SSL Pre Advice Needed

[grooveagent]

Over the last few weeks I've been conducting a massive Pre shootout. My favourite thus far is the SSl Xlogic Channel with harmonic drive. It has a fat, in your face, mid range sound which is great for rock music.

As you're probably aware, they're quite expensive per pre ($2000 CDN). I'm assuming this has to do with the A/D conversion, EQ and limiting features. For the same price, I can get the Xlogic Alpha VHD which has 4 pres, each with harmonic drive control in 1U. I thought about getting the expandable Xlogic Xrack, but during the short time I had with it, I found that they were almost too coloured. What makes me second guess myself, is the fact that my favourite Xlogic channel and the Xlogic Xrack pre are derived from the same console (K series 9000). Maybe the harmonic drive is the key here?

Anyone have some insight to the matter?

Thanks in advance.

[Audionaut]

I love mixing on SSL consoles, but the pres? Somebody back me up on this, I've used SSL pres when I need a whole bunch of preamps (live drums)and we're short on time, but I've never defaulted to the console pres to do overdubs, vocals, gtr.
I simply don't get the allure of outboard SSL gear at all, aside from:
1) you already tracked most of a project on an SSL console and you need to match the sound elsewhere...or
2) You want to use their buss comp, which is quite tasty.

To me the Xlogic stuff is just really unappealing, like if MCI or soundcraft came out with multiple mic pres and channel strips...who cares.

The first thing I do when I'm in an SSL room is patch up the 1073's and API's. The last thing you'll hear me say is, "you can turn all the outboard off, I'm using the board pre's for the LVs and bass overdubs."

Am I way off base here?
Watch the MCI channelstrip fans come crawling out of the woodwork...

[allencollins]

I have to say I don't mind the ssl sound. I'm an 80's guy
after all. Most of my favorite 80's cd's were tracked and mixed on them.

Back in the 80's very very few engineers had a rack of outboard pres like all the
wannabe producer have today. I never knew of any enginners who had outboard pre's in the mid 80's.

I haven't personally heard the new SSL racked pre's but I'll say 1 thing, I'd use a racked pair of channels from and old E series before I'd use a friggin Chandler TG or germanium that's for damn sure.

Bottom line is If you like em buy em. They have their own character. If they work for your music do it. Don't get caught up in this foolish vintage chandler hype that everyone going to be dealing you.

[mattzen]

I just got the ssl xlogic alpha vhd 4 channel box and i have to say i really like it. for me, i find the coloration to be quite pleasing and useful. i'm a composer that has a need for a lot of pres because i like to have all of my instruments and amps miced up and ready to go as i write and record.

it's really fun and special to sit here and play electric guitar and use the combination of input gain, output volume and vhd knob to help to dial in a sound. i'm also using it on kick and snare and i am liking the bigness/thickness of it (ssl pre). i have my overheads (gefell mt71s) going through a cleaner pre (sytek) and the combination works well for me.

i know ssl may not be historically known for their pres but this box, 4 pres + DIs + lots of color variations, for the money is a really cool addition to the available products out there and is a total winner for me. give it a listen before you judge. i did and i bought it!

[grooveagent]

Originally Posted by mattzen

I just got the ssl xlogic alpha vhd 4 channel box and i have to say i really like it. for me, i find the coloration to be quite pleasing and useful. i'm a composer that has a need for a lot of pres because i like to have all of my instruments and amps miced up and ready to go as i write and record.

it's really fun and special to sit here and play electric guitar and use the combination of input gain, output volume and vhd knob to help to dial in a sound. i'm also using it on kick and snare and i am liking the bigness/thickness of it (ssl pre). i have my overheads (gefell mt71s) going through a cleaner pre (sytek) and the combination works well for me.
it!

The funny thing is, I didn't like the Xrack pre at all. It sounded too ... metallic ... for me. One day I thought i'd give the alpha channel a try, and I was pleased with the results - particularly for acoustic guitar or any other source that had significant mid range content. The harmonic drive feature added that extra zing and sparkle in the mids. If there was no harmonic drive, I probably wouldn't have liked it so much.

