Quad 8 .... whats the skinny?

[ToneLux]

Originally Posted by Wiggy Neve Slut

Hi paul... just wandering if you are planning to release a Console of sorts other than your rackmounted range?

Cheers
Wiggy

Like this one?

[Seamus TM]

Originally Posted by ToneLux

Have you ever heard of the term "BEATING A DEAD HORSE"?

If you think that console is the greatest one in the world, then it is.

Now stop.

Gee whiz. I just thought it was funny because it was a movie, too...
I obviously walked into something scary, and I meant no harm.

[robot gigante]

So where in the lineup is the Virtuoso console?

Is it one of the earlier models or one of the later all IC ones? There's one in town that I could mix on if I wanted to.

[danasti]

I don't know if anyone has brought this up but I was just doing some googling on Ray Charles, Atlantic and Tom Dowd and ran into this... It has nothing to do with Atlantic and Tom but is later one when Ray met digital..

Do you remember if you used a particular preamp after the mic in Ray's vocal chain?

Yeah. Typically, for vocals, we would use a Universal Audio LA-2A. We'd use the mic pre off the mixing board. By that time, when I was doing most of his engineering, we'd switched from a Sound Workshop console to a Quad/Eight console. And the Quad/Eight had some improved mic pres that Ray really liked. Ike would always bring over mic pres to Ray, to try and have him switch over to an outboard mic pre, and we would A/B them, and the mic pre in the Quad/Eight board was always, as Ray would say, “Good enough.” In other words, the outboard pre wasn't spectacular enough to make him change. There was a difference between the Sound Workshop model and the Quad/Eight, because the Quad/Eight had 56 inputs. That's when we went into a 48-track digital recorder. We bought one of the first Studer digital tape recorders.

So he'd go from the mic into the Quad/Eight's preamp and then through the LA-2A?

Yes

http://emusician.com/tutorials/emusic_recording_genius/

[MJGreene Audio]

Originally Posted by danasti

I don't know if anyone has brought this up but I was just doing some googling on Ray Charles, Atlantic and Tom Dowd and ran into this... It has nothing to do with Atlantic and Tom but is later one when Ray met digital..




http://emusician.com/tutorials/emusic_recording_genius/

Well the last I remember hearing he was using a Quad Eight Westar. If the mic pre sounded good then I would venture a bet that Ray Charles would have sounded amazing on a Mackie. (Duh I know) The stock pre's in the Westar are a rather cheesy pre based on the old SSM 2015 mic pre chip. The same mic pre chip that was used in the TAC Magnum and Matchless. IMHO they are utter shite but in this case that would be talent overcoming the gear.

[danasti]

Originally Posted by MJGreene Audio

Well the last I remember hearing he was using a Quad Eight Westar. If the mic pre sounded good then I would venture a bet that Ray Charles would have sounded amazing on a Mackie. (Duh I know) The stock pre's in the Westar are a rather cheesy pre based on the old SSM 2015 mic pre chip. The same mic pre chip that was used in the TAC Magnum and Matchless. IMHO they are utter shite but in this case that would be talent overcoming the gear.

I don't know what the quad eight he had. It just says 56 input and they switched it with a sound workshop. This is all I see in it:

And the Quad/Eight had some improved mic pres that Ray really liked. Ike would always bring over mic pres to Ray, to try and have him switch over to an outboard mic pre, and we would A/B them, and the mic pre in the Quad/Eight board was always, as Ray would say, “Good enough.” In other words, the outboard pre wasn't spectacular enough to make him change.

From everything I've ever read about Ray Charles I've learned that he had a fantastic ear and he probably had a choice of quite a few mic pres...

[soupking]

You guys crack me up.

I just bought a pair of MM71's. I hear Neil Young ran a harvest in them or something.

I expect them to sound old "That way" cuz That happens what I want.

Have fun!

Cheers,
-soupking

[danasti]

Originally Posted by soupking

You guys crack me up.

I just bought a pair of MM71's. I hear Neil Young ran a harvest in them or something.

I expect them to sound old "That way" cuz That happens what I want.

Have fun!

Cheers,
-soupking

Soupking,

What do you mean "Neil Young ran a harvest in them or something" ???

Is that "That way" a song of his that you want to get a similar tone to by using the mm71?

What cracks you up, btw?

[orphanaudio]

If these are the 2 band eq/pre channels in brown formica going around LA recently, they were originally part of a custom QE console built for Neil Young.
Legend has it that "Crazy Horse" and "Harvest" were some of the albums recorded or mixed on this console.
We have recently helped restore and re-rack many of the channels for stand-alone operation and they still perform like champs.

