIKEHARRIS
and where does OLIVE fit into this lineage????

Hi Mike!

At least some of us credit Olive with the invention of vaporware although certainly Automated Processes' non-existant automation system ranks right up there with Olive. Olive certainly was the king of high-end offerings but I only remember hearing about one console ever being delivered and that IT didn't work well enough to ever go into service.

[Jay Kahrs]

What's OLIVE? Some kind of automation system that never saw the light of day?

[kdj123]

i have a quad 8 ( 8068 ??) i think... can anyone tell me what it may be worth and how i would go about selling it?

[De chromium cob]

A buddy of mine, Larry Devivo of Silvertone Mastering just finished an article on Quad8/ Electrodyne for Tape Op magazine. He interviewed John Hall for the piece along with other people involved with the boards over the years- We also have quite the collection going as he has a Q8 Pacifica in his studio along with a SWEEEET Electrodyne board he's refurbishing and various other modules. We shot out my Q8 310B's and Electrodyne 712s at my studio along side my APIs, Neve 1073s, 1079s, 1081s, Focusrite ISA115HD and a Summit TPA200B. Fan-freakin'-tastic sounding! Look for the article to come out in the near future.....

[Chad]

I have some realy good advertisements from 1973 for the OLIVE console. Ill try to scan and post them. Looks a lot like an api from the pics. A local guy in baltimore who often tracks in nashville was telling me abhout a guy he works with in nashville that has an olive, and when it works, he said its very nice.

[Paul Gold]

I'm a big fan. I worked on one about 15 years ago. It sounded great but was taken out of service because it needed to be kicked too often. I ended up with a bunch of mic pre/Eq modules. They are 312s. They sound super fabulous. They are very broad and not flexible. I use them with a Maselec for mastering. They are my color eq's. I just got some 24 position elma switches for some 712 seven band graphics. They use the same basic circuit as the 312. I can't wait to get those going. It's going to be a four channel eq for disk cutting.

[Mr. Fancy Pans]

Hi Gang,

The lineage goes like this Langevin, Sphere, Quad Eight & Langevin. All 4 were owned by the same parent company. Many of each's designs use the other's components. So basically they are very similar console design and the exact same in some cases. Later John was given a budget to design two different pre's for the Langevins.

The real jems are the older Q8's, Electrodynes & Sphere's (certain early Langevins also). These have John Halls propriety op-amp design in them. He sealed them in epoxy so they couldn't be back engineered and never did a schematic for them. Late one Sunday evening the sales guy who was Quad Eight (I wont give his name out) and the manager for Electrodyne copied all of Electrodynes schematics. Quad Eight the manufaturer was born. Edyne sued and won. At this that time the AM4 op-amp was born. It was Quads attempt to copy John Halls op-amp and he says they missed! But owning both designs they are very very close and I use both.

As Scott mentioned earlier we did a shoot out between all these modules and in the end it prompted my to sell my Neve BCM10 full of 1073's, that's how strong I felt about the Edynes & Quads! I'd say the sound sits right in between the Neve's and the API's and for the money they sit way above those two.

Check out the article that will be in Tape-Op, probably wont be out for a couple issues yet but it gives a lot of insight into the industry at that time.

Most people have all the stories screwed up. Deane Jensen inhertied (if you will) his most famous op-amp design, but that's another story and one I will probably never be able to tell.

BTW Paul, there's a mastering version of those Sphere graphic EQ's out there and I'm viciously trying to hunt then down. I own 8 of the mic-pre/graphic 712's now and am buying as many as I can find. My Electrodyne console is a 15x4 and is full loaded now! Also if anyone has any Quad CLS 22 compressors they want to sell. I'll take 'em for our Pacifica !!!

Larry DeVivo
www.silvertonemastering.com/stone

[thethrillfactor]

Originally posted by Mr. Fancy Pans
Hi Gang,

The lineage goes like this Langevin, Sphere, Quad Eight & Langevin. All 4 were owned by the same parent company. Many of each's designs use the other's components. So basically they are very similar console design and the exact same in some cases. Later John was given a budget to design two different pre's for the Langevins.


Larry DeVivo
www.silvertonemastering.com/stone

John Hall's design is the summing amp in the Inward Connection SBM-2 summing mixer.

[De chromium cob]

Originally posted by thethrillfactor
John Hall's design is the summing amp in the Inward Connection SBM-2 summing mixer.

As well as the DMS-3 monitor....Also great sounding. Its called the SPA-690 if I remember correctly from when I opened mine- But they are square and the older ones in the Edynes were round so I dont think theyre exactly the same.

[Mr. Fancy Pans]

Whats in the Inward Connections and the like is an update of the original Op-Amp about the size of an API Op-Amp. His ones in the early Quad Eights (MM61's & 71's) are square and about the same size as an API 2520 or a Jensen 990 also, his electrodyne designs are round.

And I meant to say...the linage goes like this "Electrodyne", Sphere, Quad Eight and some Langevin...

