Which sounds better PCM 70 or PCM 80?

[Karloff70]

Originally Posted by Dirty Halo

Remember, the PCM 70 has "that" sound because the hardware, converters and all are from the 480L family... it's more than just algos and programs like "Tiled Room."

Even if you can program the same algos, it won't have that classic Lexicon sound (if that's what you want, which is cool... sort of like picking up a "real" Strat and going "ah yeah, THAT'S why these are classics!").

-andrews

Oh, the answer to which is better, the PCM 70 or newer 80? The PCM 70 hands down (reason & context: None. My opinion)

+1 !!

Tiled room and Rich Chamber are sweet things! Like the man says, makes you go 'Ah, there it is!'. Some of the chorus comes in handy on occasion too.....

And the thing isn't really noisy in a problematic way, you just have to crank the output page to +12 and hey presto.

The PCM 80 sounds classy (=read expensive) I guess, yet to me totally boring. Kinda Celine Dion......

[philosi]

In my experience there are two types of Lexicon reverbs.

Great:
PCM 42
PCM 70
224
480L

And the other type:
PCM 60
PCM 80
PCM 90
200
300
960

The other day I patched two PCM 42's into a pair of MXR auto flangers, and my partner walked in and said "oh, you made a Vortex"

[Animus]

Originally Posted by RobJB06

Yes, the "Tiled Room" preset was in the PCM80, but the guy above mentioned it doesnt sound like the PCM70. I havent played with a PCM80.
I did have a PCM91 (but sold it) it sure doesnt sound anywhere near as good as a early PCM70 or Lexicon 480L. The 91 sounds metallic and cold. The PCM70 and 480L sound lush and warm.

It seems the classic warm rich sounding Lexicons are 200/ 0224/ 224X/ 224XL/ PCM70 and 480L. Dont know about the PCM60, never tried one, but i think it fits into this category also.

The later, Lexicon 300, PCM80/810, PCM90/91 onwards all sound more clean and "modern" without the warmth of the early models.

I wonder if its all down to those Burr Brown A-D and D-A converts? All those old units use them. Dont know what converters were used in the 300 onwards..

Id love it if someone could take 5 minutes to jot down the settings for that Tiled Room preset, ill dial it into my 224X

I had the PCM70 for awhile and sold it. I thought it was cold, clangy, metallic. grainy. I much preferred the PCM90 or better yet Nuverbs.

[Karloff70]

Originally Posted by Animus

I had the PCM70 for awhile and sold it. I thought it was cold, clangy, metallic. grainy. I much preferred the PCM90 or better yet Nuverbs.

It is grainy. Really nicely so......

Don't know how you figure it's cold though.....

In agreeance with the 'two types of lexicon' theory above...!

480,224,PCM70,42.....

[TTatman]

Nice, tight, rhythm gtr room from a PCM-60:

Type: Room
RT60: 1st button from left.
Size: 2nd button from left.
Contour: Bass


Catamount Recording

[seanmccoy]

Originally Posted by philosi

In my experience there are two types of Lexicon reverbs.

Great:
PCM 42
PCM 70
224
480L

And the other type:
PCM 60
PCM 80
PCM 90
200
300
960

This is interesting because the PCM60 was touted as a preset version of the 224, and the 300 is supposed to be a single-engine 480L. Is the hardware radically different enough on these boxes to undo the magic and make this untrue?

[seancostello]

Originally Posted by Bob the V

I have 3. something software but before the "upgrade" I wrote down all the settings on the presets I liked (including the Tiled Room). I was able to create the same sounds with this information.

I know this is an ancient thread, but it is worth a try: Would you be willing to share the preset settings for Tiled Room? Or, does someone else out there have a PCM70, that is willing to write down the settings and share them?

Thanks,

Sean Costello

[Hammer Mark]

Originally Posted by RABE

thanks for all the replys! Is there a way to upgrade or "downgrade" the software on a PCM 70 from 1.0 to 2.0 or the orther way 'round... from 3.0 to 2.0?

-j

Just program the version 2 parameters into the user registers -- this will give you the best of both. If you have access to a version 2 unit, you can transfer via MIDI from one to the other -- this is described in the manual which is still available as a PDF from Lexicon.

[Hammer Mark]

Originally Posted by seancostello

I know this is an ancient thread, but it is worth a try: Would you be willing to share the preset settings for Tiled Room? Or, does someone else out there have a PCM70, that is willing to write down the settings and share them?

Thanks,

Sean Costello

I think this was done in another thread on the PCM70. If you can't find it, PM me.

[seancostello]

Originally Posted by Hammer Mark

I think this was done in another thread on the PCM70. If you can't find it, PM me.