Many hits have been tracked and mixed on (pre-Mitsubishi) QE consoles. Look at albums recorded during the 70,s and 80,s at studios like Shangrila Ranch, Village recorders, Motown West and many others where custom QE recording/mixing desks were installed.
Hits by Steely Dan, The Band, Bonnie Raitt, Bob Dylan, Elton John, Countless Motown hits, Stevie Wonder, etc................
These are just a few of the many studios and artists where Quad Eight figured very prominently in creating some of the most influential music in history.

Enloy your channels, they are signature pieces of the late 60,s and will definitely add to your recording pallete.


Ken Hirsch
Quad-Eight Electronics(tm) LLC
Quad Eight Electronics :: Under Construction | Quad Eight Home
Orphan Audio LLC
Orphan Audio:: Preservation And Restoration Of Classic Audio Equipment

"Education is the cure for everything"

Visit our classic console technical forums at:
Orphan Audio:: Preservation And Restoration Of Classic Audio Equipment or Orphan Audio :: Index

[orphanaudio]

Originally Posted by robot gigante

So where in the lineup is the Virtuoso console?

Is it one of the earlier models or one of the later all IC ones? There's one in town that I could mix on if I wanted to.

The Virtuoso was one of the Post-Mitsubishi consoles, and was built when the factory was located in Santa Clarita, Ca in the late 80,s.
It is IC based and has little relation to the classic QE discrete and hybrid designs of the 60,s, 70,s and early 80,s, although it was well designed and in fact luminaries such as John Hall were contributors during its design and construction.
The Virtuoso was aimed at the music recording/mixing market and shared much of its design with the Music, Film and TV post consoles built at QE during the same time period. (Westar, Filmstar, Screenstar)


Ken Hirsch
Quad-Eight Electronics(tm) LLC
Quad Eight Electronics :: Under Construction | Quad Eight Home
Orphan Audio LLC
Orphan Audio:: Preservation And Restoration Of Classic Audio Equipment

"Education is the cure for everything"

Visit our classic console technical forums at:
Orphan Audio:: Preservation And Restoration Of Classic Audio Equipment or Orphan Audio :: Index

[robot gigante]

Cool, thanks Ken.

I figured that might be the case.

[soupking]

Originally Posted by orphanaudio

If these are the 2 band eq/pre channels in brown formica going around LA recently, they were originally part of a custom QE console built for Neil Young.
Legend has it that "Crazy Horse" and "Harvest" were some of the albums recorded or mixed on this console.
We have recently helped restore and re-rack many of the channels for stand-alone operation and they still perform like champs.

Many hits have been tracked and mixed on (pre-Mitsubishi) QE consoles. Look at albums recorded during the 70,s and 80,s at studios like Shangrila Ranch, Village recorders, Motown West and many others where custom QE recording/mixing desks were installed.
Hits by Steely Dan, The Band, Bonnie Raitt, Bob Dylan, Elton John, Countless Motown hits, Stevie Wonder, etc................
These are just a few of the many studios and artists where Quad Eight figured very prominently in creating some of the most influential music in history.

Enloy your channels, they are signature pieces of the late 60,s and will definitely add to your recording pallete.

Thanks Ken, you're the one who racked them for me. (MP-24's)

They blend well with my v72's, and I hope to get another 2 mm-71 strips to match someday soon.

[orphanaudio]

Ah-Ha!

You're the one who came out to the Quad Eight lab in Simi Valley and got the first pair of MP-24,s with our new active Class-A DI.
They were built from LA-24 utility amps that came out of the famous Art Laboe console in Hollywood. It was also a chocolate brown console like Neil Young,s.
One amazing thing about that pre, is it can put out +32 into 150 ohms with less than .1%thd. It does have defineable color, but it's amazingly clean.

We still have a very limited number of MP-24,s left, if you know anyone who wants some.

If your MM-71,s are not yet racked, come on by and we can show you lots of options to pump those critters into full function recording strips.

[soupking]

Originally Posted by orphanaudio

Ah-Ha!

You're the one who came out to the Quad Eight lab in Simi Valley and got the first pair of MP-24,s with our new active Class-A DI.
They were built from LA-24 utility amps that came out of the famous Art Laboe console in Hollywood. It was also a chocolate brown console like Neil Young,s.
One amazing thing about that pre, is it can put out +32 into 150 ohms with less than .1%thd. It does have defineable color, but it's amazingly clean.