Larry DeVivo
www.silvertonemastering.com/stone

[isa215]

I was once offered a sphere console (not entirely sure what model) that used 'opamp labs' opamps (which you can still get new today) - they are semi-IC (ie some discrete components, some IC)...no idea how they sound - I decided not to investigate further.

[Zoesch]

Originally posted by isa215
I was once offered a sphere console (not entirely sure what model) that used 'opamp labs' opamps (which you can still get new today) - they are semi-IC (ie some discrete components, some IC)...no idea how they sound - I decided not to investigate further.

Oh my... you missed out!

[ToneLux]

Originally posted by Bob Olhsson
Quad-Eight was the second high-end recording console manufacturer in the United States that was started by some of the engineers from Electrodyne which had been the first. After several years as the leading console manufacturer, API took over most of their market because we all LOVED the 550 equalizer which was the first really first class console equalizer.

Deane Jensen left Quad-Eight to manufacture upgrade opamps and transformers for API consoles because many people considered the basic API signal path to be a significant step down from Quad-Eight.

Not exactly true. In the early days, Dean sold transformers for Riechenbach and came up with several ideas for mic transformers, which Reichenbach designed and built for him to sell. He did always say that API put him in the transformer business, but that was after API discontinued the use of the large square transformers, which still get big bucks. When API made the roound ones, that was Dean's cue. He later became the leader in transformer design. There has always been a rift between Jensen and Reichenbach, which I tend to lean towards Reichenbach's story. Dean developed many good transformers, but as an op-amp designer myself, I never liked the 990 design, as it had too many internal compensation things to keep it stable.

The 990 op-amp was never intended as a replacement for a 2520 except in the eyes of Dean. It did not sound very good with the steel core transformers. As consoles got bigger, they 990 was quieter because it liked to see a lower input resistance than the 2520, which made it slightly quieter for busses. Just as the 2520 sounded bad with the nickel core transformers, the 990 never really replaced 2520s except in a few select locations in a few consoles. Of course Sunset and places like that used the 990/nickel combo with great success.

I don't know of anyone ever saying that the Quad Eight signal path was better. If it was, I woould think that the Q8 consoles would be refurbed and sold as APIs are. They barely sell on Ebay in parts. They were good when the company was new, but quickly became not desirable.

I also know that some engineers left API to work for Q8, but with little success.

I have most of this documented in the records when I purchased API in 1985.

[Bob Olhsson]

Originally posted by ToneLux
Of course Sunset and places like that used the 990/nickel combo with great success.

"Sunset and places like that" are precisely who made API consoles a legend, at least on the west coast! None of the leading facilities used much of anything that was stock. Today's gear values aren't about what products really sounded like, it's all about who apparently used one. Back then nobody I knew ever wanted to get stuck using a Neve yet look at THEIR reputation today.

[ToneLux]

The East coast was pretty much stock.

There is a way that a designer can mix ICs and Discretes if he knows what they are doing. The critical parts are the Mic Pres, parts of the EQ and Summing. As long as the rest is at line level, you can make a great sounding product and save the customer money at the same time. It's all about tone.

The API op-amp/transformer set were designed to work together, as was the 990 and the nickel core transformers. The early days at Sunset had custom consoles (Bushnell, then DeMideo, then their own). The earlier ones were stock API line cards and EQs. The SS console had special versions of the API 550A with 990s and nickel, and used the twin servo 990 concepts internally.

The "LA" sound was pretty well divided between Neve and API, with a more leaning towards API, but in those early days, the API console frames and features were custom, but the electronics were stock. The electronic stuff didn't come until later.

[lclyman]

Tonelux..regarding your following quote:

"I don't know of anyone ever saying that the Quad Eight signal path was better. If it was, I would think that the Q8 consoles would be refurbed and sold as APIs are. They barely sell on Ebay in parts. They were good when the company was new, but quickly became not desirable."

Any Ebay listings for vintage 70's quad eight consoles or channel strips parted from them over the past year have not made it to the end of the auction time.

All were purchased privately offline and in some cases above the sellers initial buy it now prices.

I know as I bought one of the Q8 consoles and never even got close to buying some parted out channel strips that lasted on a recent Ebay listing for less than 24 hours. Someone just up and bought them all above the sellers listed price.

All I can tell you is my 70's Q8 Pacifica is still plenty good...!

Anyone wanna sell me some spare channel strips?

[europa78]

I have 2 channels of MM-310 pre which appears to be racked and built by Quad Eight in a 2 RU box with their logo screened on the outside. With the exception of the internal power supply, almost every component inside has a Quad Eight logo. Anyone have any Q8 outboard stuff?

P.S. the 3 band selectable EQ is incredibly soft and extremely useful. I guess no one was using Ebay that week.

[De chromium cob]

Originally posted by europa78
I have 2 channels of MM-310 pre which appears to be racked and built by Quad Eight in a 2 RU box with their logo screened on the outside. With the exception of the internal power supply, almost every component inside has a Quad Eight logo. Anyone have any Q8 outboard stuff?

P.S. the 3 band selectable EQ is incredibly soft and extremely useful. I guess no one was using Ebay that week.

Like Paul said, they're not very desirable, so you should let me take it off your hands.....