I think I found the info. Thanks for the tip. (Oh, and if this is the same Mark Hammer from DIY Stompboxes, !)

Program 4.2

0.0 Mix 100% Wet
0.1 Fx Adj +0 dB
0.2 Soft Knob 0
0.3 Size 8.5M
0.4 Gate Off
0.5 Pdelay 4ms
0.6 HC 10.0 kHz
0.7 Decay Opt On
0.8 Not Available
0.9 Tiled Room
1.0 RT Low .78S
1.1 RT Mid .62S
1.2 XOver 3.41 kHz
1.3 RT HC 9.02 kHz
1.4 RTL Stop .06S
1.5 RTM Stop .06S
2.0 Diffusion 35
2.1 Attack 0
2.2 Definition 51
3.0 LVL Mst 0
3.1 L1 Rfl -4.0dB
3.2 L2 Rfl off
3.3 L3 Rfl off
3.4 R1 Rfl -4.0dB
3.5 R2 Rfl off
3.6 R3 Rfl off
4.0 Dly Mst 0
4.1 L1 Rfl 1.27 mS
4.2 L2 Rfl 0.00 mS
4.3 L3 Rfl 0.00 mS
4.4 R1 Rfl 3.64 mS
4.5 R2 Rfl 0.00 mS
4.6 R3 Rfl 0.00 mS

[Pitherz]

To refresh it, I can buy pcm 70 or pcm 80 but I've got LXP-15 II with software 2.0, there is also TILED ROOM program, is it same quality or just similiar or much worse to pcm 70 ?! I will be grateful for any info.
By the way, LXP-15 II has got great prog called 2 Tap Detune which really killer for snare (with own mods) ... Thanks !

[Ben B]

PCM-70 = Noisy.

-Ben B

[ray dsr]

Originally Posted by Fletcher

the "Tiled Room" that is in 2.2 is worth the price of admission alone... for some dumbassed reason they didn't put that program in 3.0 or in the PCM-80.

Not true.

"Tiled Room" is the only reason I've held onto my PCM-80. I use it on nearly every mix.

[theblotted]

Originally Posted by ray dsr

Not true.

"Tiled Room" is the only reason I've held onto my PCM-80. I use it on nearly every mix.

but sounds different from the Tiled Room in PCM70. it has its uses nevertheless.

[Pitherz]

Looks like there's a many Lexicon issues with Tiled Room program ...
In this thread was written that PCM 70 has got more warm this program than PCM 80, which is more surgical.
Anyone compare Tiled Room in PCM 70 and Tiled Room in LXP 15 II ?!
Thanks !

[theblotted]

Originally Posted by Pitherz

Looks like there's a many Lexicon issues with Tiled Room program ...
In this thread was written that PCM 70 has got more warm this program than PCM 80, which is more surgical.
Anyone compare Tiled Room in PCM 70 and Tiled Room in LXP 15 II ?!
Thanks !

FWIW, i used to have a LXP15-II. the halls were pretty much the only usable things in that thing. but once i got the PCM80, i sold it.

i didn't, however, get the Audio Upgrade/Jim Williams mod on it. you may wanna entertain that possibility.

[ray dsr]

Originally Posted by theblotted

but sounds different from the Tiled Room in PCM70. it has its uses nevertheless.

I use a Bricasti M7 and a Demeter spring with some analog delays, but I still come back to the PCM 80 for the "Tiled Room" all the time.

[Pitherz]

Thanks a lot my friend for info ! I've got also KAWAI RV-5 and ENSONIQ DSP PRO. ENSONIQ is not for tracking , it changes sound a lot and KAWAI is clean and almost transparent. Thanks ! Maybe I will tempt for PCM 80. On ebay is PCM 70 now but with software 3.0.

Originally Posted by theblotted

FWIW, i used to have a LXP15-II. the halls were pretty much the only usable things in that thing. but once i got the PCM80, i sold it.

i didn't, however, get the Audio Upgrade/Jim Williams mod on it. you may wanna entertain that possibility.

[Coldbricks]

The PCM70 sounds fantastic, and I have used them for literally everything, including guitar rigs. I find it is very realistic sounding, allows many options, and in general has a very classic sound to it. I bought mine used from a used studio out of LA. I had it worked on by Jim Fabiano for a better output (cleaner) and just a general inspection. I have a version 2. I believe it is 2.2. Anyway, it has tiled room and sounds wonderful.