We still have a very limited number of MP-24,s left, if you know anyone who wants some.

If your MM-71,s are not yet racked, come on by and we can show you lots of options to pump those critters into full function recording strips.

Hey Ken,

That's me. The guy whose truck broke down in your driveway. Luckily I had you and my tech friend right on the spot. Talk about dumb luck.

Good to hear from you. I hope things are going well for you at QE. I might actually be interested in the MP-24's myself. Actually the first ones I had I bought from a producer by the name of Chris Ron...something or other. I don't actually have any mm-71's. I saw Dave over at Studio Electronics was selling some on eBay, but at had a few questions about them regarding width, racking, transformers, etc. I'm eventually going to get 2 more brown channels of the pres. I'm not sure if I'm going to go the full length with the EQ or not. Probably will, but I've got some debts to slay. Hopefully towards the end of the year I'll be shopping again. I need two more channels to round out 4 for recording drums. Either way, I'll be talking to you to rack them.

You're right, those LA-24 channels are incredibly clean, but they're not dry or dull by any means. They're like a sharper version of my v72's or something.

Take care,
-soupking

[RCM - Ronan]

I got a couple of those MM71s racked up. They are awesome sounding. To me they are a lot like my Pacificas with a bit of a vintage neve top. I am very happy with them.

[soupking]

Originally Posted by rcm

I got a couple of those MM71s racked up. They are awesome sounding. To me they are a lot like my Pacificas with a bit of a vintage neve top. I am very happy with them.

Those are some handsome channels.

[MJGreene Audio]

Originally Posted by rcm

I got a couple of those MM71s racked up. They are awesome sounding. To me they are a lot like my Pacificas with a bit of a vintage neve top. I am very happy with them.

You didn't by chance have Julio Campose do the engraving and chassis did you?

Ronin, Those look fantastic.

Michael Greene

[RCM - Ronan]

Originally Posted by MJGreene Audio

You didn't by chance have Julio Campose do the engraving and chassis did you?

Ronin, Those look fantastic.

Being a bit of an electronics idiot myself, I handed the whole project off to my tech who contracted some one else to do the engraving, so I am not sure.

[walth]

i'm looking at picking up some QE MM61/71/310, Electrodyne 7xx series, and some Sphere stuff. I just don't know which ones to get. There aren't many around so it's hard to test them out.

[Silvertone]

Originally Posted by rcm

I got a couple of those MM71s racked up. They are awesome sounding. To me they are a lot like my Pacificas with a bit of a vintage neve top. I am very happy with them.

Hi Ronan,

Those were made by Electrodyne and branded for Q8.

Don't these look familiar???

[bob katz]

Originally Posted by Bob Olhsson

Hi Mike!

At least some of us credit Olive with the invention of vaporware although certainly Automated Processes' non-existant automation system ranks right up there with Olive. Olive certainly was the king of high-end offerings but I only remember hearing about one console ever being delivered and that IT didn't work well enough to ever go into service.

I actually ran an API console with API automation throughout 1977. But if I recall correctly, we had to patch the automation signal into a new track each time as it was NOT run by SMPTE.

BK

[orphanaudio]

Originally Posted by Silvertone

Hi Ronan,

Those were made by Electrodyne and branded for Q8.

Don't these look familiar???

The first Quad Eight consoles were supposedly made with Electrodyne modules that had a "Q" engraved above the Electrodyne "E". Bud Bennet hand built quite a few audio mixers when he ran QE as a small consulting and custom film equipment design firm, some years before the company began officially building custom film dubbing consoles.
I know of nothing that survived from these small custom mixers, so this claim will be hard to prove. The Electrodyne opamps, internal levels and gain staging were very different from what QE built in their first full size consoles, although cosmetically and functionally they were very close to Electrodyne.

[orphanaudio]

Originally Posted by rcm

I got a couple of those MM71s racked up. They are awesome sounding. To me they are a lot like my Pacificas with a bit of a vintage neve top. I am very happy with them.

Ronin,

Good to see another Steve Morse Band Alumnus in town. I was fortunate enough to tour as front of house mixer with the Dregs and occsionally SMB from 1988 to the mid 90,s.

Hopefully your tech found some original QE line in and output transformers for your MM-71,s. They add a whole new dimension to their sound, and when properly set up, give them a clip point approaching +30dbm. If not, give us a buzz and we can get some to your guy with hookup docs and a few simple tricks to expand the MM-71 preamp capabilities without changing the original design.

Enjoy your QE toys.

