Tom sizes
Old 11th November 2002
  #1
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Thread Starter
Tom sizes

What sizes are you recording these days and what would you get for a studio kit? I ordered a new DW kit friday and I am beginning to re-think the tom sizes.

The kit has a 12, 13 and 16 with 18 x 22 kick. . . thinking maybe 14 would be better or get a 10 as well as a 14. Normally I don't like that many toms but it may be better for studio kit. Not going to mount any on the kick if i can help it for isolation.

Anyone that really knows the DW kits . . . tom depths would be great to hear about as well.

Almost all rock and roll in here.
Old 11th November 2002
  #2
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I play a DW Collectors series kit, with 10, 12, 14, 16 inch toms. All suspended ( better resonance) and can use any combination to fit the gig / song / sound / mood / what have you. My personal config uses the 14 and 16 as "floor toms" if you will. Looking at your set up I would suggest going for 12, 14 , 16, as these sizes will make tuning a bit easier. As has been said by someone we all know many times before, your mileage may vary.........
Drop me a line to PM if you have questions on the DW's, I love em!! TommyD
Old 11th November 2002
  #3
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
My advice? Get as many toms as you can afford to because someone will use them at one time or another. My kit is 10, 12 and 14 and I regret not getting a matching 16" floor tom when my kit was still being made. Right now I'm looking for a lonley 16" floor tom to bring into the studio. Haven't found a decent one yet but I have seen a few Pearl Exports and similar stuff.

Lots of people may play a 4-piece kit but it's nice to have the option of going 10 and 14 or 12 and 16. Or if you have someone in who's used to having two floor toms it can really make a difference. I'd say it's tough to go wrong with 8, 10, 12, 14, 16 if you want all the bases covered. But, not too many people use an 8" tom. Mostly funk/fusion cats and the metal/progessive heads. As a player I'm not a fan of 13" toms but I know plenty of people that do like them. The typical 12, 13 setup places the tones too close together for me. I like more seperation in the notes.
Old 11th November 2002
  #4
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Jay,
I think you and I were posting at the same time, and I agree completely. 12 and 13 inch toms are too close together in their pitch range. If you have the afore mentioned tom sizes you can use ,ALL , 10" rack with 14" floor, 12" rack with 16" floor, etc, etc.
Basicly, the more options the better...... TommyD
Old 11th November 2002
  #5
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EduardoApolonia's Avatar
 

I am also going to order a drumset for my studio this week and
I have been checking some opinions.

And I ended with this setup:

2x 22" BDs
1 Tom 10"
1 Tom 12"
1 Tom 14"
1 Floor Tom 16"

I am not sure about the depth of the toms.

I have the Drumkit From Hell sample cd and the toms they recorded have the same depth as the diameter of the tom and it sure sounds very nice.

What are your opinions about this?

Thanks.
Old 11th November 2002
  #6
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Tommy . . that's what I am now thinking . . . get the 10,12 and use the 14 and 16 as "floors", suspended

What depths do you have? I heard the DW 16 x 13 is more "controled" in the studio then the deeper 16. You find this to be true?
Old 11th November 2002
  #7
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Knox,
That's absolutely correct. DW's "basic" if you will shell sizes are what they call "fast tom" sizes. Kinda in between traditional and power tom sizes. A good example would be for rack toms a traditional size would be 8x12 where as what was considered a power tom (popular in the eighties) would be 10x12 or 12x12!
DW's fast tom size is a 12x9. (As you might have gathered, this is for a 12' diameter drum). Anyway, my tom sizes are as follows;
8x10
9x12
11x14 (floor tom)
13x16 (floor tom)

And yes, I do find that the shallower floor tom depths give me much more control over the sound and are a helluva lot easier to tune!
And speaking of tuning drums, I HIGHLY recommend the DrumDial. Its basicly a very accurate tensionometer for checking that you have even tension at each lug on the drum head. The cool thing about this device is tha once you have a good sound out of your drums, check the tension on each lug (top AND bottom heads) and write it down. The next time you change heads, after you make certain they're seated properly you tune EACH lug to the average tension you previously noted and your drum is there!!!(Provided you use the same type of heads, that is) When I firstsaw this thing I thought it was just another drummers toy, but I'll share one of my experiences;
December, midwest, cold as shit and I've got the flu. Stiffy head, ears plugged up, I can't hear a damn thing. I get a call for a session, and unfortunately we don't have the Drum Doctors in K.C.(Miss those guys, used them all the time in LA) Anyway, Ichange my heads on all my drums, seat them, and tune the with the DrumDial. Stretch, stretch, and retune. Mind you, I can't hear pitch to save my soul. I do the session and my drums sounded amazing!