I'm not so sure that they're good for vocals though. I might use an API for that. It goes to show you that there is no right answer. There are different pres for different situations as well as different converters for different types of music. There are too many variables (instruments, mics, room acoustics, pres, converters, audio engines, monitors, your ears) involved to make a general statement for any type of gear.

You're right. The bottom line is to listen for yourself and make a decision based on that.

[Audionaut]

There's always somebody that has to say "listen for yourself"
dfegadlistening
Nowadays it's all about the LED metering and sweet retro knobs!

[Dyer Maker]

Originally Posted by allencollins

I'd use a racked pair of channels from and old E series before I'd use a friggin Chandler TG or germanium that's for damn sure.
.

Give the Chandler thing a rest. Its was trite and stupid when Zaza was doing this kind of stuff and is no more entertaining when you do it.

[allencollins]

Originally Posted by Dyer Maker

Give the Chandler thing a rest.

I sure wish you guys would give it a rest. It's getting pathetic
Those units suck plain and simple. I wish you all would quit pushing them on folks
who are looking for a big contemporary sound. They sound like 1967. We are not all stuck in the past. At least not that far back

Chandler, yawnfuuck

[oceantracks]

Originally Posted by allencollins

I sure wish you guys would give it a rest. It's getting pathetic
Those units suck plain and simple. I wish you all would quit pushing them on folks
who are looking for a big contemporary sound. They sound like 1967. We are not all stuck in the past. At least not that far back

Chandler, yawnfuuck

What is a "big contemporary sound" ? Most of the "contemporary" engineers and artists I know are singing into vintage Neumanns, using tube pres or early Neves, and ....God forbid....many are recording to tape. Even rappers look for "non AI 87s", as if it matters. Even you are admiring an SSL circuit from decades ago.

Contemporary is a state of mind...Allen, but ignorance is something that just wears on everyone's nerves.

[Jim@SSL]

Back to topic...... the 4 channel VHD Preamp rocks my world. Proper flexible - I often use it on line-level signals to use the VHD as an insert effect too.

[mattzen]

used it today on my '69 Rhodes with the VHd knob at 3 o'clock and it sounded fantastic. I really dig this box.

[sonicdefault]

Originally Posted by oceantracks

Contemporary is a state of mind...

This is so true. It has been said that, the more things change, the more things stay the same.


We shouldn't embrace the things of the past simply for the sake thereof... But embracing the good things of the past... now there's something important. If we don't include things and ideas from the past that make sense, are we really improving anything? The answer is no, because improvement is a building process which relys on things we've learned, and things that work.




-SD

[allencollins]

Originally Posted by oceantracks

What is a "big contemporary sound" ? Most of the "contemporary" engineers and artists I know are singing into vintage Neumanns, using tube pres or early Neves, and ....God forbid....many are recording to tape. Even rappers look for "non AI 87s", as if it matters. Even you are admiring an SSL circuit from decades ago.

Contemporary is a state of mind...Allen, but ignorance is something that just wears on everyone's nerves.

Back in like 1995 I remember listenting to some cd's recorded in the 80's
I remember laughing at the amount of reverb they used.

I think in 2017 we're all gonna look back and laugh at how bad everthing sounds now cuz of all this vintage for the sake of vintage everyone is using. I listen now and I thinkmuch of it sounds bad. Over compensating for the lack of analog tape is all.

Also No one is calling you ignorant for using a chandler TG, maybe just misguided.
You shouldn't put youself down like that. I don't think your ignorant at all.

Contemporary? Maybe like a Grace or the original Great river MP-2MH
the new ssl stuff is not the same as the 80's stuff atleast from what I read
so Im not looking back

[lowfreq33]

Waitaminute... has anyone ever seen Allen and Zaza on the forum at the same time?

[lowfreq33]

Back to the topic... I've never been blown away by the SSL pre's either, I think they're perfectly adequate, but given other options I almost always choose to go with API or whatever. I haven't tried the VHD pre's though, so I wouldn't rule that out.