[Silvertone]

Originally Posted by orphanaudio

The first Quad Eight consoles were supposedly made with Electrodyne modules that had a "Q" engraved above the Electrodyne "E". Robert Bud hand built quite a few audio mixers when he ran QE as a small consulting and custom film equipment design firm, some years before the company began officially building custom film dubbing consoles.
I know of nothing that survived from these small custom mixers, so this claim will be hard to prove. The Electrodyne opamps, internal levels and gain staging were very different from what QE built in their first full size consoles, although cosmetically and functionally they were very close to Electrodyne.

Hi Ken,

Not so hard to prove. I have modules from 3 different consoles (two MM61's being from the Hollywood Bowl console) branded Q8 that have all Electrodyne components inside! Two of my friend also have many of these modules from the Hollywood Bowl console as well. If you open up some of the MM71 or MM61 modules you will see Edyne transformers and cards. Some will have edyne A1000 or A2000 op amps and some have the Q8 AM3 op amps.

Besides when I wrote the article, Don King was working for Edyne at the time this was all going on and he's the one who told me of the "incident" that happened.

I should send you a copy of the fine CD that Don gave me detailing the history of these companies. In fact if it wasn't over an hour long I'd post it on my sight... come to think of it I might just do that anyway...

It begins..."Virginia, there were two Electrodynes, the first one...

A short aside, one year in the late 70's we were playing a Club in upstate NY called the Hullablew... in walks the Dixie Dregs to celebrate Steve Morse's birthday, needless to say we were up till 6AM parting the night away, it was a scene out of a rock and roll movie as the owner of the club had a pet tiger that roamed the room, there were half naked girls (and some totally), there was so much dope smoked and so much blow that night, it was crazy... I'm surprised I can actually remember it. It certainly was a different time then!

[orphanaudio]

Larry,

Would love to have pix (front and inside) for the historical section of the Orphan Audio website. It seems that Electrodyne and QE will forever be strangely intertwined.
Don King and I met for a quick lunch Tuesday to catch up. I see him at every AES and Sapphire meeting I can get to, but we never have time to talk. We ended up chatting for almost 3 hours at lunch. Every time we meet we seem to unravel or decode another odd chapter in console history. Its amazing how many people are claiming new developments and designs in their products that were actually created back in the day by Electrodyne, Melcor, Quad Eight, Western Electric, Bell Labs, etc...

[orphanaudio]

Originally Posted by Mumblesound

Yeah, that "Wall" album is the only one that sticks out, in my mind....

Oh, wait.. that was a movie, too, though.

Seamus,

Just to set the record straight on Floyd, at the risk of removing some mythical connection to QE gear. (truth is better than rumour unless you are a celebrity)

I recently spoke at length to James Guthrie (Pink Floyd FOH and Mixing engineer for several decades now as well as notable others, google his discography if you want to be impressed) and he does not recall any Floyd records done on QE gear.
Most all of the Floyd was recorded and mixed at Abbey Road, EMI, Air/London, Olympic (and a few others) and these studios were outfitted with Neve, EMI, Amek, Helios, and a very few SSL desks at the time.

I will not rule out the possibility that somewhere Floyd got engaged with a QE desk, But I want something other than heresay. Printed or photographic evidence would be best.

HOWEVER !!!!
James clued me in that London had several QE desks in the 70,s and one he remembers well (as a tape-op, assistant and early engineer) was a custom 3-band QE desk at Advision, London.

So 70,s bands like, Gentle Giant, Yes, The Who, Emerson Lake & Palmer, Elton John, Kate Bush, Eric Clapton, Camel, David Bowie, Aretha Franklin, producers like Geoff Downes, Kit Lambert and Eddie Offord would have worked their magic thru that desk.

Check this page for an impressive, but quite incomplete customer list. http://www.sound.co.uk/studiotv.html
(Yes, Pink FLoyd is on the list and I will check to see if the QE was there at the time)
You can also google Advision studio London to see what comes up. (quite a lot)

The Advision desk probably had the same MM-310 type eq and preamp as the bright orange Motown-West modules we are restoring and re-racking at the QE lab. Keep an eye on our upcoming QE website launch for product annoucements.



(PS: Sorry about that guy barking at you back in the thread, You stepped into the end of a gentlemanly discussion about classic american consoles that somehow got pushed the wrong way.)

[Seamus TM]

You see what I get for making bad jokes?
Thanks for the info, though, Ken.
I could have swore that I heard, read, dreamt, smelled that The Wall was mixed on two QE's strapped together.
Oh well.

BTW, it's good to hear from you.

