Compression and Eq on mix good or bad?

[Robert]

Hi Everybody

I am trying to find out. Do most studios use compression and eq during mix on the master channel or not? What if you send it somewhere to be mastered will this mess up the mastering process? Right now I am using a C2 I am thinking about buying 8200 EQ. If there a favorite uncolored EQ out there? Feedback always greatly appreciated from everybody.....

[jbuntz]

The way i see it is, if you can eq a mix and get it to sound better, go fix the tracks that it's improving. Leave the final eqing to the mastering engineer. A lot of times when people put a compressor on the 2-buss, maybe hanging around 1 dB GR. It can make a fairly notable difference but can screw a mix if you're not careful.

[Musiclab]

If you start your mix with the 2 bus compressor in your hearing what you are doing. If its too squashed you should be able to tell. Whereas if you don't
compress the mix as you go, when you get to mastering, the level will change. I prefer to mix into a compressor lightly and not eq the entire mix, just whatever I think needs it in the track .That I would prefer to be done in mastering. It seems to me if your eqing the individual tracks, and the mix
where does the mastering guy have to go, unless he's undoing what you did.
Thats a whole lot of phase shift if you ask me

[kittonian]

I generally eq the individual tracks if needed (roll off on the heavier guitars around 125hz or so, etc.) and check the mix by putting it through a limiter to see where everything sits (sort of like what will happen during mastering), BUT, i never print a mix that is going to mastering with anything on the master fader. The mix should sound great with just the tracks playing through. That'll let the mastering engineer work his black magic. That is why it's going to mastering after all right?

[StuartMac]

Well, I'm going to disagree!! I reckon you should get your mix as close as you can to what you ultimately want to hear. Compressing the mix 1 or 2dBs helps glue the whole thing together - this gives the mastering guy something DIFFERENT to work with than an un-compressed mix. As far as I can see, as long as you know what you are doing with it it makes for a more coherent mix.

Again, a couple of dBs of top and bottom, maybe a little cut around 1 - 2k - if it makes the mix sound better in your control room and you're using a good eq unit, then why not?

A good mastering engineer will want you to bring the best possible mix to him, I think. There's sometimes no NEED for them to eq the mix unless there's a flaw somewhere. Mastering isn't a black art, it's just finding someone with great ears, great monitors and a great room who has the skill and knowledge to know what to alter IF NECESSARY!

I loved having my stuff really well mastered recently - but it doesn't mean I'm going to sit and mix knowing that it needs a lot more top end or whatever, or knowing what cuts I'D like to make. I believe I'll get my mixes sounding as good as I possibly can in my place and feel comfortable taking it elsewhere for whatever is needed later.

Looking forward to the Ibis arriving for that very reason next week - and I'm STILL looking forward to having stuff mastered in a studio which also uses one!

[Saturator]

Do whatchwanado to make the mix sound good. EQ it, compress it, distort it, whatever. Don't let no ME prevent you from expressing yourself. It's all good.

[Boogle]

The safe bet is to print with and without mix buss eq/comp. It will at least give you and maybe the ME a better idea of direction.

[Jay Kahrs]

If I want compression on the mix I'll print with it. Printing without and adding it later changes the balances, and then I gotta ask what the point of mixing was. EQ is different, I might print with a bit of top if I know that it's a demo thing and it won't be properly mastered. Or, if it's a poppy sounding record and it needs to super bright I might add some top before it hits mastering but I'll leave enough room for the ME to add whatever they see fit.

[kevinc]

Somehow I think if a mastering engineer is compressing so much that the levels between different intstruments vary that dramatically I`d want to try someone else.

A couple of db isn`t going to throw the mix off that much and an experienced ME should be looking out for that sort of thing and either not allow it to happen in the first place or compensate for it after.

Personally I leave the compression off until mastering.(even self mastering)
Theres enough to worry about as it is without screwing that up.

This doesn`t apply to people who are really good at it or if it`s part of your sound.

I just think that if your not particularly adept at it your better off treating it as something seperate you do after. Theres so many things that can change within the course of the mix and if you aren`t carefull you can end up doing some weird things you weren`t even looking out for.

[djui5]

Originally posted by mdbeh
None of which is to say that you 'have' to use 2 buss compression. But if I'm going to use it, I want it on early.

Sierously.....nothing like getting a good mix to find out when you strap on a 2 buss that it all changes...sucks.

[thethrillfactor]

Originally posted by mdbeh
But if I'm going to use it, I want it on early.

You know its funny, but over the last year i've kinda gone back to strapping it on towards the end.

I think it helps me decide if i need it or not much quicker.