[allencollins]

Originally Posted by oceantracks

What is a "big contemporary sound" ? Most of the "contemporary" engineers and artists I know are singing into vintage Neumanns, using tube pres or early Neves, and ....God forbid....many are recording to tape. Even rappers look for "non AI 87s", as if it matters. Even you are admiring an SSL circuit from decades ago.

Contemporary is a state of mind...Allen, but ignorance is something that just wears on everyone's nerves.

Back in like 1995 I remember listenting to some cd's recorded in the 80's I remember laughing at the amount of reverb they used and how dead all the drums sounded

I think in 2017 we're all gonna look back and laugh at how bad everything sounds now cuz of all this vintage for the sake of vintage everyone is using. I listen now and I thinkmuch of it sounds bad. Over compensating for the lack of analog tape is all.

The bottom line is song writing was better in the 60/70's. The gear from that era is not going to make todays' songs better. But I think many folks use chandlers and other vintage gear thinking it's suddenly going to inject the mojo of a pinkfloyd or the whitealbum. It just aint gonna happen. No matter how many chandlers or neve's you use on a nickelback record it is not going to make their songs good or the band sound good. In fact it makes it sound worse

In their era the Beatles and floyd used contemporary gear. Was that just a a 'state of mind'? no it was utilizing the modern technology to the fullest.

Also No one is calling you ignorant for using a chandler TG, maybe just misguided. You shouldn't put youself down like that. I don't think your ignorant at all.

Contemporary? Maybe like a Grace or the original Great river MP-2MH. The new ssl stuff is not the same as the 80's stuff atleast from what I read.

you use your chandlers. Im going for a different less predictable sound. You should let this guy do the same. If he likes the ssl sound so be it. I like it too

move on. the 60's was over 35 years ago. We should try to be different not live in the past

[oceantracks]

Originally Posted by allencollins

Back in like 1995 I remember listenting to some cd's recorded in the 80's I remember laughing at the amount of reverb they used and how dead all the drums sounded

I think in 2017 we're all gonna look back and laugh at how bad everything sounds now cuz of all this vintage for the sake of vintage everyone is using. I listen now and I thinkmuch of it sounds bad. Over compensating for the lack of analog tape is all.

The bottom line is song writing was better in the 60/70's. The gear from that era is not going to make todays' songs better. But I think many folks use chandlers and other vintage gear thinking it's suddenly going to inject the mojo of a pinkfloyd or the whitealbum. It just aint gonna happen. No matter how many chandlers or neve's you use on a nickelback record it is not going to make their songs good or the band sound good. In fact it makes it sound worse

In their era the Beatles and floyd used contemporary gear. Was that just a a 'state of mind'? no it was utilizing the modern technology to the fullest.

Also No one is calling you ignorant for using a chandler TG, maybe just misguided. You shouldn't put youself down like that. I don't think your ignorant at all.

Contemporary? Maybe like a Grace or the original Great river MP-2MH. The new ssl stuff is not the same as the 80's stuff atleast from what I read.

you use your chandlers. Im going for a different less predictable sound. You should let this guy do the same. If he likes the ssl sound so be it. I like it too

move on. the 60's was over 35 years ago. We should try to be different not live in the past

The point you are missing is that people are using things that they LIKE THE SOUND of, and the overwhelming majority of people seem to LIKE THE SOUND of things are not always the "latest and the greatest.' They are not misguided, they are using their own ears. You may add to your classical collection with modern composers, but you don't replace Beethoven and Mozart because they are old....

TH

[allencollins]

Originally Posted by oceantracks

The point you are missing is that people are using things that they LIKE THE SOUND of, and the overwhelming majority of people seem to LIKE THE SOUND of things are not always the "latest and the greatest.' They are not misguided, they are using their own ears. You may add to your classical collection with modern composers, but you don't replace Beethoven and Mozart because they are old....

TH

Im not missing anything. I know you guys like it. And I DON'T so please quit
convincing me I should. I was simply endorsing the ssl and not a chandler
what don't you understand?

[chandlersonic]

Originally Posted by allencollins

Im not missing anything. I know you guys like it. And I DON'T so please quit
convincing me I should. I was simply endorsing the ssl and not a chandler
what don't you understand?