Originally Posted by orphanaudio

Seamus,

Just to set the record straight on Floyd, at the risk of removing some mythical connection to QE gear. (truth is better than rumour unless you are a celebrity)

I recently spoke at length to James Guthrie (Pink Floyd FOH and Mixing engineer for several decades now) and he does not recall any Floyd records done on QE gear. Most all of the Floyd was recorded and mixed at Abbey Road, EMI, Air/London, Olympic and a few others and these studios were outfitted with Neve, EMI, Amek, Helios, and a very few SSL desks at the time.

I will not rule out the possibility that somewhere Floyd got engaged with a QE desk, But I want something other than heresay. Printed or photographic evidence would be best.

HOWEVER !!!!
James clued me in that London had several QE desks and one he remembers well (as a tape-op, assistant and early engineer) was a custom 3-band QE desk at Advision, London in the early 70,s.

Check this page for a good but incomplete customer list. http://www.sound.co.uk/studiotv.html
(Yes, Pink FLoyd is on the list and I will check to see if the QE was there at the time)
You can also google Advision studio London to see what comes up.

This desk probably had the same MM-310 type eq as the bright orange Motown-West modules we are re-racking at QE in Simi Valley.

So 70,s bands like, Gentle Giant, Yes, The Who, Emerson Lake & Palmer, Elton John, Kate Bush, Eric Clapton, Camel, David Bowie, Aretha Franklin, producers like Geoff Downes, Kit Lambert and Eddie Offord would have worked their magic thru that desk.

[Bluzzi]

Originally Posted by MJGreene Audio

Well the last I remember hearing he was using a Quad Eight Westar. If the mic pre sounded good then I would venture a bet that Ray Charles would have sounded amazing on a Mackie. (Duh I know) The stock pre's in the Westar are a rather cheesy pre based on the old SSM 2015 mic pre chip. The same mic pre chip that was used in the TAC Magnum and Matchless. IMHO they are utter shite but in this case that would be talent overcoming the gear.

The Magnum uses an SSM2016 which is not the same even if the numbers seem close!
Nothing meant other than a correction on what was used on the Magnum. The 2016 sounds way better than the 2015 or the 2017 for that matter.

jim

[Josh Hoisington]

I'm bumping this,

I developed a bit of an email relationship with Stephen Desper, who was the Beach Boys' staff engineer for a few years, late 60s-early 70s, and we talked a bit about the Beach Boys console that he helped design with Bud Bennett.

Here's what he said about it (and this was posted publically, so it's not like I'm sharing personal correspondence.):

"The consoles were built by Quad-8 (owned by Bud Bennet) but based on designs by Electrodyne (John Hall, engineer). The consoles were electrodyne modules re-worked by Quad-8 to meet my deadline. I needed all this equipment built within a month time-frame. I went from one console builder to another, but none could meet my time-table. Only Bud Bennet said “yes” to all my demands and he qot the contract. Under that contract, Quad-8 went from a two-person operation to a 65 person payroll. It put Quad-8 on the map and the company when on to build many fine consoles for motion picture studios and recording studios."

I thought that might contribute to this discussion, even though it was over...

There's also an AES journal about this system by Desper and Bennett, that is a nice overview.

Anybody know anything more about this? What would the input modules have been? This was '69.

[Silvertone]

Originally Posted by Josh Hoisington

I'm bumping this,

I developed a bit of an email relationship with Stephen Desper, who was the Beach Boys' staff engineer for a few years, late 60s-early 70s, and we talked a bit about the Beach Boys console that he helped design with Bud Bennett.

Here's what he said about it (and this was posted publically, so it's not like I'm sharing personal correspondence.):

"The consoles were built by Quad-8 (owned by Bud Bennet) but based on designs by Electrodyne (John Hall, engineer). The consoles were electrodyne modules re-worked by Quad-8 to meet my deadline. I needed all this equipment built within a month time-frame. I went from one console builder to another, but none could meet my time-table. Only Bud Bennet said “yes” to all my demands and he qot the contract. Under that contract, Quad-8 went from a two-person operation to a 65 person payroll. It put Quad-8 on the map and the company when on to build many fine consoles for motion picture studios and recording studios."

I thought that might contribute to this discussion, even though it was over...

There's also an AES journal about this system by Desper and Bennett, that is a nice overview.

Anybody know anything more about this? What would the input modules have been? This was '69.

Try This... Electrodyne Mixer used by Beach Boys

or this... Cinemag Audio Transformers - The History of Electrodyne Quad-Eight and Sphere

best,
Larry