Stripped-down analog mixer with FADERS - recommendation?

[666666]

I'm looking for a NEW (not used) analog mixer, but something relatively small physically, and with FADERS (as opposed to tiny knobs). I just need, for each channel: level control, pan, mute, solo and individual direct outs... and master summed stereo outs of course. Since I already have loads of eqs, comps and mic pres etc, I do not want or need such in a mixer. I also have a plan for adding tons of aux outs, and don't really need subgroups (though a few subgroups would be nice but not necessary).

Some units I know I like are the Manley 16X2 mixer and the API 8200A... depending on my sonic mood... these units pretty much do what I need to do without excess, plus they're nice and small, but these units have tiny knobs... and I really want faders. I contacted API, unfortunately the 8200A cannot be fitted with faders. Serious bummer. I think it might be possible to hang faders off a Manley but not certain.

There are a lot of nice small "summing" mixers and other small analog mixers out now, but to my knowledge, there is nothing that really fits my requirement... or am I forgetting any?

Again, in sum (pun intended), what I need is basically a rack of four linked API 8200 units (for 32 channels), but with nice FADERS (accessory fader pack) as opposed to tiny knobs... that simple. Does anyone make such an animal?

Must be ultra top notch in terms of sonics... I did play around with a Soundcraft Ghost once, real nice for what it is, but I'm looking for more of an API level unit.

I know many here have expressed wanting to have eqs etc in analog mixers, and it seems that most available analog mixers WITH faders DO have eqs and other goodies in them... this makes the units a bit over-budget for me, makes them bigger and heavier too... and I don't NEED the extra eqs, frills, etc since I'm already well stocked with outboard.

I guess I must be in the minority here in terms of mixer needs. Some feel that the popular smaller analog mixers of today (API 8200, SSL Rack etc) are just fine, and that small knobs (as opposed to faders) are adequate... but I believe most of those people do their level adjustments IN the BOX, and/or use the box's automation. However, I like to run analog outboard on almost every channel, and I like setting and riding my levels OUTSIDE the box... like in the old days... good ole' fashion FADER riding... seat of the pants style... yeeehaaaaa... I'm pretty good at it when using faders, but just try working this way with super tiny knobs... super difficult, it becomes very frustrating after a short period... especially if you have big fingers and bad eyesite. Need faders.

If such doesn't exist yet, any rumors of anything under development?

[thethrillfactor]

Originally Posted by 666666

I'm looking for a NEW (not used) analog mixer, but something relatively small physically, and with FADERS (as opposed to tiny knobs). I just need, for each channel: level control, pan, mute, solo and individual direct outs... and master summed stereo outs of course. Since I already have loads of eqs, comps and mic pres etc, I do not want or need such in a mixer. I also have a plan for adding tons of aux outs, and don't really need subgroups (though a few subgroups would be nice but not necessary).

Some units I know I like are the Manley 16X2 mixer and the API 8200A... depending on my sonic mood... these units pretty much do what I need to do without excess, plus they're nice and small, but these units have tiny knobs... and I really want faders. I contacted API, unfortunately the 8200A cannot be fitted with faders. Serious bummer. I think it might be possible to hang faders off a Manley but not certain.

There are a lot of nice small "summing" mixers and other small analog mixers out now, but to my knowledge, there is nothing that really fits my requirement... or am I forgetting any?

Again, in sum (pun intended), what I need is basically a rack of four linked API 8200 units (for 32 channels), but with nice FADERS (accessory fader pack) as opposed to tiny knobs... that simple. Does anyone make such an animal?

Must be ultra top notch in terms of sonics... I did play around with a Soundcraft Ghost once, real nice for what it is, but I'm looking for more of an API level unit.

I know many here have expressed wanting to have eqs etc in analog mixers, and it seems that most available analog mixers WITH faders DO have eqs and other goodies in them... this makes the units a bit over-budget for me, makes them bigger and heavier too... and I don't NEED the extra eqs, frills, etc since I'm already well stocked with outboard.

I guess I must be in the minority here in terms of mixer needs. Some feel that the popular smaller analog mixers of today (API 8200, SSL Rack etc) are just fine, and that small knobs (as opposed to faders) are adequate... but I believe most of those people do their level adjustments IN the BOX, and/or use the box's automation. However, I like to run analog outboard on almost every channel, and I like setting and riding my levels OUTSIDE the box... like in the old days... good ole' fashion FADER riding... seat of the pants style... yeeehaaaaa... I'm pretty good at it when using faders, but just try working this way with super tiny knobs... super difficult, it becomes very frustrating after a short period... especially if you have big fingers and bad eyesite. Need faders.

If such doesn't exist yet, any rumors of anything under development?

Speck Lilo, Tonelux mixer and the Aurora Audio mixer.

