PCM 42 for main vocal: How do you use it ?

[sage691]

Novice question.

I got one of these recently and really love it as a delay for electric guitar. But I keep hearing from people that it also has been widely used on main vocal for many famous records.

Is it mainly used as a pre-delay for a mono vocal with a very quick setting, and then fed to a reverb ? I know there are probably hundreds of different ways to use it, but I'm curious to know about how it is used as part of a chain to get that really big, up front vocal sound (in/out settings, delay times, etc ?) Do you simply (with a console) insert it on the main vocal track, and then feed the reverb processor via an aux send ?

[bitman]

Originally Posted by sage691

Novice question.

I got one of these recently and really love it as a delay for electric guitar. But I keep hearing from people that it also has been widely used on main vocal for many famous records.

Is it mainly used as a pre-delay for a mono vocal with a very quick setting, and then fed to a reverb ? I know there are probably hundreds of different ways to use it, but I'm curious to know about how it is used as part of a chain to get that really big, up front vocal sound (in/out settings, delay times, etc ?) Do you simply (with a console) insert it on the main vocal track, and then feed the reverb processor via an aux send ?

Bump.

Tell us slutz!

[ToddF]

I would think the main use is it is fed with an aux from the vox and then returned 100 delay to the console to mix in with the dry vox.

1/4 notes, 1/8 notes, slapback, appropriate feedback, whatever sounds best.

Peace, Todd

[Benmrx]

Predelay gets my vote

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by sage691

Is it mainly used as a pre-delay for a mono vocal with a very quick setting, and then fed to a reverb ?

That was probably something i wrote in a thread long ago. I still do that if there are enough PCM 42's around(like to an EMT Plate or an EMT 250). Usually though i save them for other "chorus/delay" type duties and use some 1300S i have instead for predelays instead. They are also my favorite delays for pseudo stereo sources.

I like having a little ping pong delay/chorus on lead vocals and (2) PCM 42's work great for this.thumbsup

[sage691]

Originally Posted by thethrillfactor

That was probably something i wrote in a thread long ago. I still do that if there are enough PCM 42's around(like to an EMT Plate or an EMT 250). Usually though i save them for other "chorus/delay" type duties and use some 1300S i have instead for predelays instead. They are also my favorite delays for pseudo stereo sources.

I like having a little ping pong delay/chorus on lead vocals and (2) PCM 42's work great for this.thumbsup

OK Thrill,

Thanks, but I don't have 2 of them. I would assume to get the stereo ping-pong effect that you are feeding 2 PCM 42s via a stereo aux send if it is a mono vocal , and then returning to 2 channels on the console panned hard L & R ?

Or, what about inserting a PCM 42 on 1 of a stereo pair of vocals, and using it for that AW input limiter trick ? I read about how that's done on electric guitar, but haven't found anything here on GS concerning vocals.

Just a novice here trying to sponge in some ideas on how to go about using this thing with my console.

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by sage691

OK Thrill,

Thanks, but I don't have 2 of them. I would assume to get the stereo ping-pong effect that you are feeding 2 PCM 42s via a stereo aux send if it is a mono vocal , and then returning to 2 channels on the console panned hard L & R ?

Or, what about inserting a PCM 42 on 1 of a stereo pair of vocals, and using it for that AW input limiter trick ? I read about how that's done on electric guitar, but haven't found anything here on GS concerning vocals.

Just a novice here trying to sponge in some ideas on how to go about using this thing with my console.

If you only have one than i would just use a different delay for lets say the left side and the PCM 42 on the right. I do this once in a while and its the right thing that works. Or use the PCM 42 on the right side slightly off center and plate that's predelayed longer on the left. I kinda like a slap back plate that moves from a delay on the left to a plate on the right. I mean just use your imagination.

Or the easy thing is to use it as a chorus effect panned slightly off center.

For the "AW trick" on a vocal i would probably use something else.

[sage691]

Originally Posted by thethrillfactor

If you only have one than i would just use a different delay for lets say the left side and the PCM 42 on the right. I do this once in a while and its the right thing that works. Or use the PCM 42 on the right side slightly off center and plate that's predelayed longer on the left. I kinda like a slap back plate that moves from a delay on the left to a plate on the right. I mean just use your imagination.

Or the easy thing is to use it as a chorus effect panned slightly off center.

For the "AW trick" on a vocal i would probably use something else.

Thrill,

Thanks for sharing those insights. Getting creative is definitely where I'm heading, but it really helps to have a starting point that has worked well already!

I really like that rightside/leftside approach you mentioined. I have several other processors I could use for that (PCM 41, TC M5000, Eventide, etc.).

BTW, I did try the pcm42 in the FX loop of my guitar stack (Peavy 5150) and DID NOT like it at all -- sounds much better tracking the guitar dry and adding PCM42 via the console !!!

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by sage691

Thrill,

Thanks for sharing those insights. Getting creative is definitely where I'm heading, but it really helps to have a starting point that has worked well already!

I really like that rightside/leftside approach you mentioined. I have several other processors I could use for that (PCM 41, TC M5000, Eventide, etc.).

BTW, I did try the pcm42 in the FX loop of my guitar stack (Peavy 5150) and DID NOT like it at all -- sounds much better tracking the guitar dry and adding PCM42 via the console !!!

That's alot of cool gear there.thumbsup

Yeah the cool part of mixing is being creative within a certain given parameter. Sometimes you want to go straight up and other times you gotta think outside the box. Knowing when and how is i guess what seperates people.

I forgot to mention that part of the reason the PCM 42 is loved on a lead vocal is that if you want that modern upfront vocal sound that sounds super dry but isn't you need to create ambience that doesn't push the vocal back. Delays work great for this and the PCM 42's are a natural with their rolled off top which helps it blend so nicely.

The PCM 42 distortion thing is usually added in the mix anyway.

[sage691]

Originally Posted by thethrillfactor

That's alot of cool gear there.thumbsup

Yeah the cool part of mixing is being creative within a certain given parameter. Sometimes you want to go straight up and other times you gotta think outside the box. Knowing when and how is i guess what seperates people.

I forgot to mention that part of the reason the PCM 42 is loved on a lead vocal is that if you want that modern upfront vocal sound that sounds super dry but isn't you need to create ambience that doesn't push the vocal back. Delays work great for this and the PCM 42's are a natural with their rolled off top which helps it blend so nicely.

The PCM 42 distortion thing is usually added in the mix anyway.

So even just inserting the pcm42 on a mono vocal would have this effect ?

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by sage691

So even just inserting the pcm42 on a mono vocal would have this effect ?

Yeah.

But i would probably use it and your Eventide in combination(Dual H910s or micro pitch shift delay) on a vocal lead.

I would use the Eventide for the up close aspect(you will have to EQ it as well) pitch shifted +/- with really short delays panned but not extreme left and right and use the PCM 42 on a longer delay off panned for dry ambience. You have to tuck it just right though and my guess is you will want to automate it as well.

[vernier]

Reverb units already have pre-delay, you'd use a 42 to live chamber. Other than that, the modulation is the only neat thing about them.