The biggest complaint about the PCM70 (if there really is any) is that the user interface is a bit of a disaster by today's standard. I have a block diagram of the unit on the wall so I can reference that, but it is true: compared to 'modern' newer units, it is not as easy to use. Though I personally think that is a crock of shit, because anyone who can hook up an advanced effects unit properly can read some basic instruction on how to navigate menus, but hey, thats just me...and of course, a lot of people feel anything <>V2 is worthless. This might be totally true, but since i have only used version 2s, I don't know about this...

The only other complaint that a lot of people seem to have (wow, I am a ball of fun this morning, aren't I?) is that the input to the PCM70 is mono, i.e., one plug, and no stereo. Is this a big deal? Well that depends on what you want to do. If you use it as a aux effect this would be no problem, and it's actually cool because you can send one track to the unit and return with the left and the right, so as to 'make a track stereo' with the reverb. On the bad site, there is no good way to run a mix through this if you ever want to do something like that, or if you have stereo overheads or something like this, you have to be creative with it, as you cant just plug them in. But all aside, when it comes down to it, the unit is one of the best effects I have heard.

PCM70 all the way.

[princeplanet]

Originally Posted by seancostello

I think I found the info. Thanks for the tip. (Oh, and if this is the same Mark Hammer from DIY Stompboxes, !)

Program 4.2

0.0 Mix 100% Wet
0.1 Fx Adj +0 dB
0.2 Soft Knob 0
0.3 Size 8.5M
0.4 Gate Off
0.5 Pdelay 4ms
0.6 HC 10.0 kHz
0.7 Decay Opt On
0.8 Not Available
0.9 Tiled Room
1.0 RT Low .78S
1.1 RT Mid .62S
1.2 XOver 3.41 kHz
1.3 RT HC 9.02 kHz
1.4 RTL Stop .06S
1.5 RTM Stop .06S
2.0 Diffusion 35
2.1 Attack 0
2.2 Definition 51
3.0 LVL Mst 0
3.1 L1 Rfl -4.0dB
3.2 L2 Rfl off
3.3 L3 Rfl off
3.4 R1 Rfl -4.0dB
3.5 R2 Rfl off
3.6 R3 Rfl off
4.0 Dly Mst 0
4.1 L1 Rfl 1.27 mS
4.2 L2 Rfl 0.00 mS
4.3 L3 Rfl 0.00 mS
4.4 R1 Rfl 3.64 mS
4.5 R2 Rfl 0.00 mS
4.6 R3 Rfl 0.00 mS

I have entered these into my PCM70 with v3 software. I like and use this sound, mainly for drums or anything than need ER thickening. Just wondering if this sounds identical to the v2.2 sound. Also, do peeps toy with the predelay and the spread of the ER's? Wouldn't mind hearing about your preferences, sometimes I feel the ERs are too close...

[Pitherz]

Big Thanks for the answer ! I use LXP-15 II for tracking and it has got few good programs for my ears mainly Stage Reflex with small own mods gives bigger sound for track to my ears, I like it more than KAWAI RV-4. I think PCM 70 will not be for me as I need it for tracking.

Do You think I can get even better sound with PCM 80 than LXP-15 II?!

Thanks a lot !

Originally Posted by theblotted

FWIW, i used to have a LXP15-II. the halls were pretty much the only usable things in that thing. but once i got the PCM80, i sold it.

i didn't, however, get the Audio Upgrade/Jim Williams mod on it. you may wanna entertain that possibility.

[jayfrigo]

Everyone talks about the reverbs in the PCM70, but the six delay lines are one of the coolest features of the box, and people often ignore them to use the reverbs. You can get monster choruses and multi-taps out the 70. It was not designed to be primarily a reverb. Early in the design they were thinking it was just going to be a monster delay unit. The reverb came later. It's got some cool 'verb programs (tiled room, rich chamber, brass plate), but if that's all you use, you're missing out. And yes, I'd pick a 70 over an 80, no question.

[Pitherz]

Thanks a lot !

Originally Posted by Sounds Great

No way, i.m.o. LXP series is not anywhere in the same league as the PCM70.

[Dissdnt_penguin]

Found a link with V.2 and V.3 SysEx dumps for those interested.

PCM 70 Ver 2 & Ver 3 SysEx Preset Registers. - signaltonoize.com

They also have impulse responses of PCM70 and other classic boxes you can convolve with your tracks to emulate their FX. Probably as close to the originals as most plugins, but with that in mind you can try them while you save for the real thing

Enjoy!
DP

[Karloff70]

Originally Posted by Ben B

PCM-70 = Noisy.

-Ben B

And again, only if you don't know to crank the output page to +12.......

[LonDonsen]

There is a MIDI editor from MOTU called Unisyn! A great working tool to edit your PCM 70 in a more convenient way! I tried to find something similar for Sounddiver but couldn't find it!

MOTU.com - Profiles