I think at times people start to mix to it and not the music itself.

I also use very high thresholds and the lowest ratio possible to "kiss" the mix slightly.

[StuartMac]

Originally posted by thethrillfactor
You know its funny, but over the last year i've kinda gone back to strapping it on towards the end.

I think it helps me decide if i need it or not much quicker.

I think at times people start to mix to it and not the music itself.

I also use very high thresholds and the lowest ratio possible to "kiss" the mix slightly.

Ditto. To the extent that when I mix into the much-maligned compressor on the VT747, the meter does almost nothing almost all the time, but the blue light is working away. More importantly there is a substantial audible difference - the whole mix DOES fatten up and "glue" together. This leaves plenty room for an ME to do his thing, but gives me the mix I want. It's not so much a level thing as a thickening thing.

I had problems at first with the VT747 because of the metering, until I learned to ignore it and just listen to what it was doing instead. I have no idea how much reduction is going on - 1dB on peaks, maybe? - but I like how it sounds.

FWIW I have found I have to treat the compressor on the 747 differently from any other 2-buss compressor I have used.

[faeflora]

I like getting a mix nice and clean and clear without 2 bus compression or eq on.

After the mix is set, I put on the comp and mess around and try to decide if it works for the song or not. I adore compression and mix compression is always tremendously exciting. As others already wrote, small setting changes can do big things and it can really affect the impact of a song a lot. It doesn't suck for me to hear a change. I expect it and mix in a way that's mindful of the compressor being patched in at the end. Eventually, I'll get my two Telefunken U73B's back from TAB-Funkenwerk with a bunch of mods and a Varicom (yeah!) and I will have so much fun sidechaining and varicomming and and and yahhhhh!

Regarding eq, usually if I want to eq after the mix is set up, I've f'd up somewhere and need to start over. For some tracks it can be nice, like for example on just acoustic guitar and vocals where a overall high end boost helps keep the part balances coherent but make the entire song a bit brighter.

I don't have much gear, just a few choice pieces. One of those pieces is an 8200 and it's always great on the top frequencies. It has tremendous frequency bandwidth and if there's "air" to be boosted, it can boost it without unpleasantness. I haven't heard the Ibis, but I have Trakkers and had a Flamingo, and both pieces of gear have a simmilar "glassy" and "smooth" sound on the high frequencies to my ears. I'd like to try an Ibis as if it has a simmilar tonal quality as the Flamingo and Trakker, it might be a very useful eq for mix eq.

[Wiggy Neve Slut]

Im one for getting the mix as best as possible before the ME has thier way with the mateial.

I do not subscribe to 'letting the ME' do their thing cos

a) They have better and more expensive gear than me

b) Im unsure of what eq and comp will do to the material

I'll do whatever it takes to beat, bash, shape the songs into a cohesive entity and if EQ'ing and Compressing a mix means thats what it will take then so it shall be. To quote Slippy last time he was down our way ' i need to subjagate the mix so its MY BITCH and im 100% in control' .. thats my approach to mixing..lol

Altho as much as i love my compression their are times when i get wise and relax or use none @ all.

As far EQ goes.. well the GML is pretty damn cool and flexible, but their is one thing to remember with that puppy.. if you are looking for some nice 'air' it has to be there in the firstplace.. cos its dont add any 'Ju Ju' like some of our more famous 2 buss eq's like Massive, Avalons, pultecs etc.

There are too many cool 2 buss eq and comps to mention... arghh hwo am i gona afford them all?

Cheers
Wiggy

[StuartMac]

Hey Wiggy - got any Expounders left you want rid of?

[Robert]

One thing I have noticed rock drums if you use compression early. Something like the C2 you hear more detail sounds crashes, hihat etc the mix has more life.
IF IT SOUNDS GREAT TO YOUR EARS there shouldn't be a problem right.

[Bob Olhsson]

Originally posted by Robert
...
IF IT SOUNDS GREAT TO YOUR EARS there shouldn't be a problem right.

Unfortunately, we get paid to insure that it sounds great to OTHER peoples' ears!

The facts of life is that most recordings are going to have the grunt compressed out of them after they leave the mastering engineer's hands. The real question is how can we keep downstream compression from damaging the musical balance?

My experience has been that the answer is very careful mixing and dynamics control over every element of the mix. Anytime overall compression can alter the balance significantly, more compression can only alter it more. In other words, it's better to mix with a mixer than with a compressor.

Should one use overall compression? The answer is carefully and only when an average level-matched comparison shows that it is helping and not hurting the sound. Anything sounds better louder including something that sounds worse. Unfortunately we can't control the volume people listen at but we can control how bad it sounds.