Wunder Audio PAFour (or PA4) vs. API 3124+

[gundling]

Okay okay... I AM aware that there are already multiple discussions on this topic. I am going to try to be very specific in my question so I don't get the whole 60% of people for API, 10% for Wunder, 10% for random other pre's result... deal?

If you have experience with both the API 3124 (or 512c) and the Wunder Audio PAFour you are going to be most valuable here.

I am eventually looking to add BOTH to my tracking rig, but in the meantime, I have the opportunity to purchase one or the other right now. I am looking to track drums in the near future and have the mics.

Question: for tracking POP R'n'b and rock in general, which would you suggest more immediately? Which one would you go for first to track drums? (I'm thinking using the overheads through my Grace Model 101s and Kick/Snare/toms through Wunder/API... )

The Wunder I've heard adds great color while the API 3124 really just has the most punch one can get from a Kick and Snare. But I think these are rock specific requirements (chalk this up to lack of experience) and depends on the style you want.

Any advice here would be greatly appreciated...

Thanks!

Rob

[Ricey]

i'd like to hear what people have to say as well. i have the 3124 and plan to compliment it eventually with a different set of 4 pres. looking at the PAFour.

i will say that i'm glad i started with the 3124, it sounds either good or great on every instrument in any application. no-brainer.

[cww2]

I have 512b's and c's... and Wunder PEQ1r's..... I generally like the API's on kick, snare, toms - and the Wunders on OH's. Their both great and work well for most everything I track in addition to the drums.

[dillweed]

They're both great.
i've owned both.

but you know you are going to hear a much bigger difference if you buy some different kick drums and snares and have them around. get some different heads, drum beaters, treatments......
get to know the instrument better. you will get along with drummers better as you can speak the same language. drummers will love you and you'll get more bookings.

The differences between high end preamps is really quite subtle. while different drums, mics, micing techniques, eq's.....ect. can make an enormous difference.

[Ricey]

i'm curious, is the EQ in the PEQ1r bypassable? if not, i suppose it wouldn't be a direct comparison to the PAFour...

also, since i'm looking for a compliment to the 3124: i consider the API to be a 'fast' pre, would anyone classify the Wunder as a 'slow' pre?

or should i look to the Vintech for that? i want 4 more pres in one rack space.

[gundling]

ricey, dillweed, cww2.... Guys, thanks for the info and thoughts.

ricey, I think I'm with you as far as the Wunder actually being a compliment to the API 3124 (I've read a lot of opinion that it is slower - can someone confirm?)

dillweed, I think you've nailed it: we're really comparing granny smith apples to golden delicious apples at this point. The more threads I've read have lead me to believe that differences in the drums, mics, and personal mixing preference have a lot to do with who likes what better and the fact remains that they are both very good pre's. Many people get both.

That said, it seems easier to unload a 3124 on eBay or gs because more people know about it... but it also seems if you're a die hard gearhead the Wunder will stick with you a while, like most people with their 3124s.

Just comes down to dollars I guess...

Rob

[gabetx26]

I own both units and with my current drum setup I prefer to use the wunder pafour on overheads and the api 3124 on toms, so of course I'm going to suggest you get the api first since toms are what you need them for at this moment. I have A/B'd both units on toms and thought they both sounded phenomenal, to my ears I found the wunder had a little more going on in the bottom end while the api had a little more snap to it, however neither of them were lacking in either aspect. The reason I chose the api's for toms has more to do with functionality rather than aesthetics. I find the api is more tweakable when used in close mic'd situations such as recording toms. Hope this helps a little.

[gundling]

yes it does... thanks for that input. that's exactly what I'm looking for. What about application for Kick and Snare? Apples to apples?

as ricey asked before, would you say the Wunder is "slower" than the API?

[cww2]

Originally Posted by Ricey

i'm curious, is the EQ in the PEQ1r bypassable?

It is -

[thesteve]

Listen to dillweed.... I know this is gearslutz... but I get so much work because of my ability to tune drums, chose heads, and use different micing combinations and techniques. I have 2 x 512 c's, 4 x 212s (in my 7600's) and have
rented the Wunder pafour a few times the differences are subtle in some cases, and dramatic in others... it really depends on the source. The wunder is great for overheads and rooms, but depending on the kit, the guitar, or the player I may reach for the API's, Millenias, Great Riverss or Chandlers....
but seriously, if you are going to focus on tracking, and getting solid beds down, worry about how well you can get the drums sounding in the room and you will be happy with either the api or the wunder.

[gabetx26]

Originally Posted by gundling

as ricey asked before, would you say the Wunder is "slower" than the API?

I can understand how one would perceive the wunder to be "slower" because of it's extended low end. I'm not sure if that's exactly the answer you were looking for but to my ears the wunder seems to make the same drum hit resonate a tad longer than the api.

[max cooper]

I have both. I tend to use up all the channels in the PA Four before I go to API, but I guess it's a matter of preference. PA Four sounds a lot more dynamic and seems to have more clarity.

[gundling]

gabetx26, thesteve, max cooper... Many thanks guys... This was REALLY informative.

gabe, thanks for the further explanation of the extended low end giving a slower sound. I think that is a fair way of looking at it.

max, dood, appreciate your perspective as well. I was thinking this just comes down to preference and probably how your converters deal with the signal as well.

thesteve... I couldn't agree more. I always tell people you can't polish a turd. Dead on - you are only as good as your source. I think the gap with this price range and quality of preamps is really narrow and these threads really capture that, the the point of getting people discussing the source. I appreciate that a lot.

Summing it up, those who have both the API 3124+/512c and the Wunder Audio PAFour feel that these units both accomplish similar tasks, the API being a bit punchier (or "more snappy") and the Wunder a bit more robust in low end and sustain clarity. Both are considered "fast" preamps as opposed to the great rivers / avalons / vintechs of the world. (please feel free to stone me here if my comparison is crap) Both make a great addition to the studio for a similar price.

I think I'm going to buy the Wunder first and look for a good deal on the API when someone else is done with theirs. Seems like the APIs are a bit easier to find used. The only thing wacky about the Wunder is the goofy outboard power supply. I guess I understand since it can power 8 units... but it would be nice to have a small one when you only have 1 rack space unit.

Thanks again all!
Rob

[DanRock101]

I know that this is an old thread but, dude, GET BOTH! With both you can cover every EVERYTHING (maybe you need something WAY more Neve-esque or something Millennia/Grace/True-esque)....

GET EM BOTH!