Anyway, sorry for the long winded post, but I hope this info helps all who are looking at kits, and definitely check out the DrumDial!
http://drumdial.com/
TommyD
Old 11th November 2002
  #8
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Rock is generally 12, 14, and 16". Haven't heard a 10" that I really liked.
Old 11th November 2002
  #9
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Carter Beauford, uses a 10" AND an 8"!! Can't bitch about THAT sound! Just gotta know how to tune em, and hit the RIGHT drums for the music you're playin'. TommyD
Old 11th November 2002
  #10
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I've got a Fibes 10" that sounds great. Anything below that sounds like a plastic hairspray nightmare. My toms are 10 12 and 14 with a rogue 16 floor added to the mix from time to time. The 20" Fibes kick is a monster.
Old 11th November 2002
  #11
Jax
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I agree with the other posts that 12 and 13" toms are too close in tone. Also agree that you should get as many tom sizes as possible. I have 8, 10, 12, 14, 16 and they cover all the bases for me . That is to say, my kit is not for client studio use, unless the drummer deserves to play them because he or she is really good. Doesn't happen at my studio very often.
Old 11th November 2002
  #12
Gear nut
 

I agree w/ the above also.

I just bought a DW kit last month (10,12,14,16 toms).

LOVE IT.

Very versatile.
Old 12th November 2002
  #13
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Thread Starter
I use the RhythmTech "ratchet-key" as opposed to the DrumDial. I tried the DrumDial once and it didn't do it for me, will have to give it another shot. The RhythmTech is cool because you set it and it gives equal tension across the skin.

Tomorrow I will change the order to the 10 and 14 on toms. I appreciate all of the input that you have all given. That will give 10,12 and 14, 16 "floors" which will be fine.

Funny thing is . . I don't even like toms that much. I always liked players that did more 'pick ups" on snares as opposed to toms, like the guy in Mellencamps old band.
Old 12th November 2002
  #14
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Yeah I agree too, always wonder why the 12,13,16 are normal standard. 10,12 and 16 make more sense.
I have a Pearl Birch kit 8,10,12,13 with 14 and 16 floors.
No one has ever set it up wiht all 6 toms. Well no one I let do it.
I have many setups with it. I did not go out looking for a large kit, it was fairly cheap S/H and I prefer Birch. I normally push the studio kit un less some one has better and can tune.
Having all the different toms helps otherwise someone could say well I have an 8" Tama and the hardware does not match so I will use the whole tama ut of tune kit.

I also have 4 snares but find the 3x13 pearl and 6.5x14 DW maple get used most, the two brass normally just sit there.
Old 12th November 2002
  #15
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i play 13 and 16 on my kit. 14 snare obviously. 22 kick.
Old 12th November 2002
  #16
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Drumsound's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by alphajerk
i play 13 and 16 on my kit. 14 snare obviously. 22 kick.
That's about the only time a 13" tom seems to work. I've found 13" toms hard to tune. It's hard to find the sweet spot. I can do it all day long on even diameter drums.
Old 12th November 2002
  #17
Jax
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Yup, me too.

Something about odd numbered measurements with drums... I've never had an odd drum that sounded as good as the even's, nor was it easier to tune. 11, 13, never sounded right.

Cymbals I find it's kind of the other way around. I like even sizes and I have a lot of good ones, but the most unique and cool sounding ones I have are odd sized.
Old 12th November 2002
  #18
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thats odd... i find it easier to tune my 13 than my 14. which is why its goes 13>16 instead of 14>16.
Old 12th November 2002
  #19
Jax
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odd

I'm sure great sounding odds are out there. Must be a Darwinian unnatural selection/astrological/numerical kind of voodoo finding the right one. But that's not out of place for you with yer 666 serial no.'s an' shit.

Wait... 666 is an EVEN #....