[atticus]

Speck LiLo

[Stitch333]

8816 with an 8804 pack

[crypticglobe]

Originally Posted by Stitch333

8816 with an 8804 pack

Hmmmm.. I think he wanted it to sound good, work properly, and not fall apart as it's coming out of the box. I know he didn't say that... but I am just guessing.

I would say the speck LiLo too.

p.s. Don't get me wrong... I love some of what Neve is doing these days... but the 8816 and 8804.... big oops.

[ekadek]

hi 666666 (got enuff 6's there?) i can make you something.
take a look at these mixers and check back.
i got terrific neve b535 stereo summing boards - all discrete - very fat.
and this mixmaster is example of how it might look - but whatever suits is ok .
i make things custom and dont go ahead until everyone is on board.
this mixer has a pultec mb1 output stage.
it also has a control room monitor section.

[IMG]******//ekadek.com/wp-content/images/sugar_mix_may.jpg[/IMG]

[John Moran]

Originally Posted by crypticglobe

Hmmmm.. I think he wanted it to sound good, work properly, and not fall apart as it's coming out of the box.

that's an interesting response. i haven't played with the little neve so I have no first hand experience either way but have had an interest in it since it was released. what makes you say it's not well built? i'm sure neve charges like it's supposed to be well built.

[crypticglobe]

Originally Posted by John Moran

that's an interesting response. i haven't played with the little neve so I have no first hand experience either way but have had an interest in it since it was released. what makes you say it's not well built? i'm sure neve charges like it's supposed to be well built.

I know a few people that bought them. I have read the reviews on here. I have seen them on Ebay. I think of all (first and second hand) that I know and have read, that there is only 1 guy really happy with his... and he still admitted that the build quality sucked. Most everyone I can think of sold theirs pretty quickly.

I have played with one briefly myself... I wasn't that impressed sonically... and the build quality DEFINITELY sucked.

JMTC...

[666666]

Tech question.... let's just say I wanted to add a fader pack into the audio path BEFORE an analog mixer. What's wrong with doing that? Want comments / opinions here please.

For example: take an API 8200A... for each channel of your mix, the signal would exit the DAW's DA converter, then go into say an analog compressor, then go into say an analog eq, then go into one FADER of a custom stand-alone analog fader pack, THEN go into an input of the 8200A to be summed.

One problem I can see with doing this is that when you would pull the fader down low or all the way down, the self-noise of the mixer channel (in this case the 8200A) would still be in the mix. You can only reduce the signal going INTO the 8200A channel, not coming out of it, at least with the faders. Then again, if you are using your DAW to control levels as many people do, this same "problem" would exist anyway with any "outside the box" analog mixer or summing unit.

Other than the issue described in the above paragraph, are there any other reasons to NOT add an external fader pack in the audio path BEFORE an analog mixer?

Note... in the above example, you could STILL use the 8200A's mute and level control for channels that are to be muted or run at very low levels, in order to reduce self noise of the mixer. In fact, initially, you could keep all faders of the custom fader pack at unity, then create an initial mix using the 8200A's tiny level knobs... and THEN use the custom faders after that point only for precision adjustments and "on the fly" fader riding during a mix. This type of strategy would minimize mixer self noise as the mixer's actual output knobs would be kept at a minimum per track... and as long as you do not need any sudden big boosts on those given tracks, this should be ok I'd think.

Gee, if this would work ok, it would then be possible to build a simple compact custom stand-alone fader pack, with say XLR or DB25 I/O connections, and then use it with ANY of your small analog mixers - would be universal - can take it from your Manley 16X2 to your API 8200 system to your Speck Xsum, etc, etc, etc... I'm starting to get goose bumps... sounding too good to be true.

So what am I missing here? There must be a reason why this is not yet being done on a grand scale. I supposed I am foolishly overlooking an important issue. Please fill me in. Many thanks.

[John Moran]

Originally Posted by crypticglobe

I know a few people that bought them. I have read the reviews on here. I have seen them on Ebay. I think of all (first and second hand) that I know and have read, that there is only 1 guy really happy with his... and he still admitted that the build quality sucked. Most everyone I can think of sold theirs pretty quickly.

I have played with one briefly myself... I wasn't that impressed sonically... and the build quality DEFINITELY sucked.

JMTC...

well, that's a shame. gotta like these forums for the feedback on stuff like this, saves some time and trouble and definitely gives something to watch for if i evaluate one. that is just a shame because it looks great on paper, too bad the execution isn't there. i have other things that would come first but something like that was in the cue for a classical location type rig to replace a neve 5442 8x2 i sold. it's got to be able to stand up to transit. oh well....

thanks.

[Stitch333]

Originally Posted by crypticglobe

Hmmmm.. I think he wanted it to sound good, work properly, and not fall apart as it's coming out of the box. I know he didn't say that... but I am just guessing.

I would say the speck LiLo too.

p.s. Don't get me wrong... I love some of what Neve is doing these days... but the 8816 and 8804.... big oops.

wow! news to me...

I like the looks of the LiLo myself