Old 14th November 2002
  #20
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
Quote:
Originally posted by alphajerk
thats odd... i find it easier to tune my 13 than my 14. which is why its goes 13>16 instead of 14>16.
And I figured it would be because you want more seperation between the tones. I've seen a bunch of old Ludwig and Rogers kits with a 13" and 16".
Old 14th November 2002
  #21
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
Quote:
Originally posted by Knox
Tommy . . that's what I am now thinking . . . get the 10,12 and use the 14 and 16 as "floors", suspended
I'd get floor toms on legs rather then suspended toms. The 14" and 16" will bounce around a lot and you'll need a nice heavy stand to make that work. Having legs will make them more stable. Especially the 16". The 14" can actually go either way depending on the depth but I'd never order a hanging 16".
Old 14th November 2002
  #22
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Thread Starter
I was wondering that myself Jay . . . but I asked some people and they said if I buy the right DW stand, it is solid and actually resonates better and has more isolation for studio use. Of course Bonham didn't have any problems with legs on his toms *lol*
Old 14th November 2002
  #23
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I use 14" and 16" suspended floor toms (DW) on their heavy duty dual tom stand ( Sorry, can't remember the model number) My playing has been described as "Spirited" ( read loud) at times and I've never had any problems with stability. I even have two cymbals on the same stand as well. As for the suspended versus traditional legs and resonace topic, I've had good results with both.
The theory on the suspended mount stuff in part is that more hardware yu bolt to the shell, the more you dampen the the shells resonance. Many of the custom drum shops are now offering what they describe as "low mass" (smaller) lugs, following this train of thinking.
For what it's worth, when recording a legged floor tom on a wooden floor I've gotten improved depth of tone and resonance by placing small pieces of foam rubber under the legs, isolating the drum from the floor. Just my early bird wisdom for the day, think I need more coffee TommyD
Old 14th November 2002
  #24
Gear nut
 

I've got the 14 & 16 on the heavy duty DW stand also. Works great.

One of the 'requirements' I had when picking out this set was NOT to have legs on a floor tom. MUCH more resonance without them.
Old 14th November 2002
  #25
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Thread Starter
Do you guys hear any difference in the ply DW over the natural stained? I was buying a stained kit but now I have a ply offered to me at a discount. Plus, I don't have to wait on the ply as it is in stock.
Old 14th November 2002
  #26
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chrisso's Avatar
 

Quote:
Originally posted by MMazurek
I've got the 14 & 16 on the heavy duty DW stand also. Works great.

One of the 'requirements' I had when picking out this set was NOT to have legs on a floor tom. MUCH more resonance without them.
Well the 'rims' fitting for suspended toms is much easier to use than the same companies leg unit. If you are looking for a true resonant tom sound I would recommend fitting 'rims' to all your drums. They seem to work great with DW hardware also. I've used many different tom sizes, all with 'rims' suspension fittings and I've never encountered excessive wobble. Don't worry about it is my advice.
The 13" and 16" tom set up is a 'classic' configuration, that's why you're seeing so many Ludwig and Gretsch kits with those toms.
I myself prefer 12, 13 and 16. I find a 14" rack tom slightly muddy.
It is in my opinion a matter of preferance what sizes you choose. Feel free to use whatever sizes get you off. I have no problem with anybody saying they prefer larger intervals or they prefer smaller sizes over bigger (or vise versa). I think any talk of odd sized drums being somehow inferior or difficult to use/tune is merely a matter of opinion and shouldn't be taken as fact.
Old 14th November 2002
  #27
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
Quote:
Originally posted by Knox
Do you guys hear any difference in the ply DW over the natural stained? I was buying a stained kit but now I have a ply offered to me at a discount. Plus, I don't have to wait on the ply as it is in stock.
I've had people say they hear a difference and other people say they can't. I'd probably get a stained kit just because I like the look better. But, I've had several well known drum makers/techs tell me that it doesn't make a difference in the sound. And for some reason I tend to trust Greg Kiplinger.
Old 14th November 2002
  #28
One with big hooves
 
Jay Kahrs's Avatar
Quote:
Originally posted by MMazurek
One of the 'requirements' I had when picking out this set was NOT to have legs on a floor tom. MUCH more resonance without them.
Personally I usually want less resonance from the floor tom. YMMV but they usually ring like a bitch and muddy things up. I like some tone but if it rings too easily or too long it becomes a problem. Plus, most companys have an iso system for floor tom legs.
Old 14th November 2002
  #29
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Fibes's Avatar
 

I'm with Jay on the Floor tom issue but...

I just put an Aquarian New Orleans--- head on my snare and love it. I was using their coated/textured head or a weatherking but man is it a good sound. I never liked the Evans' on it. The Slingerland is a different story.
Old 14th November 2002
  #30
Gear nut
 

Maybe it's just me, but it's easier to adjust resonance down than up.

(of course if I need a good THUD, I've got a set of TAMA's with deep shells to use also)
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